British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Can anyone confirm/deny the rumour that has surfaced on the passenger forum that DH has found employment with Unite? This can't be true!
£600,000 for shop stewards fired over Gate Gourmet strike | Business | The Guardian
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mohitomaster
Oh dear, yet more (deliberate?) misunderstanding of basic facts. As has been pointed out, the monthly payment IS contractual. Also, non-pensionable certainly does NOT mean non-contractual. It replaces an element of allowances which were never pensionable, so why would it suddenly become so?
2. Top up monthly payment is not contractual ( otherwise it would have formed a non pensionable top up to your basic salary).
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Dutch Star
I really feel for you as I know what its like! I like you am happy to do my own thing
downroute, its just the long flights that make it unpleasant to work in.
Like you say, alot of this starts in the briefing room, a shame all of our SCCm can't act professional!
I really feel for you as I know what its like! I like you am happy to do my own thing
downroute, its just the long flights that make it unpleasant to work in.
Like you say, alot of this starts in the briefing room, a shame all of our SCCm can't act professional!
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temps
Hi ptc
I'm wondering how a SCCM would know that you are a temp? Does it have a different code next to your name on the briefing sheet? If so, perhaps it is worth asking the company to remove it until Mixed fleet is up and running. The crew usually all receive a copy of the briefing sheet and are so sharp eyed that they won't need to have it pointed out that you are a temp. Speak to your manager and explain that it is causing you a problem; I'm sure they can sort it for you.
Regards
OG
I'm wondering how a SCCM would know that you are a temp? Does it have a different code next to your name on the briefing sheet? If so, perhaps it is worth asking the company to remove it until Mixed fleet is up and running. The crew usually all receive a copy of the briefing sheet and are so sharp eyed that they won't need to have it pointed out that you are a temp. Speak to your manager and explain that it is causing you a problem; I'm sure they can sort it for you.
Regards
OG
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Hi Ottergirl
Well there are a couple of things on the briefing sheet that indicate we are temp. First we have a number 2 ( not a problem for WW but EF all other crew have an S), the fact that we have no seniority and finally our ratings show as 7477A3(or something similar to that). Originally when we started we also had EXP next to our name! This was removed as we told our manager about this. But I very much doubt they can get rid of the other things!! Thanks for the thought though!
Well there are a couple of things on the briefing sheet that indicate we are temp. First we have a number 2 ( not a problem for WW but EF all other crew have an S), the fact that we have no seniority and finally our ratings show as 7477A3(or something similar to that). Originally when we started we also had EXP next to our name! This was removed as we told our manager about this. But I very much doubt they can get rid of the other things!! Thanks for the thought though!
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So many of you think the monthly payment is contractual? we will see. Bill stated it on the BA forum, so it must be true. Variable pay is by definition variable. Where in the actual offer does it state (mmp) is contractual?. Someone else stated what's new in having no promotion. Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to rememeber (LH). The 1st purser was removed through negotiation( upper deck). The club purser removal was imposed. The likely removal of 1st / WT purser is also very likely to be imposed. Hence no viable future promotion for crew. This was not the case 2 years ago, when long term commitment was recognised and rewarded. I have waited my turn, done nothing wrong, been a model proud employee and feel pretty angry at being treated in such an off hand manner. I joined on the 97 contract. I have never complained about colleagues earning more than me. I signed a contract, which I thought was binding. It now seems under Walsh, that it was not worth the paper it was written on.
Anyway. Back to my original question. I need advice. To quit or not to quit? Do you think there is still future and a career within BA for cabin crew? Could it possibly get better? or do you think it's just going to get worse? It really is a big step quitting a job you love. Thankyou
Anyway. Back to my original question. I need advice. To quit or not to quit? Do you think there is still future and a career within BA for cabin crew? Could it possibly get better? or do you think it's just going to get worse? It really is a big step quitting a job you love. Thankyou
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ptc
In which case there is nothing to do but meet it head on. As an SCCM, I think you temps would have the upper hand in these circumstances. Make a note on the back of the briefing sheet of anything that is said in the briefing so that you can refer to it later. Believe me, the sight of you writing some notes will quell the stroppiness of many a long-haul CSD - they will be nice as pie to you after that! There will be trips when a few sad people don't want to go out with you, (there was people like that before this all started!) but you may find the Flight crew to be more sociable anyway. Its only a few weeks to the launch of the new fleet and, in the meantime, you can console yourselves that you will never have to fly with them again whereas I and Bettygirl and many others are stuck with them for eternity!
Happy flying
OG
Happy flying
OG
Last edited by ottergirl; 24th Aug 2010 at 21:54.
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Back to my original question. I need advice. To quit or not to quit? Do you think there is still future and a career within BA for cabin crew? Could it possibly get better? or do you think it's just going to get worse? It really is a big step quitting a job you love. Thankyou
Why throw it all away on something that may or may not come true?
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mohitomaster
You say you signed a contract that you thought was binding, and that variable pay by definition is variable. Therefore, you should have no problem with the changes they are proposing with the 'top up payment'? as it is in essence going to replace your variable pay if our work should dry up, and you claim variable pay is not contractual?
I believe the that the 'top up payment' is contractual because our head of department has said so in writing and I have no reason to think he's lying?
In answer to your question, I agree with ottergirl, if you still enjoy the job then stay. None of us really know what the future holds but if you still love the job why not hang around to find out?
You say you signed a contract that you thought was binding, and that variable pay by definition is variable. Therefore, you should have no problem with the changes they are proposing with the 'top up payment'? as it is in essence going to replace your variable pay if our work should dry up, and you claim variable pay is not contractual?
I believe the that the 'top up payment' is contractual because our head of department has said so in writing and I have no reason to think he's lying?
In answer to your question, I agree with ottergirl, if you still enjoy the job then stay. None of us really know what the future holds but if you still love the job why not hang around to find out?
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Didn't Project Columbus that wonderful invention of those militant union bods two years ago say that after the introduction of the new fleet there would be no further promotions on the existing fleets? And here we are. Weren't you all saying then that this was nonsense? Look back at your posts then as I have. You called it "pathetic scaremongering" "ridiculous nonsense" "more rubbish" "BASSA misinformation"
And here we are two years on and we have NewFleet the project Columbus incarnate.
I think that means an end to career advancement unless I'm reading it wrong again. No doubt I'll be corrected by a pilot with an irrational fear of anyone else's union (bassaphobia) or someone who cannot believe that BA would ever do anything other than leave choccies on their pillow every night eh Choccybox?
And here we are two years on and we have NewFleet the project Columbus incarnate.
I think that means an end to career advancement unless I'm reading it wrong again. No doubt I'll be corrected by a pilot with an irrational fear of anyone else's union (bassaphobia) or someone who cannot believe that BA would ever do anything other than leave choccies on their pillow every night eh Choccybox?
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Mixed Fleet
Dear asperge,
Didn't BA offer a deal last year where a new fleet was ruled out? And didn't the union (BASSA) refuse to negotiate? Furthermore, didn't the union (UNITE) decide to accept the new fleet in the last round of talks?
I for one am delighted that BASSA intransigence (and Unite common sense) have helped bring about Mixed Fleet, where crew will work because they want to do the job, want to provide outstanding customer service, and want BA to regain its former glory. I am also delighted that it will be separated from the miserable and destructive mindset of some of the less progressive existing crew.
If you can't face this future go and look for another somewhere else.
Didn't BA offer a deal last year where a new fleet was ruled out? And didn't the union (BASSA) refuse to negotiate? Furthermore, didn't the union (UNITE) decide to accept the new fleet in the last round of talks?
I for one am delighted that BASSA intransigence (and Unite common sense) have helped bring about Mixed Fleet, where crew will work because they want to do the job, want to provide outstanding customer service, and want BA to regain its former glory. I am also delighted that it will be separated from the miserable and destructive mindset of some of the less progressive existing crew.
If you can't face this future go and look for another somewhere else.
Last edited by Wheezyjet; 25th Aug 2010 at 05:15. Reason: Syntax
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Wheezyjet. Very sad, that you think this way. I can say hand on heart that the vast majority if crew I have worked with over the years have been professional and committed to the extreme. In fact the high standards have and continue to be reflected in the high GPM scores, and personal letters of thanks that are regularly received from passengers. I suggest you fly more as a passenger, and look around at the real people that do the job and observe. Even throughout this lengthy dispute, where some crew who are virtually bankrupt, with huge levels of stress, most still manage to provide outstanding customer service with a smile on their face.
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mohitomaster
Your view is highly subjective and a little rose-tinted. The crew you describe do exist but are often intimidated into a different position by the BASSA-mentalists.
Your view is highly subjective and a little rose-tinted. The crew you describe do exist but are often intimidated into a different position by the BASSA-mentalists.
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Chigly, the problem is that at present, a large chunk of our salary is route dependent, and you can realistically achieve a good top up, over the course of a year. Take away the LRP's, and ETP, you are looking at 20-30% reduction in pay. I do not believe for 1 minute, that the MMP will be paid for life. If fact If I was a bookies I would offer odds at 10:1 against it being paid for more than 5 years.
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Mohitomaster
The 'top up payment' as an average is fair I would say. I personally have added up all my CAT, LDP and ERP for the last 12 months and will be better off, only slightly. This is mainly because of the way I bid and I dare say some will be slightly worse off. However, this payment is only in place should your pay fall below the average figure - therefore there is still potential to earn more.
I guess the fact you are taking bets on when it will cease to exist and I and many other crew who have accepted it for what it is - a good offer! seems to highlight the difference between the strikers and the crew that went to work. Personally my cup is always half full. You, me and especially BASSA do not have a chrystal ball to see into the future so cannot predict what may or may not happen, we can just accept and act on what is happening now.
To pinch ottergirls statement earlier "why throw it all away on something that may or may not come true"?
You sound to me like someone who is really torn because you fear for your future in a job you clearly still love. Why not just see how things pan out, leaving in five years time will be no different to leaving now...........at least you'll get five more years doing the job you love, and who knows it could be far longer?
The 'top up payment' as an average is fair I would say. I personally have added up all my CAT, LDP and ERP for the last 12 months and will be better off, only slightly. This is mainly because of the way I bid and I dare say some will be slightly worse off. However, this payment is only in place should your pay fall below the average figure - therefore there is still potential to earn more.
I guess the fact you are taking bets on when it will cease to exist and I and many other crew who have accepted it for what it is - a good offer! seems to highlight the difference between the strikers and the crew that went to work. Personally my cup is always half full. You, me and especially BASSA do not have a chrystal ball to see into the future so cannot predict what may or may not happen, we can just accept and act on what is happening now.
To pinch ottergirls statement earlier "why throw it all away on something that may or may not come true"?
You sound to me like someone who is really torn because you fear for your future in a job you clearly still love. Why not just see how things pan out, leaving in five years time will be no different to leaving now...........at least you'll get five more years doing the job you love, and who knows it could be far longer?
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I would say the same thing Mohitomaster. Things have been pretty unpleasant for a while now. Don't make any rushed decisions, things will settle down eventually and when that happens you will have a better view of how things will be. Also I keep hearing that severance will be offerd again at some stage so if you really want to go then wouldn't it be better to leave with a little something extra?
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PTC -
I'm also a temp who came back last month, and unfortunately I didn't get a place on the mixed fleet. I am completely gutted and demotivated right now as there isn't really a light at the end of my tunnel, so to speak! I was prepared to put up with our standby rosters, harassment from other crew, being ignored by crew etc, as I thought i'd be on the new fleet with positive, like-minded people very soon, but sadly for me this wont be the case. So now I have to work on a fleet which I don't really want to be on, working alongside people who are constantly questioning me and putting me down, whilst a lot of my friends go over to the mixed fleet. I will be reapplying again in 6 months, but right now I feel so down about the whole situation.
I'm also a temp who came back last month, and unfortunately I didn't get a place on the mixed fleet. I am completely gutted and demotivated right now as there isn't really a light at the end of my tunnel, so to speak! I was prepared to put up with our standby rosters, harassment from other crew, being ignored by crew etc, as I thought i'd be on the new fleet with positive, like-minded people very soon, but sadly for me this wont be the case. So now I have to work on a fleet which I don't really want to be on, working alongside people who are constantly questioning me and putting me down, whilst a lot of my friends go over to the mixed fleet. I will be reapplying again in 6 months, but right now I feel so down about the whole situation.