British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Where now?
Hello all, just been out flying for the last two days of the strike action. All flights full. They were not reinstated ones and the customers were really appreciative (sp?) of our coming into work and some even thanked me for coming in. Which was very nice and made my day.
But, today i was thinking, where do we all go from here? I can see this dispute going the whole way till 10 June and then will the strikers be allowed back to work, just like last time? I suppose they must be because nothing illegal has been done yet. There are many shocking stories on line of mistreatment of non-strikers by strikers and just what is going to be done about this? I have, not personally witnessed anything nasty comments but I have got some friends who have. This upsets me because I hate all the bad feeling that was out there on line between the last dispute and now.
I really want to know, where are we all going to go from here because I can just see this drama going on and on and the strikers coming back and being unpleasant to us non-striking crew (and customers) after 10 June.
Some people I would glad to see the back of, but you know in BA some people just seem to get away with lots.
Any thoughts?
But, today i was thinking, where do we all go from here? I can see this dispute going the whole way till 10 June and then will the strikers be allowed back to work, just like last time? I suppose they must be because nothing illegal has been done yet. There are many shocking stories on line of mistreatment of non-strikers by strikers and just what is going to be done about this? I have, not personally witnessed anything nasty comments but I have got some friends who have. This upsets me because I hate all the bad feeling that was out there on line between the last dispute and now.
I really want to know, where are we all going to go from here because I can just see this drama going on and on and the strikers coming back and being unpleasant to us non-striking crew (and customers) after 10 June.
Some people I would glad to see the back of, but you know in BA some people just seem to get away with lots.
Any thoughts?
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A friend of mine just emailed me this.
LATEST FROM DUNCAN
Hi all (especially the lady that baked those XXXX cakes at Bedfont yesterday)
Just back from my media course where I have been told I have to speak slower on tv.
Seriously however, my personal feeling is Walsh is now getting desperate by once more appealing to the judiciary to dig him out of a hole he created.
For example - he said yesterday that 2000 BASSA members have left because of the recent strikes.
Only one person knows the exact figure and that is me. I checked this morning and since Jan 1, 568 members have stopped paying into the payroll, so Walsh is lying.
Why? He is worried, very worried.
The media are turning, mainly because they cannot believe this strike is still ongoing for the simple reason he wants to "punish" strikers. I have spoken over the last few days to every media outlet available (except the Daily Mail) and they are horrified. Even the Daily Telegraph said to me last night - "the problem is Walsh you know". Hello?
This latest twist proves we are now dealing with a very delusional person who is prepared to drag BA down in order to protect his image and a renegade bunch of pilots.
This is a defining moment - Bedfont (which was a bit like Woodstock today) was full of virgin strikers , the numbers of XXXX are increasing by the bucket full.
Our resolve has not been broken over the last 2 months, it has been strengthened and the proof was there at Woodstock today, and the fact that Walsh has now gone back to the courts.
See you all tomorrow - any chance of more cakes?
Cheers
Duncan
Hi all (especially the lady that baked those XXXX cakes at Bedfont yesterday)
Just back from my media course where I have been told I have to speak slower on tv.
Seriously however, my personal feeling is Walsh is now getting desperate by once more appealing to the judiciary to dig him out of a hole he created.
For example - he said yesterday that 2000 BASSA members have left because of the recent strikes.
Only one person knows the exact figure and that is me. I checked this morning and since Jan 1, 568 members have stopped paying into the payroll, so Walsh is lying.
Why? He is worried, very worried.
The media are turning, mainly because they cannot believe this strike is still ongoing for the simple reason he wants to "punish" strikers. I have spoken over the last few days to every media outlet available (except the Daily Mail) and they are horrified. Even the Daily Telegraph said to me last night - "the problem is Walsh you know". Hello?
This latest twist proves we are now dealing with a very delusional person who is prepared to drag BA down in order to protect his image and a renegade bunch of pilots.
This is a defining moment - Bedfont (which was a bit like Woodstock today) was full of virgin strikers , the numbers of XXXX are increasing by the bucket full.
Our resolve has not been broken over the last 2 months, it has been strengthened and the proof was there at Woodstock today, and the fact that Walsh has now gone back to the courts.
See you all tomorrow - any chance of more cakes?
Cheers
Duncan
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Chuchinchow
A court-martial? I doubt it. I confessed to have done it to one of our BASSA reps in March and he laughed at me!
HiFlyer14
Were there no blacklegs on your flight yesterday? What about yourselves?
UNITE is saying they have almost come to an agreement with BA. We, BASSA, have the final say whether to accept the proposal. I will never accept the proposal as it is today as there are no guarantees regarding my career. There is no long-term protection for existing crew. For you to say that it is a fair proposal is to be completely misguided. Accept this proposal and you will see yourself out of employment in a few years.
VCC were used yesterday as crew were sent to Arora Hotel.
What is BA doing? They are trying to trick us to come into work by changing our rosters and adding lucrative trips. I have been given one myself.
Tiramisu
As I have pointed out previously, I don't always agree with BASSA and their actions. Hot towels were done in the heat of the moment and probably out of boredom. Like I replied to Chuchinchow, I mentioned it to one of our BASSA reps and he laughed at it.
We are also trying to save our jobs, yours included. Accept the proposal as it is and you will not refer to BA as your workplace any longer in a few years.
Do I enjoy being on strike? No, of course not. Nobody does.
A court-martial? I doubt it. I confessed to have done it to one of our BASSA reps in March and he laughed at me!
HiFlyer14
Were there no blacklegs on your flight yesterday? What about yourselves?
UNITE is saying they have almost come to an agreement with BA. We, BASSA, have the final say whether to accept the proposal. I will never accept the proposal as it is today as there are no guarantees regarding my career. There is no long-term protection for existing crew. For you to say that it is a fair proposal is to be completely misguided. Accept this proposal and you will see yourself out of employment in a few years.
VCC were used yesterday as crew were sent to Arora Hotel.
What is BA doing? They are trying to trick us to come into work by changing our rosters and adding lucrative trips. I have been given one myself.
Tiramisu
As I have pointed out previously, I don't always agree with BASSA and their actions. Hot towels were done in the heat of the moment and probably out of boredom. Like I replied to Chuchinchow, I mentioned it to one of our BASSA reps and he laughed at it.
We are also trying to save our jobs, yours included. Accept the proposal as it is and you will not refer to BA as your workplace any longer in a few years.
Do I enjoy being on strike? No, of course not. Nobody does.
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Our resolve has not been broken over the last 2 months, it has been strengthened and the proof was there at Woodstock today, and the fact that Walsh has now gone back to the courts.
So what is exactly happening now? Guess we shall find out in the morning. This saga has more twists and turns, I cannot keep up.
More on the membership numbers: Today I pointed out to a crew member who was still in the union, had voted yes and then came into work
. That if they needed BASSA's protection if they got into trouble at work, it may not be forthcoming. To which, they were shocked and said ' But BASSA have a legal duty to provide me defence (in a disciplinary for example) if I am a member. I went on to explain that they will probably not go out of their way to help someone who broke the strike. Just my thoughts but I think that most people are not (yet) resigning from the union but yet are breaking the strike because they think BASSA will be able to help them out of trouble if anything happens at work.I could be wrong, any thoughts?
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MissM
This is something I have never been able to get my head around. So far as I know, nobody in BA has any guarantee regarding their career. There wasn't when I joined as a pilot in 1987 and my T&Cs have certainly been whittled down since then. No doubt they will continue to be whittled down in the future, but hopefully BALPA will continue to do the best they can, as they have done up to now, to mitigate the reduction in those T&Cs.
Why do you think you are a special case - unique in BA - in demanding that you should have guarantees regarding your career?
I will never accept the proposal as it is today as there are no guarantees regarding my career. There is no long-term protection for existing crew.
Why do you think you are a special case - unique in BA - in demanding that you should have guarantees regarding your career?
Interesting to see from Duncan Holley's strange missive and elsewhere that the union leadership is still pursuing its strategy of trying to marginalise and target Willie Walsh - they believe (or are at least trying to foster the belief in others) that he has dragged a reluctant board, shareholders and the remaining "Backing-BA" workforce into holding out in this confrontation, and that if they can topple the leader, these groups will cave and victory will follow. Hence the recent requests to negotiate with Keith Williams and Tony Woodley's touching appeals to the shareholders (one wonders if he really cares two hoots about their future returns on investment!). This has met with some success in the media, as personalising the issue makes far better copy than dull repetition of the matters in dispute.
However, media coverage apart, it's a high risk stategy which could well backfire and actually galvanise support for WW in the groups who count.
Throughout this affair, there has certainly been a striking contrast between BA's leadership (represented in public exclusively by WW), and the fragmentation (why 2 General-Secretaries?) and public internal bickering on the union side.
However, media coverage apart, it's a high risk stategy which could well backfire and actually galvanise support for WW in the groups who count.
Throughout this affair, there has certainly been a striking contrast between BA's leadership (represented in public exclusively by WW), and the fragmentation (why 2 General-Secretaries?) and public internal bickering on the union side.
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boredom??
MISS M.
QUOTE:
As I have pointed out previously, I don't always agree with BASSA and their actions. Hot towels were done in the heat of the moment and probably out of boredom.
Nice to know your role in the company that is supposedly that bound up by Safety and First Class Customer Service (as Unite keep telling us BA are trying to erode by their imposed new working conditions), that you find both the time and the need to be bored, whilst flying and serving passengers?
lots of people out there would love to be paid to be bored and lots of people paid a lot, lot less have no time to be bored in their jobs!
Surely another demonstration that not a lot of maturity or global awareness is present in the minds of those prepared to strike?
QUOTE:
As I have pointed out previously, I don't always agree with BASSA and their actions. Hot towels were done in the heat of the moment and probably out of boredom.
Nice to know your role in the company that is supposedly that bound up by Safety and First Class Customer Service (as Unite keep telling us BA are trying to erode by their imposed new working conditions), that you find both the time and the need to be bored, whilst flying and serving passengers?
lots of people out there would love to be paid to be bored and lots of people paid a lot, lot less have no time to be bored in their jobs!
Surely another demonstration that not a lot of maturity or global awareness is present in the minds of those prepared to strike?
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Originally Posted by MissM
I will never accept the proposal as it is today as there are no guarantees regarding my career. There is no long-term protection for existing crew.
Page 14
Even BA is telling its investers that in 10 years less than 50% of crew will be on New Fleet. Not quite the scare story told by Bassa.
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Originally Posted by Chesh01
Is it true that we are being represented by someone who is not employed by BA?
IMHO I don't think it makes that much difference, if the Daily Mail is to be believed he only flew about 20hrs a year even when he was employeed by BA.
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Comparison with General Holley
One of the great speeches in the House of Commons yesterday included a quote from a russian general which reminded me of the current position or soon to be current position of our Unite union. The Liberal MP for Bath stated.... "After todays battle we stand on the edge of the cliff staring into the abyss. Tomorrow we will take a great leap forward."
Last edited by Chesh01; 26th May 2010 at 06:40. Reason: spell check
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got to go!
I have read some great posts on both sides of the coin for all reasons. I have to say goodbye....Got the school run, shopping, housecleaning and dinner to prepare. All unpaid tasks, but at least I can get a break and go to work this afternoon.
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answer
Is it true that we are being represented by someone who is not employed by BA?
btw, who paid for DH's media course? bassa members?
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UNITE is saying they have almost come to an agreement with BA. We, BASSA, have the final say whether to accept the proposal. I will never accept the proposal as it is today as there are no guarantees regarding my career. There is no long-term protection for existing crew. For you to say that it is a fair proposal is to be completely misguided. Accept this proposal and you will see yourself out of employment in a few years.
(Quote: MissM)
MissM. There never have been "guarantees regarding your career" or "longterm protection for crew". The notion there has been, is fiction, but of course that's something BASSA have shown to be very good at.
There is SOME protection for contractual elements of our job, by employment law, and common sense protects us from some of BASSA's wildest claims ("you'll all be sat at home with no work" - On full basic pay and my pension paid, I wish!), but no guarantees or long term protection. But there aren't any even with our current arrangements.
There can't be, business, especially the airline business, is too unpredictable and volotile to give them. Like life, risk is something we all have to accept and deal with.
We'll just have to watch very carefully the progress of New Fleet, and see how it goes. If the Company tries to do what BASSA claims with New Fleet, it will now be a very public act of dishonesty, that will be witnessed by all the other staff around the airline, the City, the press and the public, that would show the BA LT to be dishonest and not to be trusted. Not something, I believe it could afford.
It's a shame that BASSA couldn't have been seen to be reasonable throughout all this, because if BA DID try to stiff us over New Fleet in the future, we may have, unlike now, won support from all the parties I've just listed, and it would have been very hard for them to win any dispute over it.
(Quote: MissM)
MissM. There never have been "guarantees regarding your career" or "longterm protection for crew". The notion there has been, is fiction, but of course that's something BASSA have shown to be very good at.
There is SOME protection for contractual elements of our job, by employment law, and common sense protects us from some of BASSA's wildest claims ("you'll all be sat at home with no work" - On full basic pay and my pension paid, I wish!), but no guarantees or long term protection. But there aren't any even with our current arrangements.
There can't be, business, especially the airline business, is too unpredictable and volotile to give them. Like life, risk is something we all have to accept and deal with.
We'll just have to watch very carefully the progress of New Fleet, and see how it goes. If the Company tries to do what BASSA claims with New Fleet, it will now be a very public act of dishonesty, that will be witnessed by all the other staff around the airline, the City, the press and the public, that would show the BA LT to be dishonest and not to be trusted. Not something, I believe it could afford.
It's a shame that BASSA couldn't have been seen to be reasonable throughout all this, because if BA DID try to stiff us over New Fleet in the future, we may have, unlike now, won support from all the parties I've just listed, and it would have been very hard for them to win any dispute over it.
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Just completed two days of flying. All my flights were full. Carried two Prem pax who both said thanks to me and my crew for flying through the IA. I can't tell you how lovely it is at work during this IA. All the crew are happy and relaxed. On non strike days there is a large elephant sitting in the briefing room and on the plane, and every one knows it is there but nobody can talk about it! During the strike it has been great. Lots of dedicated caring crew who are coming to work because that is what we are paid to do. We are all free to discuss the IA and we all agree that BASSA has gone completely mad.
Passengers get off and hold your hand and say thank you. It is really strange but uplifting.
I am working because this is a pointless strike and will achive nothing. I can assure all you striking crew, that the CRC was full and more flights will be operated next week.
The union is lying to you all.
Passengers get off and hold your hand and say thank you. It is really strange but uplifting.
I am working because this is a pointless strike and will achive nothing. I can assure all you striking crew, that the CRC was full and more flights will be operated next week.
The union is lying to you all.
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Re legal action
As spindoctor has said, there is the threat to Unite of a full court hearing. I believe this a warning shot accross the Unite bows to get their house in order, especially BASSA as BA might be seeking compensation at a time in the future.
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Next schedule out today
So the next schedule is due today - any thoughts on how much of an increase there will be with reports on here of 2hr standby and VCCs stood down? I'd like to see 100% longhaul and 75% shorthaul but I think that's be a stretch!
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Reminder - In order to post on this thread, you must be currently serving airline staff.
Please use the Pax/SLf forum thread for your comments if you are not currently serving airline staff.
Please use the Pax/SLf forum thread for your comments if you are not currently serving airline staff.
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Miss M,
I assumed that, because on the 17 April you wrote:
I have never said that I'm disappointed with crew who are not part of a union and went to work during the strike as they really had no choice. The ones I'm very disappointed with are volunteer cabin crew, temporary cabin crew and crew who voted for a strike but didn't go through with it. If you resigned from the union because you felt they were not representing you, fine.
that you did not include me, or anyone else that has resigned from the union in your "spineless and blacklegs" comment. It appears now that you have had a change of heart towards us. Is that because you are feeling the strain of the ineffectiveness of the strike?
I, and infact most of the non-strikers, bear no ill-feeling towards you or the other strikers that are severely threatening our livelihoods, our futures and our jobs. I do however feel that you are very misguided and if you continue to blindly follow this path of self-destruction that the Union are leading you down, you are putting your future at risk. We are simply concerned about you, our colleagues, that we have laughed and joked with over the years. We find it appalling that BASSA have reduced our once great community to a rift of lies, deceitfulness and mistrust. It is a complete shambles.
I have absolutely no regrets about coming to work during a strike. I am absolutely certain that the Professional Cabin Crew Council will provide a better way forward for our community. However, if it all goes pear-shaped, I can put my hand on my heart and say I have done everything possible to save our jobs, our community and our company.
I sincerely hope that you can say the same about your role in all of this in a few weeks time.
They only wanted us to work a bit harder.
I assumed that, because on the 17 April you wrote:
I have never said that I'm disappointed with crew who are not part of a union and went to work during the strike as they really had no choice. The ones I'm very disappointed with are volunteer cabin crew, temporary cabin crew and crew who voted for a strike but didn't go through with it. If you resigned from the union because you felt they were not representing you, fine.
I, and infact most of the non-strikers, bear no ill-feeling towards you or the other strikers that are severely threatening our livelihoods, our futures and our jobs. I do however feel that you are very misguided and if you continue to blindly follow this path of self-destruction that the Union are leading you down, you are putting your future at risk. We are simply concerned about you, our colleagues, that we have laughed and joked with over the years. We find it appalling that BASSA have reduced our once great community to a rift of lies, deceitfulness and mistrust. It is a complete shambles.
I have absolutely no regrets about coming to work during a strike. I am absolutely certain that the Professional Cabin Crew Council will provide a better way forward for our community. However, if it all goes pear-shaped, I can put my hand on my heart and say I have done everything possible to save our jobs, our community and our company.
I sincerely hope that you can say the same about your role in all of this in a few weeks time.
They only wanted us to work a bit harder.
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Who To Thank?
I flew a full A321 to and from XXX yesterday. 4 CC, 1 of whom was VCC. The pax were at pains to thank us. I stopped everyone of them who did so and personally thanked THEM for sticking with BA during this dispute. It is the passengers who are paying my mortgage.
One last thing. The photos online of BFC - the bloke in his £57000 soft-top car, on his 'phone, with a beer at his feet - enjoy it while it lasts. The rest of us will do what it takes to keep BA flying.
GF
One last thing. The photos online of BFC - the bloke in his £57000 soft-top car, on his 'phone, with a beer at his feet - enjoy it while it lasts. The rest of us will do what it takes to keep BA flying.
GF