British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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SOS77 said,
The criticisms of BASSA are far and many. Maybe BA could win the hearts and minds of people by not only offering ST back to CC, but by actually making it even better than before. Along side the current proposed changes that are nearly agreed by all accounts,of course. To be honest give me a great working environment any day
The criticisms of BASSA are far and many. Maybe BA could win the hearts and minds of people by not only offering ST back to CC, but by actually making it even better than before. Along side the current proposed changes that are nearly agreed by all accounts,of course. To be honest give me a great working environment any day
SOS77,
I take it you don't work for BA otherwise you would have known that there was a big improvement to Staff Travel last year.
Staff Travel has also been offered back to crew who took industrial action with reduced seniority.
Who knows if they accept the Way Forward agreement which those of us who are non-unionised have, things may change at a later date with regards to Staff Travel.
As for the working environment,that will change when the BASSA militants start behaving like grown ups in a respectable and dignified way. The ball is in their court.
I may have sympathised with them had they not been encouraging their children to stamp on pictures of of our CEO Willie Walsh and other outrageous behaviour.
Perhaps if they had manged a peaceful protest, others in the airline may also have been on their side. No, that wasn't good enough of them. Instead they resorted to bullying, intimidating and behaving like hooligans on picket lines.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 18th Aug 2010 at 13:47.
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Hiflyer.
How can you say you have not been involved in the dispute. Your very cloaked existence is a direct result of an on-going dispute. Are people 'flocking' to your organisation for any other reason than the current dispute. It would be more responsible of your organisation to stop hiding behind walls from where you chuck metaphorical grenades into the cabin crew dispute.
Yet offer no alternative, other than what ever BA say.
Not to mention written press articles and radio/tv interviews with your vocally altered shadows.
Just how are you showing that there is a better way to do business with BA? You are as wet as Bassa leaders are militant. You haven't shown BA anything other than Walsh can not only effectively divide and conquer his departments but also his staff in the same department.
And finally, the fact that bassa haven't challenged your ideas are because you haven't had any, at least not publicly.
How can you say you have not been involved in the dispute. Your very cloaked existence is a direct result of an on-going dispute. Are people 'flocking' to your organisation for any other reason than the current dispute. It would be more responsible of your organisation to stop hiding behind walls from where you chuck metaphorical grenades into the cabin crew dispute.
Yet offer no alternative, other than what ever BA say.
Not to mention written press articles and radio/tv interviews with your vocally altered shadows.
Just how are you showing that there is a better way to do business with BA? You are as wet as Bassa leaders are militant. You haven't shown BA anything other than Walsh can not only effectively divide and conquer his departments but also his staff in the same department.
And finally, the fact that bassa haven't challenged your ideas are because you haven't had any, at least not publicly.
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How can you say you have not been involved in the dispute. Your very cloaked existence is a direct result of an on-going dispute. Are people 'flocking' to your organisation for any other reason than the current dispute.
Yet offer no alternative, other than what ever BA say.
Not to mention written press articles and radio/tv interviews with your vocally altered shadows.
Just how are you showing that there is a better way to do business with BA? You are as wet as Bassa leaders are militant. You haven't shown BA anything other than Walsh can not only effectively divide and conquer his departments but also his staff in the same department.
And finally, the fact that bassa haven't challenged your ideas are because you haven't had any, at least not publicly.
Last edited by Timothy Claypole; 18th Aug 2010 at 15:46.
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Maybe BA could win the hearts and minds of people by not only offering ST back to CC, but by actually making it even better than before.
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Time for the truth!
On a different forum a non striking crew member was having a rant about BASSA hard liners making our lives onboard unpleasant.
Since I strongly feel that this could be dealt with very efficiently I replied with the following statement, which I feel is relevant to this thread and hopefully makes some interesting reading!
Guy and girls,
this is not going to change until we stop being quiet about how we feel.
If each of us non strikers would stop hiding the fact that we indeed did not strike, there would be a shock running through the strikers community realizing that they are actually in the minority.
“Each time you come to a briefing the crew seems to be made up of 100% strikers”
As the trip progresses and depending on who you get to talk to and who trusts you enough, the picture changes dramatically.
But do the hardened strikers get to figure that out?
No, because 9 out of 10 times the non strikers will either keep their mouth shut or even lie in order to keep the peace.
I fully understand that the thought of having people gang up on you is not pleasant.
However, it is statistically highly unlikely that you are the only non striker on a flight.
Now imagine those loudmouth bullies suddenly being confronted with the true numbers of non strikers on each flight.
They soon would have to get it into their brains that they and BASSA do no longer represent the majority of cabin crew and that theirs is a battle that most of us do not want to fight the BASSA way.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not advertising outright confrontation, just the truth.
But unless these hard liners have it thrown into their face they will continue to believe their version of events and they will continue to think that they can give us a hard time.
WE THE NON STRIKERS ARE THE MAJORITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is for THEM to change their mind set, not for us.
A decent union would have begun to do some soul searching a long time ago and asked themselves.
Why are so many people leaving BASSA?
Why are the majority of crew not striking?
Why does every one but BASSA manage to negotiate some kind of deal?
Are we actually representing the concerns of the majority of our cabin crew population,
or just the chosen few on the old contract or pursers and CSD’s?
BUT NOT BASSA! THAY ARE BEGINNING TO ACTUALLY ALIENATE UNITE THEMSELVES.
Unless we stand up for ourselves they will continue with their way of making things worse for all of us.
Next time you are on the plane, think about it.
We are the majority and we should not be intimidated by a self righteous, loud and misinformed minority
Since I strongly feel that this could be dealt with very efficiently I replied with the following statement, which I feel is relevant to this thread and hopefully makes some interesting reading!
Guy and girls,
this is not going to change until we stop being quiet about how we feel.
If each of us non strikers would stop hiding the fact that we indeed did not strike, there would be a shock running through the strikers community realizing that they are actually in the minority.
“Each time you come to a briefing the crew seems to be made up of 100% strikers”
As the trip progresses and depending on who you get to talk to and who trusts you enough, the picture changes dramatically.
But do the hardened strikers get to figure that out?
No, because 9 out of 10 times the non strikers will either keep their mouth shut or even lie in order to keep the peace.
I fully understand that the thought of having people gang up on you is not pleasant.
However, it is statistically highly unlikely that you are the only non striker on a flight.
Now imagine those loudmouth bullies suddenly being confronted with the true numbers of non strikers on each flight.
They soon would have to get it into their brains that they and BASSA do no longer represent the majority of cabin crew and that theirs is a battle that most of us do not want to fight the BASSA way.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not advertising outright confrontation, just the truth.
But unless these hard liners have it thrown into their face they will continue to believe their version of events and they will continue to think that they can give us a hard time.
WE THE NON STRIKERS ARE THE MAJORITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is for THEM to change their mind set, not for us.
A decent union would have begun to do some soul searching a long time ago and asked themselves.
Why are so many people leaving BASSA?
Why are the majority of crew not striking?
Why does every one but BASSA manage to negotiate some kind of deal?
Are we actually representing the concerns of the majority of our cabin crew population,
or just the chosen few on the old contract or pursers and CSD’s?
BUT NOT BASSA! THAY ARE BEGINNING TO ACTUALLY ALIENATE UNITE THEMSELVES.
Unless we stand up for ourselves they will continue with their way of making things worse for all of us.
Next time you are on the plane, think about it.
We are the majority and we should not be intimidated by a self righteous, loud and misinformed minority
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An excellent post flyingsoldier! The non-strikers are the majority, and that really does need to be rammed down the throat of the militant loonies. As a bit of illustration here's a couple of posts I found on another forum, the first shows the mindset of the militant striker on a thread suggesting strikers should not bully temp contract crew:
A lovely person to fly with I'm sure, and I certainly look forward to this highly identifiable individual being managed out of the company. However the second is even more enlightening. Despite the strikers assertions that they are the majority on the crew, that they are united and will shun the nasty flight deck whenever they can to teach them a lesson, it appears this is happening:
Turns out the strikers aren't as widespread as they thought, and they get to wallow in their own misery downroute whilst the rest of the non-strikers enjoy themselves (and no doubt plan where to use their staff travel next!). Take heart non-strikers. Imagine how miserable you would be if you lived the wretched lives of the two individuals I quoted.
s***** l****, they are xxxxx, the oxford english dictionary defines them as so. They are doing our jobs whilst we are in industrial action.
Newsflash that is what a XXXX is.
A horrid word for a horrid person.
Like i said, hope she (and the rest of them ) enjoy the dole. **** them. Blatantly you're not a striker yourself or you wouldn't have this attitude. So shut up you silly wee girl.
Newsflash that is what a XXXX is.
A horrid word for a horrid person.
Like i said, hope she (and the rest of them ) enjoy the dole. **** them. Blatantly you're not a striker yourself or you wouldn't have this attitude. So shut up you silly wee girl.
yeah i agree forza the 767 is the worst every trip i do everyone not just csd, off out with the flight deck, not me its room service for one and the satisfaction i dont have to make polite chit chat with these unsavoury people
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He still doesn't get it.
BASSA - Latest News What a difference an ‘A’ makes Aug 18th, 2010 by admin
BA + UNITE = Militants
Union portrayed as both militant and intransigent; will not reach a deal, in almost two years, with BA management and are seen as being “determined to destroy British Airways”.
Massive inconvenience to public and severe losses for airline.
BAA + UNITE = Moderate
Union portrayed as moderate and reasonable; able to avert a strike and reach a deal within hours with BAA management.
Traveling public caused no inconvenience. No losses for BAA.
It seemed somewhat ironic to see exactly the same union officials that have represent us during our dispute, able to secure a deal to avert the BAA strike so quickly. One minute they are “intransigent militants” the next “reasonable men”.
Unite is the same union, with the same people negotiating, the difference therefore, must be in the “BA” part of the equation, rather than the Unite part.
Perhaps this has revealed who the real “intransigent militants” are - and funnily enough, they are not in our union, they are actually pretending to run an airline.
BA + UNITE = Militants
Union portrayed as both militant and intransigent; will not reach a deal, in almost two years, with BA management and are seen as being “determined to destroy British Airways”.
Massive inconvenience to public and severe losses for airline.
BAA + UNITE = Moderate
Union portrayed as moderate and reasonable; able to avert a strike and reach a deal within hours with BAA management.
Traveling public caused no inconvenience. No losses for BAA.
It seemed somewhat ironic to see exactly the same union officials that have represent us during our dispute, able to secure a deal to avert the BAA strike so quickly. One minute they are “intransigent militants” the next “reasonable men”.
Unite is the same union, with the same people negotiating, the difference therefore, must be in the “BA” part of the equation, rather than the Unite part.
Perhaps this has revealed who the real “intransigent militants” are - and funnily enough, they are not in our union, they are actually pretending to run an airline.
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All I was saying is that there does seem to be an opportunity to call BASSA'S bluff here, or wrong foot them . . . even if it were a tough pill to swallow. I wouldn't suggest that CC got anything that nobody else got . . . that is stretching a point. For the record I gave 20 years of my best to BA at Waterside. Staff Travel is neither here nor there to me as I don't use it. Yes, shameful behaviour demonstrated by the militant.
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I'm confused
Are there two unions called Unite?
One of which is "portrayed as both militant and intransigent; will not reach a deal, in almost two years, with BA management and are seen as being “determined to destroy British Airways”" and the other with which BA has just negotiated a "job and pay cutting deal" which it is recommending to staff to vote to accept.
British Airways ground staff should reject their deal and unite with cabin crew|14Aug10|Socialist Worker
One of which is "portrayed as both militant and intransigent; will not reach a deal, in almost two years, with BA management and are seen as being “determined to destroy British Airways”" and the other with which BA has just negotiated a "job and pay cutting deal" which it is recommending to staff to vote to accept.
British Airways ground staff should reject their deal and unite with cabin crew|14Aug10|Socialist Worker
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The most recent musing from our KLAX resident.
The penny has at last dropped, and its good to see the BASSA chair admit that on 1 single route current BA crew are 5 times more expensive than the new mixed fleet!
Well done!
Current costings of worldwide crew operating the 5 day Sin trip is around £5 million per year, on mixed fleet this would fall to around £1 million. Any crew member in any doubt as to what the companys(sic)long term intentions are, need only consider this.
Well done!
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Ppants
Whatever your job is i'm sure the company can find someone cheaper to do it (which i very much doubt your happy to let happen)
BAs cabin crew are some of the best in the world and are the front end of the brand.I don't agree with the way the BASSA leadership have handled this dispute, but don't automatically think good service comes with low pay.
Whatever your job is i'm sure the company can find someone cheaper to do it (which i very much doubt your happy to let happen)
BAs cabin crew are some of the best in the world and are the front end of the brand.I don't agree with the way the BASSA leadership have handled this dispute, but don't automatically think good service comes with low pay.
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BAs cabin crew are some of the best in the world and are the front end of the brand.I don't agree with the way the BASSA leadership have handled this dispute, but don't automatically think good service comes with low pay.
For the record, I don't begrudge the 60 grand......if they do their job properly. A poorly performing pilot is soon spotted, be it by a colleague's report, his six monthly sim check, his route check, or a conversion course. The same does not seem to happen with CC, and that is where the problem lies, IMHO.
This thread is not about pilot pay, but, Stormin, I think you would struggle to find a BA pilot paid 5 times more than his counterpart in another airline. Yes, we are well looked after, and so i think we should be. If we weren't, it would only be worse for everyone else. To some extent BA must, through it's sheer size, set the benchmark (not for standards, before anyone accuses me of being an arrogant Nigel!!). There is no way other airlines in the UK do not keep a close eye on what BA are up to, and BA does have an affect on the market for all employees.
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Call it whatever you like but it is still low pay regardless of how many AAA* students might be able and willing to join the ranks of cabin crew.
The better formula would have been for MF to work integrally with the established fleets and in doing so keeping some sort of long term career potential for everyone choosing to became a cabin crew member.
If only we had an intelligent union concentrating on the long term prosperity of its present and future members instead of an idiotic, childish apparatus intent in fighting for the sake of it with dubious results and related drastic downgrade of the profession that they so much trumpet and rhetorically supposed to save and safeguard.
Shame on them!
The better formula would have been for MF to work integrally with the established fleets and in doing so keeping some sort of long term career potential for everyone choosing to became a cabin crew member.
If only we had an intelligent union concentrating on the long term prosperity of its present and future members instead of an idiotic, childish apparatus intent in fighting for the sake of it with dubious results and related drastic downgrade of the profession that they so much trumpet and rhetorically supposed to save and safeguard.
Shame on them!
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Bengerman,
Perhaps you haven't watched the news or read a newspaper in the last 24 hours but there are 1,000s of teenagers without a place at university.
I'm sure that many of them would be delighted to do a few weeks training to become BA cabin crew.
Fly12345,
You've hit the nail on the head but the BASSAmentalists are blind to reality.
Perhaps you haven't watched the news or read a newspaper in the last 24 hours but there are 1,000s of teenagers without a place at university.
I'm sure that many of them would be delighted to do a few weeks training to become BA cabin crew.
Fly12345,
You've hit the nail on the head but the BASSAmentalists are blind to reality.
Fly12345,
The idea that new fleet recruits would fly with existing cabin crew is totally ludicrous and was NEVER going to happen.
It is bad enough with the post 97 people being on a different slary scale, but at least they get the same allowances! It was also still mean working to the same hugely expensive and very restrictive working practices that ensure our costs are so much higher than our competitors.
I feel sorry for so many of my friends in the cabin crew communuity that they have been led by a bunch of greedy, egotistical, self-serving senior CSDs and pursers - your bassa reps. However, every cabin crew member must share some blame that they have allowed these numpties to gain so much power and really run bassa for their own best interests - that after all was the reason at the start of this sorry mess.
It is good to see in 'black and white' the admission by one of these aforementioned numties of just how much lower a cost base will be seen in the future.
Flying soldier 1993
Spot on!
If more non-strikers suddenly realised that THEY are the majority, NOT the strikers, then the onboard atmosphere would improve.
The idea that new fleet recruits would fly with existing cabin crew is totally ludicrous and was NEVER going to happen.
It is bad enough with the post 97 people being on a different slary scale, but at least they get the same allowances! It was also still mean working to the same hugely expensive and very restrictive working practices that ensure our costs are so much higher than our competitors.
I feel sorry for so many of my friends in the cabin crew communuity that they have been led by a bunch of greedy, egotistical, self-serving senior CSDs and pursers - your bassa reps. However, every cabin crew member must share some blame that they have allowed these numpties to gain so much power and really run bassa for their own best interests - that after all was the reason at the start of this sorry mess.
It is good to see in 'black and white' the admission by one of these aforementioned numties of just how much lower a cost base will be seen in the future.
Flying soldier 1993
Spot on!
If more non-strikers suddenly realised that THEY are the majority, NOT the strikers, then the onboard atmosphere would improve.