British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Juan Tugoh]

What next?

I think the next ballot will be about staff travel and disciplinary..a complete different subject.
ns68 is online now Report Post Reply

I think that both TW and DS have made it abundantly clear over the last few weeks that both staff travel and disciplinaries are part of this dispute. The problem with a ballot on the subject is that either this dispute is now about that or the next one is, they cannot have it both ways - ballot on for the next dispute and UNITE run the risk of a court case about this dispute, particularly the current set of strikes. The risk is that these strikes will be ruled illegal with all the financial and other penalties that may accrue. Similarly the legal protections against dismissal are also under threat if this course of action is followed. It would be in the hands of the court of course, but its an enormous risk to take.

[flapsforty]

Some old rules for those who have recently joined us, and for those who never did look what they agreed to when they joined in a dim and distant past.

Please read the following:

• Argue points instead of attacking your opponent´s person, intelligence, identity, (non)union affiliation, position relative to the cockpit door etc etc. As in play the ball, not the player. Failure to do so leads to thread ban.
  .
• If a post contains something you think is against PPRuNe rules, use the button you see on the left of every post. Mods will then look at that post and take action accordingly.
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• This thread is open for posts from currently employed airline staff only. Anybody else, use the thread on the SLF forum about this subject.
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• Don´t post repetitive rubbish, page fillers, "just got back from the pub and this is hilarious" funnies.
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• This thread is not about the deal between BA pilots and BA management.
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• Mods have no stake in this debate, despite both sides in this dispute having accused us of favouring their opponent. We apply the rules; if you don´t stick to them, your post will get deleted. Whatever your point of view or the merit of the rest of your post.
  

[ns68]

The risk is that these strikes will be ruled illegal with all the financial and other penalties that may accrue.

I did think of that..as i said before the only reason why I would have gone in would have been the intimidation..this kind of intimidation.. but I have spoken to people in and outside the company and have been confirmed that this set of strikes was declared legal by the Court the other day. There is no doubt about that. It was only a few days ago.There is nothing illegal about this third wave of strike apparently.

But I did fear initially that would be the case.

[Juan Tugoh]

What next?

this set of strikes was declared legal by the Court the other day. There is no doubt about that. It was only a few days ago.There is nothing illegal about this third wave of strike apparently.

I agree with you here but,,

That is as it stands at the moment without another ballot wrt to staff travel and disciplinaries. As TW and DS have both stated that this strike is now over these two issues then any further ballot on these two issues will either invalidate the current set of strikes or the next ballot. Either way the ballot itself is likely to cause a legal problem for the strikers and union.

I did think of that..as i said before the only reason why I would have gone in would have been the intimidation..this kind of intimidation

I hope you did not mean that my post was intimidatory, it is only a question as to how the IA will progress. I am not threatening anyone with anything, just curious.

[Wirbelsturm]

I did think of that..as i said before the only reason why I would have gone in would have been the intimidation..this kind of intimidation

I don't understand this? You feel intimidated because your Union might not have correctly balloted? That is akin to driving along a road and feeling intimidated that you might not know the correct speed limit and might get fined! The law is perfectly clear on the requirements for IA to be legal. Unite/BASSA just seem to have a little trouble following them. As for the company they are required by the investors and shareholders to employ every legal avenue to prevent further damage to the company. Even if it goes against the wishes of the CEO as this one apprently did.

Whilst I disagree with the current strikes per se, I think that any member of the Unions should have the courage of their own convictions. Blaming the inability to take industrial action you voted for on intimidation is a little weak imho.

The CC need strong representation, that has never been in doubt, what they don't need is the lying, vindictive representation that they are currently receiving from BASSA.

Perhaps I am just reading it wrong?

[ns68]

I hope you did not mean that my post was intimidatory, it is only a question as to how the IA will progress. I am not threatening anyone with anything, just curious.

Not at all. I meant what has been coming from the company itself .One of the ESS messages before the injunction was reading something on the line of: "if we get the strike to be called illegal..there will be no protection for people who took industrial action"..I don t remember the right words.
I felt very intimidated by that..I well remember thinking on the day""AM GOING IN, AND I WILL GO IN EVEN ON MY DAYS OFF FROM NOW ON""
Very sad I know but I felt that way..

[ns68]

to wirbelstum:

Perhaps I am just reading it wrong?

NO, you have read it exactly right.
And I consider both sides wrong and right at times but this one time-the february ballot- I voted yes for industrial action..so call me old fashioned but I sticked to my vote.

Unite could do things better in my opinion,and might have let some people down.
If re-balloted I will take into consideration all this new twists and vote accordingly. and act accordingly.
But at the moment I have decided to follow my vote..trying to do the right thing.

[Hand Solo]

From the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act:

233 Calling of industrial action with support of ballot (1) Industrial action shall not be regarded as having the support of a ballot unless it is called by a specified person and the conditions specified below are satisfied.
(2) A “specified person” means a person specified or of a description specified in the voting paper for the ballot in accordance with section 229(3).
(3) The conditions are that—
(a) there must have been no call by the trade union to take part or continue to take part in industrial action to which the ballot relates, or any authorisation or endorsement by the union of any such industrial action, before the date of the ballot;

Note the red bit. TW has already said the strike is about staff travel. You haven't yet ballotted on striking over staff travel. If you do ballot over staff travel you run the very real risk of invalidating one or the other of the ballots. What a mess Unite are in. And thats before they realise that BA can run a decent schedule without the strikers and simply starve them back to work.

[Get Smart]

What intimidation from BA?

I certainly didn't feel intimidated by the ESS sent out re the ballot result - or any of the ESS mail sent out regarding the strike for that matter. I merely think they are being up front about the consequences. I for one would much prefer to be kept informed of where I stand which is something I don't think Bassa have done for its members.

Anyway, I'm off to work now and looking forward to a nice flight. As stated here many times by numberous posters, working during the IA is actually pleasant. And yes, the pax are overly grateful belive it or not. Greateful that so many of us are displaying the common sense to keep the airline flying.

[ns68]

I certainly didn't feel intimidated by the ESS sent out re the ballot result - or any of the ESS mail sent out regarding the strike for that matter. I merely think they are being up front about the consequences. I for one would much prefer to be kept informed of where I stand which is something I don't think Bassa have done for its members.

yeah,you are right..maybe i should just take it as the company keeping us in the loop..instead of being over sensitive and seeing as intimidation...-i am a woman afterall..

[gr8tballsoffire]

NS68
If you read your ballot paper properly you would have noted that even Unite pointed out the lack of protection after 90 days, so any message you may have got from management was no different. No intimidation involved, simply reminding you of the facts.
I am assuming that BASSA /UNITE wouldn't be stupid enough to call an illegal strike, but after 12 June I would suggest you are very careful about any decisions you make. It is YOUR job at risk, not Duncan Holley's, Tony Woodley's or Derek Simpson. Whatever happens they will be secure in the knowledge that they are safe and secure.

[VSOP Fables]

Eddy - Full marks to CWL!

Re your post 3992, see mine 3837. What a great bunch to travel up like that. My lot came by car, so it wasn't a question of hitching a ride on an a/c destined for maintenance. And they night-stopped to get in two days worth of volunteering. I do hope someone from CWL reads this and passes on the messages.

[davidexba]

Daily message from BASSA ?

I'd be very interested to read the daily message sent out by Mr H if anyone has access to this. I'd just like to 'hear' what is being said to those crew taking part in IA each day, and the view from BFC (or London as I believe today).

[Hand Solo]

Your wish is my command. This is yesterdays message, todays dose of Holley fantasy has yet to be penned.

Latest News

DAY 11 IN THE YOU KNOW WHAT
May 27th, 2010 by admin

Day 11 in the Bedfont, Big Brother house.

If you build it they will come...

The momentum is building, you can feel it; there is an energy about Bedfont that is almost tangible - it’s a feeling of strength of being part of something.And seriously this is not BASSA spin, as if we would!

So many brand new XXXXers coming along to join us now, and lots of people who went to work last time but didn’t feel right doing it again - they were nervous when they came, but every single one of them left grinning from ear to ear. All at Bedfont applauded their bravery and were just glad to see them.

Strikes have a way of showing a person’s true character; there is no fence to sit on with this one and it almost always proves one thing - those who shout the loudest and have the most opinions are often the ones furthest from the picket lines; it’s often the quiet people who shine and show their determination not to be bullied.

Bedfont is alive with gossip and rumours of who went to work and broke the strike and who didn’t. Some of these “names” are well known people in our community and a few would be the last people that you would imagine would cross a picket line, but they have...... so be it. We can’t change that, but for those that continue to show a true courage, a courage to stand up not just for themselves but also for others, you deserve their thanks, even if they don’t know it. You of course, have our eternal gratitude, you are - quite simply - what makes our job as reps worth doing and are “what being in a union is all about” - Thank you, yet again!

New limited edition, black XXXX luggage labels are now available - make sure you

collect yours! Management have now gone from making life as difficult as possible for strikers, to attempting to bribe them with the offer of lucrative trips to operate next week, the boot is well and truly transferring to the other foot!

Donations to our strike fund continue to be delivered from all over the country and from abroad, from all sorts of people and groups and with incredible generosity and kindness. Some of them small, from an elderly gentlemen who donated £5 through the post from his pension and some of them massive, the steel workers of America have pledged thousand of dollars. These will all be used along with the £750,000 already pledged by Unite, to improve strike pay when the amount-per-person can be calculated.

The open top protest bus to Speakers Corner for the “gagged crew” press event will be leaving around 11am. The queue to get on it has already started.

See you tomorrow for day twelve, eight o’clock prompt please!

[Snas]

I'd be very interested to read the daily message sent out by Mr H if anyone has access to this. I'd just like to 'hear' what is being said to those crew taking part in IA each day, and the view from BFC (or London as I believe today).

You have the BASSA one from the poster above, below is the offering from Unite: -

Day 12, Friday, May 28th: Of the 333 flights BA said it was scheduled to operate today:

• By 9am, 121 of these were cancelled - 20 of these are long haul and include flights to major and lucrative destinations including New York, Newark, Boston, Tel Aviv and Johannesburg.
• 101 Eurofleet flights were also cancelled .
• BA is continuing to cancel flights to all main UK cities including Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh.
• There is still heavy reliance on the wet-leasers and competitors to provide flights. Today they are being used on 56 flights, around one in six of BA flights. Not only do BA pay for carriers to take the passengers, they hand over the revenue from these flights too. Qantas, Iberia and Aer Lingus are the main beneficiaries today operating BA flights to Bangkok, Sydney, Melbourne, Madrid and Dublin.

The cost to BA of ending the strike is nothing as cabin crew have offered a pay cut. Today is day 12 of the strike; by its own conservative estimates the strike has now cost BA £84 million.

Those cancel flight numbers dont agree with what I have seen from other sources, but who knows?


Source: - http://www.unitetheunion.com/news__events/latest_news/ba_strike_update_-_day_12.aspx

[IYCSWICSWICW]

So, a quick fag packet calculation on that £750 000,

4000 strikers ish, divided into said amount, divided by 18 days of withdrawn labour, (by the time this stretch finishes) = £10.41 per day. Add that to your 30 quid/day, and you'll be able to manage - right?

[Pornpants1]

Its nowhere near 4000 strikers

Please also remember that strike pay counts as taxable income and must be declared

Wouldn't want poorly remunerated cabin crew getting fined for non payment of tax

[Meal Chucker]

Wouldn't want poorly renumerated cabin crew getting fined for non payment of tax

And thanks to Bassa I'm sure I pay more than my fair share of Tax!

Allowances or Back-to-back hotel anyone??

[IYCSWICSWICW]

Look, BA is a business, and the sooner people grip this fact the better. Mr Walsh has his mandate to run the airline as he sees fit underpinned by: (in no particular order)

The Board
All other BA Executive Officers
Shareholders
88% of BA Employees
The Travelling Public
The Non-travelling Public
Mine

He has to deliver, to the city, an airline free from the tyranny of Trades Unionism - The UNITE leadership are de facto The British Communist Party. The are a minority group of power-crazed misanthropes and will be defeated on this maddening, self-destructive pursuit of glory. Woodley, Simpson, Barber, Turner, McCluskey (where is he) know damn well that they are bullet-proof come the revolution. Sadly the BA strikers are not and are left awfully exposed to the next few weeks of business. The CC's only hope is a benevolent Mr Walsh, because the list of folk above, have had enough.

GF

[essessdeedee]

litebulbs

BA has never removed ST from a specific group

Sorry for being late to this party, as this may have already been said -

BA have never warned anyone of this risk in advance of taking a specific action which would financially impact the company.

Therein lies the difference.