British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Juan Tugoh
Pleasant tone as usual.
Ok, so profit is trivia then?
pcf - with regard to the ballot, it was illegal because Unite did not do enough to check who they were balloting, that cannot be questioned. Unite will need to change its relationship with BA too, but that change should be on equal terms.
Ok, so profit is trivia then?
pcf - with regard to the ballot, it was illegal because Unite did not do enough to check who they were balloting, that cannot be questioned. Unite will need to change its relationship with BA too, but that change should be on equal terms.
Junior trash
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Profit's great, but how many of those years did BA make enough to replace their aging fleet in a reasonable timescale? Answer 1. The same year as the dividend.
If BA cant sustainably make that margin they will wither and die like Pan AM, TWA, Swissair and others before them.
If BA cant sustainably make that margin they will wither and die like Pan AM, TWA, Swissair and others before them.
Junior trash
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The only problem with this new one is that logically there wouldn't be any further strike breaking if staff travel was in a settlement.
Course it is. 
I have just heard something which may explain why WW is prepared to give staff travel back to strikers but not with their original seniority.
This is 100% reliable information and not gossip -
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.
So the pilots are holding Walsh to ransom, probably so they get their reward by moving up the staff travel seniority ladder. Makes you wonder who is actually running this airline at present.
Nothing ceases to amaze me any more concerning our so-called colleagues in the cockpit. There may be some "good ones" out there but if they are standing by and letting this happen then they are at least guilty by association.
This is 100% reliable information and not gossip -
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.
So the pilots are holding Walsh to ransom, probably so they get their reward by moving up the staff travel seniority ladder. Makes you wonder who is actually running this airline at present.
Nothing ceases to amaze me any more concerning our so-called colleagues in the cockpit. There may be some "good ones" out there but if they are standing by and letting this happen then they are at least guilty by association.
Last edited by Hotel Mode; 27th Apr 2010 at 09:32.
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how much lower will BASSA stoop?
I'm now at a complete loss to try to rationalise how much lower BASSA can fall.
The suspended branch chair must be getting more and more desperate now, seeing UNITE cobble a proposal behind his back, which does not include automatic reinstatement of suspended and sacked staff.
A proposal that does not include the automatic reinstatement of staff travel, just the predicted start date of some time this year (in this case October 2010)
This combined with a general apathy amongst BASSA members may mean that any proposal would be accepted.
The branch chair, with statements such as the one above, must clearly do everything in their power to scupper any deal such as this, and march Cabin Crew back into a strike which few want.
The suspended branch chair must be getting more and more desperate now, seeing UNITE cobble a proposal behind his back, which does not include automatic reinstatement of suspended and sacked staff.
A proposal that does not include the automatic reinstatement of staff travel, just the predicted start date of some time this year (in this case October 2010)
This combined with a general apathy amongst BASSA members may mean that any proposal would be accepted.
The branch chair, with statements such as the one above, must clearly do everything in their power to scupper any deal such as this, and march Cabin Crew back into a strike which few want.
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Originally Posted by M.Mouse
This would explain what I read on the BALPA forum of the extraordinary situation where volunteer cabin crew have recently flown some rescue flights working alongside regular CC. Whether the regulars included strikers or not I do not know.
Afterall, I can only assume that the reason we're bringing volunteers in is because what the company is trying to do with these flights is operate them outside of the Worldwide Scheduling Agreement - i.e. against the union's wishes.
However, the majority of the destinations (certainly from Heathrow) that relief flights are being sent to are long-range destinations (i.e. money earners). So there's every possibility the lure of the cash will mean some strikers might go ahead and operate.
See, the problem for the majority of the striking crew is that it's going to be difficult to sustain a further period with no income. Following the previous spell of strikes and the week of grounding as a result of the volcano, money is extremely tight.
Indeed, a couple of my friends who DID go on strike said to me that they'd probably have to go to work next time because they can't afford more time off.
I tried to explain that going to work even if they'd gone on strike last time would mean that they are in the same boat as all the other "strike-breaking" crew, including myself. Infact, they'd be in much the situation as those who went to Bedfont on an MBT but when to work the next day......
My friends tried to tell me that it wouldn't because they'd gone on strike first time around and that the only reason they're working second time is because they need the cash, but doesn't everyone who goes to work during a strike have their own reasons for doing it?
For those who went on strike first time around - people for whom I have absolute respect - they've set a prescedent, and going to work during the next strike will make all they've done and all they lost completely pointless.
It's a worrying situation because I personally don't see Walsh budging on the staff travel issue or the suspensions (though I wish he would on some of them). And for Bassa to accept anything less than the complete re-instatement of both travel perks and suspended crew wouldn't really bode well.
Controversial, moi?
What a disgraceful lie from Duncan Holley. 'the pilots' have said no such thing not that it would make an iota of difference to WW's plans. The statemenmt quoted in the post above doesn't even make sense '"....withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking)....' is contradictory.
Litebulbs,
You seriously believe that a meagre annual profit for most of the past 10 years makes a sustainable future? I cannot believe you are stupid so that statement must be a wind up, yes?
Perfectly reasonable if we are talking about market rate for similar work, Ts & Cs. I would be happy to be benchmarked.....again.
Litebulbs,
Long term profitability? In the last 10 years, what is the balance of profitable years, to loss making ones?
Treat every employee the same, new contracts on new fleets/working agreements for all. Reasonable?
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The BASSA branch secretary has admitted that only 2000-3000 are in line to lose staff travel (strange BASSA don't know exactly how well their strike has been supported).
This then broadly reflects the claim made by the company about numbers of Cabin Crew turning up for work during the strike period. Circ 1100 crew turn up daily to work, that's 7700 over the period of the strike, give or take some strikers being caught for both sets of strike dates it shows that the strike was supported ,by using the lower figure of 2000 by 26% to 38% using the 3000 figure, not really enough to have an impact
This then broadly reflects the claim made by the company about numbers of Cabin Crew turning up for work during the strike period. Circ 1100 crew turn up daily to work, that's 7700 over the period of the strike, give or take some strikers being caught for both sets of strike dates it shows that the strike was supported ,by using the lower figure of 2000 by 26% to 38% using the 3000 figure, not really enough to have an impact
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Loss of senority
Loss of seniority in return for staff travel to be reinstated. Would they lose seniority only when it comes to staff travel or also when choosing their working positions, applying for part-time, promotion etc?
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And in further news why is it that Duncan Holley cant stop lying? Does he have some issues? The only problem is that logically there wouldn't be any further strike breaking if staff travel was in a settlement.
Quote:
I have just heard something which may explain why WW is prepared to give staff travel back to strikers but not with their original seniority.
This is 100% reliable information and not gossip -
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.
So the pilots are holding Walsh to ransom, probably so they get their reward by moving up the staff travel seniority ladder. Makes you wonder who is actually running this airline at present.
Nothing ceases to amaze me any more concerning our so-called colleagues in the cockpit. There may be some "good ones" out there but if they are standing by and letting this happen then they are at least guilty by association.
Course it is Duncan.
Quote:
I have just heard something which may explain why WW is prepared to give staff travel back to strikers but not with their original seniority.
This is 100% reliable information and not gossip -
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.
So the pilots are holding Walsh to ransom, probably so they get their reward by moving up the staff travel seniority ladder. Makes you wonder who is actually running this airline at present.
Nothing ceases to amaze me any more concerning our so-called colleagues in the cockpit. There may be some "good ones" out there but if they are standing by and letting this happen then they are at least guilty by association.
Course it is Duncan.
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation" (ie assist in any further strike breaking) if BA fully reinstates our staff travel.
Furthermore, the argument is flawed, if the company were to give staff travel back a deal would more than likely be struck, ergo no need for VCC.
I and all my colleagues have absolutely no doubt
who is actually running this airline at present.
I stand by my first synopsis, this is little more than a fairytale, along the lines of "the 42 year old stewardess" or "an email from someone that went to work"
In short fiction to rally the troops
As a BA pilot and a BALPA member can I add my voice to this, for the benefit of any BA Cabin Crew reading this thread.
The pilots have not said any such thing.
BALPA has not said any such thing.
the pilots have told Walsh they will "withdraw all co-operation"
BALPA has not said any such thing.
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M.Mouse & Co.
BA requested the disruption agreement on the 21/04/10, and Bassa were in agreement. It is due to expire today but may well be extended. Also there was an agreement that long range diversions will be reduced to 1 night rather than the agreement of 2 nights.
Volunteer crew are being used, however there is annoyance that fulltime cabin crew remain unused on standby and 24hr available duties. As a non-striker I find it inflamatory to use volunteer crew in place of regular crew and more so to ask them to work alongside regular crew. It cannot be nice for them either.
BA requested the disruption agreement on the 21/04/10, and Bassa were in agreement. It is due to expire today but may well be extended. Also there was an agreement that long range diversions will be reduced to 1 night rather than the agreement of 2 nights.
Volunteer crew are being used, however there is annoyance that fulltime cabin crew remain unused on standby and 24hr available duties. As a non-striker I find it inflamatory to use volunteer crew in place of regular crew and more so to ask them to work alongside regular crew. It cannot be nice for them either.
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PC767
BA requested the disruption agreement on the 21/04/10, and Bassa were in agreement. It is due to expire today but may well be extended. Also there was an agreement that long range diversions will be reduced to 1 night rather than the agreement of 2 nights.
BA requested the disruption agreement on the 21/04/10, and Bassa were in agreement. It is due to expire today but may well be extended. Also there was an agreement that long range diversions will be reduced to 1 night rather than the agreement of 2 nights.
To be fair an email was sent to all cabin crew on Friday evening by Bill Francis, where he was pleased to confirm that UNITE had agreed to extend the disruption agreement until midnight on Wednesday 28th April.
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I am worried about the implications of imposition
a. Imposition would not have occurred.
b. A fair and reasonable Monthly Travel Payment would be in place which would have stemmed the loss of allowances for those sat at home during Ash Week.
c. No strike would have taken place, therefore no loss of staff travel and the additional bitter dispute it brings with it.
d. Ditto with the suspensions.
e. We would have been sitting on a firm and fair 3 year pay deal - instead Ash Week may well reduce any pay deal even further.
f. Part-time lists would be being actioned.
g. Transfer lists would be being actioned.
h. Disruption payments would still be the same.
i. It is likely, that because of Ash Week, New Fleet would have been delayed or numbers reduced even further.
j. We would have been working to exactly the same crew complements that we are now working to anyway.
k. The possibility of an extra staff ticket, subject to company performance.
l. The possiblity of a bonus in 3 years time.
m. The possiblity of a share scheme.
But by far the most important thing is that there would be no volunteers in place and probably no temps employed to be able to put us in the sorry position that we now find ourselves in. It may well be inflammatory to use volunteer crew in place of regular crew, but sadly we only have ourselves to blame.
All of the above was rejected by Unite on our behalf on a show of hands in a very intimidatory fashion at a Race Course.
So, the 6 million dollar question for the 6 millionth time: Do the BASSA loyalty still think that was the right course of action? If so, how?
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 25th Apr 2010 at 20:08.
Controversial, moi?
From BA's statement 23/04/10:
From Tiramasu a few posts ago:
Does the disruption agreement cover downroute rest reduction?
Litebulbs, I was not insulting you, I assumed you were not serious. Instead of looking for offence where none is present nor intended why not explain your position which appears to be that a multi-million pound company making minimal amounts of money for at least the last 10 years and having all but paid no dividend in that time has a sustainable future trading in that manner?
Who is BarbiesBoyfriend, what does he do to be earning £25K and who is he employed by? I do not understand your reference to pay to fly. I abhor the practice.
Where there is a need for us to alter
normal industrial arrangements, for example to reduce the rest time
downroute in order to bring our customers and colleagues home quickly, we
are asking Unite to agree. Where the union declines our requests, and
unfortunately this has happened today, we will use volunteer cabin crew.
normal industrial arrangements, for example to reduce the rest time
downroute in order to bring our customers and colleagues home quickly, we
are asking Unite to agree. Where the union declines our requests, and
unfortunately this has happened today, we will use volunteer cabin crew.
Fact.
To be fair an email was sent to all cabin crew on Friday evening by Bill Francis, where he was pleased to confirm that UNITE had agreed to extend the disruption agreement until midnight on Wednesday 28th April.
To be fair an email was sent to all cabin crew on Friday evening by Bill Francis, where he was pleased to confirm that UNITE had agreed to extend the disruption agreement until midnight on Wednesday 28th April.
Litebulbs, I was not insulting you, I assumed you were not serious. Instead of looking for offence where none is present nor intended why not explain your position which appears to be that a multi-million pound company making minimal amounts of money for at least the last 10 years and having all but paid no dividend in that time has a sustainable future trading in that manner?
Who is BarbiesBoyfriend, what does he do to be earning £25K and who is he employed by? I do not understand your reference to pay to fly. I abhor the practice.
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Few pilots were used during the last strike and many volunteers were stood down because enough cabin crew turned up for duty. That's if you belive what's being said.
In such case WW shouldn't need to worry about the pilots threatening to withdraw their services if staff travel is reinstated.
In such case WW shouldn't need to worry about the pilots threatening to withdraw their services if staff travel is reinstated.
Junior trash
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Where's the logic there missm? If staff travel has been reinstated then the dispute is therefore over. In which case why on earth would Willy worry about whether the VCCs were willing to do it again? It's just cloud cuckoo land.
MissM
He won't worry because "the pilots" have threatened no such thing. That threat is a figment of a BASSA Reps fevered imagination.
In such case WW shouldn't need to worry about the pilots threatening to withdraw their services if staff travel is reinstated.
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Miss M Your comments amaze me, I can not believe that you feel disgusted that people have not gone on strike and chose to work.. we all have the right to choose what is right for oneself, I respect you for choosing to strike as you believe in striking. I chose not to!!!
I am DISGUSTED in some of the comments on the Bassa forum, people posting that non-strikers are scum, and there is NO excuse for not striking!!
Well let me tell you my reason for not striking.. I have a lovely home and WISH to keep hold of it!!!!!
Is BASSA going to pay my mortgage??? I dont think so, I have seen people posting things like get a mortgage holiday!! get a low rate credit card!! GET real Miss M!!!!! There is a a chap on the Bassa who has posted on the site that his family has been torn apart his house is on the market, what Miss M do you have to say to him?? One lady on the site stated she has every confidence that by April 14th Bassa would GET her staff travel back!!!!!
We all have to accept changes, Bassa have made promises they can not keep, What are you fighting for Miss M???
I am DISGUSTED in some of the comments on the Bassa forum, people posting that non-strikers are scum, and there is NO excuse for not striking!!
Well let me tell you my reason for not striking.. I have a lovely home and WISH to keep hold of it!!!!!
Is BASSA going to pay my mortgage??? I dont think so, I have seen people posting things like get a mortgage holiday!! get a low rate credit card!! GET real Miss M!!!!! There is a a chap on the Bassa who has posted on the site that his family has been torn apart his house is on the market, what Miss M do you have to say to him?? One lady on the site stated she has every confidence that by April 14th Bassa would GET her staff travel back!!!!!
We all have to accept changes, Bassa have made promises they can not keep, What are you fighting for Miss M???