British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[demomonkey]

I echo Tiramisu's comments. Today was a very nice atmosphere with some lovely professional crew who were a credit to their profession. Striking isn't going to solve these issues and having only one strategy (confrontation) isn't effective. A change is needed.

I also noted that BFC must have been playing away this weekend as there weren't as many supporters as last week when I few over. Also there were certainly significantly fewer aircraft parked in West Base compared to last week.

Time to turn a corner?

[earleyboy]

Uni1......... This morning I asked you to post actual details where and when WW had threatened or bullied CC, you've gone very quiet !!! Come on now, you were very clear that this was so where is the evidence I asked for. I am sure there are many CC waiting to hear as well. Just want to say to all the CC who have turned up and not been influenced by the spin by BASSA and UNITE have the vast majority of ground staffs' utmost respect .

[Alexandraa]

Zilli

Don't be nervous about coming into work! It's easier said than done but you will be looked after and trust me when I say that many crew are coming to work!

I'm in the middle of a B2B and roughly 70% of the crew decided to do the 2nd part. The last flight of this B2B is done on 747 (the other 3 have been on 777) and some were worried that we would be picking up "striking crew downroute" on the way back who flew out earlier this week. Our CSD addressed this to a manager and she said we would not be leaving until they sorted it out and gave us reassurance. All dealt within a few minutes.

We are staying in different hotels (no, they won't tell you which one if you call them), met by managers downroute and escorted through the airport. There's a very little risk that other crew will see you or get hold of your name.

There were no volunteers on my flight this morning and from what I have heard very few flights are crewed by them because of the number of regular crew turning up!

To round off this message I have to say that one of crew on my trip is an ex BASSA rep and is completely disgusted with BASSA's behaviour.

[Caribbean Boy]

Unhappy pax

Viewfrom5Bells wrote:

Very odd thing i have noticed . This snippet has appeared in online versions of the Daily Mail, Times, Telegraph. Looks like either someone has been set up to complain to all newspapers or that newspapers are using the same stringer in T5

John Cawley, 54, from Liverpool, said he would never fly with the company again.
Mr Cawley, his wife and two sons were due to fly to Newark in the US but their internal flight between Manchester and Heathrow was cancelled.
Instead the family was forced to pay £350 to hire a minibus to make the journey south.
Mr Cawley said: “It seems there are no certainties with BA at all. We’re having to take this trip one step at a time, once one bit is over we start to worry about the next one. There are question marks over everything. We’ll never use BA again, we wouldn’t want to go through all this again.”

I, and several other volunteers, have been rebooking pax since 16 March. I just wonder if Mr Cawley had called the freephone number we published because if he had then we could probably have helped him. We would have had various options such as:

• rebook MAN-LHR on BA or BD
• rebook LHR-EWR or LHR-JFK at different times or days
• rebook MAN-EWR on Continental
• rebook MAN-JFK via DUB on Aer Lingus
• rebook MAN-EWR/JFK via FRA on Lufthansa

Professional cyclist Josie Loane, 29 said she had been travelling for around 20 hours after leaving her native Australia early yesterday morning, only to find her connecting flight to Oslo had been cancelled.
She said: “I’ve been re-booked on to another flight but it doesn’t leave until around 2pm so I’ve got lots of waiting around. “It’s pretty bad. They haven’t even offered me a free meal ticket or offered to look after my luggage or anything.

To be honest, she does not have much of a problem. OK, she will arrive later than expected, but she will arrive. I think "pretty bad" is a more relevant comment for people who find that their trip which they were looking forward to, and which may have cost a lot of money, cannot be made.

[ottergirl]

Ottergirl - did they do that during the unrest tho, or did they form and publish their personal details after the dispute was resolved (genuie question, I do not know)? There is a difference.

I really can't remember what was going on at the time. I know that BASSA were fervently anti-midfleet and told all of us that wanted to do it that they would 'wash their hands of us' if we were stupid enough to transfer against their advice. (The subsequent grounding of the 767 fleet and the 1st gulf war was apparently evidence that they were right all along!) For sure there was no IA going on at the time though. Everybody knew who were the reps involved in the break-away union and to this day, the BASSA reps have not had a good thing to say about them. BALPA helped advise them on the set-up and getting recognition I believe.

[Alexandraa]

I really can't remember what was going on at the time. I know that BASSA were fervently anti-midfleet and told all of us that wanted to do it that they would 'wash their hands of us' if we were stupid enough to transfer against their advice. (The subsequent grounding of the 767 fleet and the 1st gulf war was apparently evidence that they were right all along!) For sure there was no IA going on at the time though.

I remember this too.

BASSA was extremely against Midfleet and didn't want to represent any crew going over to this fleet, not until they realised crew were getting promoted fairly quickly on it!

[flapsforty]

Big thank you to all here who, rather than rising to the bait and reacting to the trolling posts, sent in a ´report to moderator' instead.

These particular usernames will not be posting here again.

Your collective refusal to be provoked kept the thread focused and avoided a 4 page bitch fest.

...and avoided us having to delete a gazillion posts.

[christmaslights]

Today

Just come back from shift as crew support. It was nice to be able to be there and try and help.

It has been said many times on this forum, yet not enough: the strength and professionalism of the cabin crew that have come to work today and on any other strike date is to be congratulated and not taken for granted.

It is not about thanking people for doing their job, but thanking them for being strong and doing what they believe is right.

Being bullied or harassed is a traumatic experience, and the pressure from the text messages and numerous emails from the union, the communications from BA, the manipulation of the media, just add to what is an already extremely difficult decision. Thanking people for being there, therefore, is about appreciating how difficult their decision has been.

I have had the chance of chatting to some of you today, and I wanted to do it because there is not much that non cabin crew can do otherwise to try and help you. We cannot (and should not!) make the decision for you. But if you do want to come to work, we can (and should!) support you and by being there show you our appreciation.

[speckledhen]

Most people that turn up to work during the strike period, do not feel "brave" and do not want to be patronised in this way by self seeking BA employees looking after their more lucrative positions. They have to listen to the lies and propaganda from boths sides and try and make sense of it all and then told "your either for us or against us" when basically all they want to do is go to work, keep their job and try to pay the bills.
Many feel guilty and torn apart. They don't know if they are doing the right thing and do not trust either side. They are in a no win situation and have no idea how all of this is going to end. Its a shame that the people in charge can't act more honorably and intelligently and work out a solution that will resolve this matter as soon as possible. The fact that nothing was done at all to try and solve this situation in the four days between the strikes is absolutley incredible. Everyone has to see sense and work together.... unless, of course, they don't want to.

[ottergirl]

christmaslights

That was a really nice post. During the week I was on the carpark bus with two people in shiny new reflective jackets and later we were all saying in the briefing room how amazing that you were all there at 6am as volunteers.

We also agreed that we weren't sure whether it was appropriate to engage you in chat or not.

Now I know it is, I shall be chatting to you all and look forward to meeting you on Monday. Thank you, from the working crew, for all your efforts.

[draglift]

Zilly

You said:

I have to be honest here, the posts by various BA pilots have done nothing to win friends for the BA cause.

I don't think I have but in no way do I wish to bash cabin crew, especially when they are down. I find it very frustrating flying with cabin crew who are striking over imposition, striking over New Fleet or do not know what they are striking over but think it might help their future. This strike is doing incredible damage to BA's income and reputation. I think it will take years to regain the business, the trust of the passengers and the reputation of the cabin crew.

What I am still finding hard to reconsile is, having to work for another 4/5 yrs with these colleagues that decided to strike. I dont want my name to be mud, and even though I am a strong individual, after flying for 25+ years, I value friendships when you are away for days at a time.

I sympathise with what must be a terrible predicament and will doubtless cause tensions between cabin crew for years to come. If it's any consolation it looks like more crew have come in to work than have gone on strike. If this continues, when all has settled down there will be more cabin crew that didn't strike than did, and you will be in the majority.

Any union or association who are too much of a coward to name who they are, ie, who is running it, does not deserve my attention.

I think that is very harsh. I have great admiration for the courage of Tiramisu, Glamgirl etc who are being very proactive, looking to the future and are trying to give cabin crew an alternative to just resigning from BASSA. With all the vitriol and threats from some of the BASSA members it is very sensible their names are not being divulged.

I dont believe my union are doing whats best for me. I believe they are protecting the top table at Bassa, ie the csds.

I hope when the strikes are over you might look at what PCC's objectives are. You might find that if BA recognise them they may be able to negotiate a deal that is acceptable to you. This will doubtless be better than any further imposition if BASSA has refused to negotiate. BA can also save a lot of money without taking it directly off you. At times your hours limitations are more restrictive than the pilots' which makes BA cabin crew very expensive.

Whatever you decide I really hope you go into work and find it a positive experience. If you didn't vote for the strike and have resigned from BASSA you have just as much right to go to work as the strikers have to strike.

[bacabincrew]

flapsforty

I may have risen to that bait!

[Fargoo]

Just to lighten up for a moment ..............

People need to take care that their photobucket accounts don't contain their surname. Light hearted or not.

A lot of crazy stuff going on at the moment, would hate to see someone get into trouble over a few pictures.

[christmaslights]

Ottergirl

looking forward to it.

speckledhen

They have to listen to the lies and propaganda from boths sides and try and make sense of it all and then told "your either for us or against us" when basically all they want to do is go to work, keep their job and try to pay the bills.
Many feel guilty and torn apart. They don't know if they are doing the right thing and do not trust either side.

and I really feel for those crew. There's nothing worse that the position they are in. But again, unless one is a member of the negotiating team on either side, what one can do is just be there or at least try. Nobody is ever going to be able to do the right thing by everybody. But I believe being there is better than not. If nothing it helps me keep an open mind. We are all exposed to a lot of information (or misinformation) and that can inflame people, making them judgemental. I don't have any answer and I dont claim to.

Some people seem to be happy to label the 'other' side.
You just did when you said

self seeking BA employees looking after their more lucrative positions

how do you know that all the other employees who are volunteers have more lucrative positions?

it is safer to make that assumption because it removes the team spirit. "don't patronize me as you are not like me" ... like it or not we are not all managers. Even those with a job title of manager sometimes earn much less than non-managers. Einsten did teach that everything is relative to one's point of view. So your statement of more lucrative jobs feels like is meant to create distance and not bridge.

The union wants to fit people into categories and wants crew to feel isolated. The way they do it is by depersonalising individuals, promoting a sense of distrust of anybody who is not one of them. I was a member of Unite until last weekend. I too need a job. I, too, have a mortgage to pay and just want to go to work and get on with my life. But I do not want to judge those who go on strike nor promote this attitude of distance and distrust.

Volunteering and talking to crew helps me not get drawn into the dispute and maintain a balanced view of what is happening, as much as I am trying to help others with my presence.

[Caribbean Boy]

BA operational update - 27 March at 2030

Our operation has gone well today and we have delivered our objective of flying more than 75 per cent of customers to their destinations.

At Heathrow we have flown the schedule we promised, which was significantly more extensive than during the first strike period.

We have operated 70 per cent of our normal long-haul programme (compared with 60 per cent last weekend) and up to 55 per cent of our short-haul programme (compared with 30 per cent).

Our operations at Gatwick, where we have flown our full normal schedule, have been exceptionally good today with the vast majority of flights departing on time or early.

As expected, crew reporting levels at Heathrow matched the flying programme we planned and delivered. Crew continued to report as normal at Gatwick as they did last weekend during the first strike period.

London City has again operated as normal.

[MrBernoulli]

anotherthing,

Also, having read the forum, I am of the understanding that BA propose to give an allowance regardless of what trips you do i.e. an average. If this is correct then surely what the lady said makes even less sense when she is happy to throw this idea out because such an allowance could, by negotiation, form part of the basic pay?

That is not my understanding of this proposed Travel Allowance, although the allowance is intended to replace the very unbalanced cabin crew allowances as they now exist.

Currently some routes pay very lucratively in allowances - a handful of days can produce several hundred pounds. e.g Far East (which is why some folk in positions of influence seem to be attracted to such destinations ....) . Other routes, e.g. to West Africa, produce comparatively little in allowances and the figure may not even reach £100. The proposed Travel Allowance (or whatever it is being called), will replace these allowances so that it matters not what route you fly - the allowances earned will essentially be based on time away from base i.e days away, and people who can't 'pick and choose' their trips won't be so disadvantaged.

The misunderstanding comes where some people seem to think they will pick up a Travel Allowance whether they are at work or not - wrong! If you do 7 days work, you will earn £Z in allowances. Someone doing 14 days work will get 2 x £Z. If you are not at work for the month, e.g sickness or leave, you will not get any Travel Allowance. Think about it - why should someone not at work be paid the same allowance for some one who is at work? Someone not at work will only get basic salary, until such time as they show up and work a a trip. Maybe that is why it is being termed Travel Allowance?

[Baboon]

So a negotiated settlement appears to be the only thing that will sort this mess out.

That'll be 'negotiated' as in 'we refuse to negotiate', the official stance of UNITE & BASSA right up to the deadline (June 30th 2009) by which all staff groups were obliged to complete negotiations or face imposition. The pilots, engineers and ground staff all managed to agree to reasonable changes to pay and working practices in order to keep the airline in business. UNITE were notably absent from discussions.

If I sound harsh it isn't intended that way: these are simply facts, but I am still not sure exactly why the offer made to them last week was not put to their membership prior to announcing strike action. Perhaps they were afraid that the membership might say 'yes'! To claim that Walsh should put that offer back on the table now is at best laughable given the costs that they as a union have caused the airline. My sympathies lie not only with the passengers but with the cabin crew in this. They have been led to the slaughter by power-obsessed maniacs with very different agendas to simply resolving the BA-BASSA dispute.

The question now is, what on earth are they going to do next???

[Caribbean Boy]

Stewardess interview

anotherthing wrote:

There are stories of BASSA being somewhat economical with the truth... I have just watched BBC news and they interviewed a female CC striker (face hidden, which is fair enough).

She stated that her basic was only £11k and that if she isn't working through illness/rostering etc she does not get paid. A slightly disingenuous staement is it not? Surely if she is off sick, or not rostered on a trip she still receives her basic pay?

Correct, we all get basic pay and sick pay.

Also, having read the forum, I am of the understanding that BA propose to give an allowance regardless of what trips you do i.e. an average. If this is correct then surely what the lady said makes even less sense when she is happy to throw this idea out because such an allowance could, by negotiation, form part of the basic pay?

Unite had a concern that cabin crew on new fleet would get profitable routes. So, BA has proposed the monthly travel payment that consolidates existing taxable variable allowances (LRP, B2B, DES, ETP for WW; LDP, ETP and BER for EF). This would be a guaranteed payment.

It seems that not only has BASSA lied to or misinformed its members, but they (some CC) themselves are not above being economical with the truth in interview.

She comes across as poorly informed, having made little attempt to ascertain some simple facts.

[ILS27LEFT]

Be aware!

I was reading all posts of this thread and I have noticed that a very large number of contributors (on both sides of the disputes) have recently joined PPRuNe.
Knowing pretty well Willie Walsh's tactics and his professional past and management style I would not be surprised to find out that many "new" members (those who joined in the last few months, check under nickname) are actually active part of a cynical strategy, a suicidal mystification of reality done by both the CEO and the Board.
I tend to think that both sides are playing their role without being sensible and clever here.
After the recent interviews of Willie Walsh I am more and more sceptical about his real intentions.
I know the strikers genuinely love BA and they are loyal. They are frightened by the Management style. There is no trust. They fight. They are very brave.
I know the non-strikers also genuinely love BA and they are loyal.
They are also frightened but they still go to work. They are also very brave.

But I think and ask around, who is really right here? Who can sort this mess out?
Difficult questions with impossible answers unless they both sit down and negotiate. This is why Unions exist: to simply negotiate. But the CEO does not believe in negotiations he said. So BA Crew are stuck in the middle of this mess.
The BA Crew are the real victims of this dispute, not the shareholders.

I wonder how those mums working for BA on those new post-97 contracts on ridiculously low salaries can afford for example a full-time nursery for just one kid around the LHR area: the minimum monthly nursery fees in Greater London and beyond are in the region of £1300-1500 net per month just for one child???...in fact EasyJet and RyanAir Cabin Crew cannot have children with their ultra low salaries and crazy rosters.

I then understand that for pilots must be very easy to misunderstand crew on this dispute, pilots earn very good money, they deserve it and they probably do not have difficulties in paying mortgages, nursery fees, etc.
Often pilots are in touch with very Senior Cabin Crew on pre-97 salaries which are objectively generous. These are now a minority.
Averagely speaking the Cabin Crew Community is on salaries well below the National averages and their fight is not the result of personal greed but it is simply a fight for survival, especially all those BA Crew with post 97 packages.
Majority of LowCo Crew are very young, no commitments, no mortgage, no kids. This is why is also so wrong to compare pears with apples.
In BA there are lots of working mums, not in the LowCo sector.

So simple.

I now believe the following:
Cabin Crew are not greedy, they are just fighting for their decent survival.
Top Managers are often greedy instead, they are paid to be greedy, their bonuses and salaries are clearly disproportionate in relation to the job they do, the whole thing is really going beyond common sense, especially in the Airline Industry (see Mr O'Leary's style) and nobody wants to see it.
Governments should intervene.

Once the last significant Cabin Crew Union is finally crushed it would be a sad day for the whole industry.

[konaman]

can't believe the pro union bias on the BBC news just now

oh, but hang on, it's the bbc, so that explains it........