British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Nevermind- thanks for your post, its appreciated.
A Lurker- don't worry im not after sympathy just stating my feelings thats all, but I have got a tough skin and will def be using it during these times! I have never stated that the crew I have flown with since I started I didn't get on with! I have flown every flight with some lovely people! All my posts were stating is that I find it difficult trying to socialize when the topic of IA comes up, as you say, you think im here to take your job away!! Im here to try and help the company survive to be honest!
I don't want to get into a cat and mouse game with you so value all opinions, incl yours and get on with what I am here for.
Eddy- I think ill be taking aleaf out of your book!!
A Lurker- don't worry im not after sympathy just stating my feelings thats all, but I have got a tough skin and will def be using it during these times! I have never stated that the crew I have flown with since I started I didn't get on with! I have flown every flight with some lovely people! All my posts were stating is that I find it difficult trying to socialize when the topic of IA comes up, as you say, you think im here to take your job away!! Im here to try and help the company survive to be honest!
I don't want to get into a cat and mouse game with you so value all opinions, incl yours and get on with what I am here for.
Eddy- I think ill be taking aleaf out of your book!!
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Nevermind
How would you categorise a posting that tells people to stop whining? Is that personal?
He is moaning about nothing - he has said himself that nobody has been nasty - yet his poor feelings are hurt when the nasty cabin crew have a discussion about the strike and he feels 'uncomfortable' - oh dear
Then he says that the big nasty BA promised that they wouldn't have to work with striking crews - and guess what he finds himself on a plane with some crew that went on strike
If you ask me then he should be complaining about BA because it seems he was misled by them
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ptc
As has been stated before, this will be a temporary blip for you.
New Fleet is the future for BA, and you will be part of it. They will be great crews to work with, and in. You'll also be going to some of our best destinations. Old contract crew will not be part of that future. Their way of life potentially could be coming to an end, dramatically hastened in no small part by the total ineptitude of those that claim to represent them.
It's difficult not to sympathise with them to some extent. They have been led, admittedly some willingly, completely up the garden path.
Clearly they will not be happy. But they must always remain professional, and I have little doubt the overwhelming majority will.
As has been stated before, this will be a temporary blip for you.
New Fleet is the future for BA, and you will be part of it. They will be great crews to work with, and in. You'll also be going to some of our best destinations. Old contract crew will not be part of that future. Their way of life potentially could be coming to an end, dramatically hastened in no small part by the total ineptitude of those that claim to represent them.
It's difficult not to sympathise with them to some extent. They have been led, admittedly some willingly, completely up the garden path.
Clearly they will not be happy. But they must always remain professional, and I have little doubt the overwhelming majority will.
Last edited by 4468; 17th Apr 2010 at 11:49.
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A Lurker, Your attitude towards one of your fellow crew members (ptc) who was simply expressing their feelings that I know many crew share is simply terrible. I have recently sat arround the table with many crew and when the issue of strikes come, and it is always the "strikers" that proudly bring it up it is clear from other faces they feel to intimidated to say anything against the "union".
Everyone has their reasons for doing whatever job they want to do without being belittled for doing so. to say "just get on with it" just shows the lack of thought or care you have for fellow crew, I'd hate to think how you pasengers are treated.
As everyone knows this can be a fantastic job, but it does need one major ingedient "teamwork" sadly in BA there are some unionist going out of their way to destroy this, come on guys lets make BA a great place to work at again, even if it is on new fleet !!!
Everyone has their reasons for doing whatever job they want to do without being belittled for doing so. to say "just get on with it" just shows the lack of thought or care you have for fellow crew, I'd hate to think how you pasengers are treated.
As everyone knows this can be a fantastic job, but it does need one major ingedient "teamwork" sadly in BA there are some unionist going out of their way to destroy this, come on guys lets make BA a great place to work at again, even if it is on new fleet !!!
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HiFlyer14
I have never said that I'm disappointed with crew who are not part of a union and went to work during the strike as they really had no choice. The ones I'm very disappointed with are volunteer cabin crew, temporary cabin crew and crew who voted for a strike but didn't go through with it. If you resigned from the union because you felt they were not representing you, fine.
4468
Isn't this colorful?
I have never said that I'm disappointed with crew who are not part of a union and went to work during the strike as they really had no choice. The ones I'm very disappointed with are volunteer cabin crew, temporary cabin crew and crew who voted for a strike but didn't go through with it. If you resigned from the union because you felt they were not representing you, fine.
4468
New Fleet is the future for BA, and you will be part of it. They will be great crews to work with, and in. You'll also be going to some of our best destinations. Old contract crew will not be part of that future. Their way of life potentially could be coming to an end, dramatically hastened in no small part by the total ineptitude of those that claim to represent them.
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when the issue of strikes come, and it is always the "strikers" that proudly bring it up
Im here to try and help the company survive to be honest!
Last edited by ottergirl; 17th Apr 2010 at 12:21.
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Very noble - are you sure you didn't just want to work for BA as CC?
PTC has already stated that they were employed to work here purely for the IA period. None of us knows what they may have had to give up to work here, and it was only for a temporary contract. Do they really deserve such a tone from a SCCM?
I would ask all cabin crew on here to show a modicum of respect to fellow colleagues, be they temporary or permanent, strikers or non. God knows, we may all be lucky to have any kind of a job next week.
Last edited by HiFlyer14; 17th Apr 2010 at 12:32.
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Actually no, it's factual because that's what he has done.
In this case, it is disputable, because many of us don't think PTC is whining. So, it is YOUR opinion that they are.
And, trying to bring the thread back on topic
, you have identified the main problem in this dispute. Many people, like yourself, accept what BASSA say as fact. It is not. It is disputable - "BA will leave us all at home with no work". You see - all opinion, no facts involved.
If we can filter out the fact from fiction, then perhaps we would have a fighting chance of sorting this mess out. In the meantime, Eyjafjallajokull vents her fury, and airlines consider layoffs.
Perhaps your time off would be better spent asking BASSA about what BA could do with the HR1 they have in place. It may stop you laughing when you realise that they could announce 1000 redundancies tomorrow on the strength of it. Oh, silly me, we are BA. We are immune to outside influences affecting our business.
This is a very dark week for aviation, yet the BASSA militants continue with their head in the sand approach. I thought for one fleeting moment that mother nature may be able to get the message across that we have all been trying so hard to. But then I woke up.
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HiFlyer14
Definition of whine
"To express negative feelings,"
Total and utter fabrication on your part - I have opinions and certainly do not accept all what BASSA say as fact
In fact the PCCC website is full of opinion such as - "We represent the voice and views of BA cabin crew" errrrrrr, no you don't
And
"By using effective negotiation and collaboration with BA our positive, can-do approach will enable us to find solutions to the many challenges our industry faces, without compromising the interests of the Cabin crew, the Customer or the Company."
Errrrrrr....... BA dont even recognise your existence so you will find that bit hard
"To express negative feelings,"
Many people, like yourself, accept what BASSA say as fact.
In fact the PCCC website is full of opinion such as - "We represent the voice and views of BA cabin crew" errrrrrr, no you don't
And
"By using effective negotiation and collaboration with BA our positive, can-do approach will enable us to find solutions to the many challenges our industry faces, without compromising the interests of the Cabin crew, the Customer or the Company."
Errrrrrr....... BA dont even recognise your existence so you will find that bit hard
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Hi, all!
HiFlyer, I feel a certain sympathy for the position that PTC is in. I'd say to Lurker that is not completely fair to say that s/he should have known what s/he was being recruited for, and therefore should have expected the occasional uncomfortable moment. Really, from sitting in the holding pool, I'm sure it would have been difficult to imagine quite how it would feel.
However, you insist that Lurker should accept the consequences of his/her behaviour and choices...what is the difference between the two? Why do you believe you can only feel for one of them?
I did also raise an eyebrow at the idea that the motivation for taking the offer to work as a strike breaker was a desire to help the company. I can see how some of the internal volunteers may feel that, after all, they are employed by the company and its interests and self-interest are intertwined. I didn't think that ottergirls gentle irony was an inappropriate tone to take.I think it is perfectly fair to intimate that few people are drawn to work for a company because it needs help.
Your own posts seem quite agressive to me. Old contract crew have no future in BA? Isn't that quite contrary to what BA are claiming? haven't they relentlessly campaigned to claim that the introduction of New Fleet does not mean the end of flying for existing crew?
If you were right, and not merely trying to indimidate, then the previous arguments that the strike is unjustified sound a little hollow. The reason crew voted for and went on strike is because that is exactly what they fear...that BA will no longer be somewhere that we have a future.
HiFlyer, I feel a certain sympathy for the position that PTC is in. I'd say to Lurker that is not completely fair to say that s/he should have known what s/he was being recruited for, and therefore should have expected the occasional uncomfortable moment. Really, from sitting in the holding pool, I'm sure it would have been difficult to imagine quite how it would feel.
However, you insist that Lurker should accept the consequences of his/her behaviour and choices...what is the difference between the two? Why do you believe you can only feel for one of them?
I did also raise an eyebrow at the idea that the motivation for taking the offer to work as a strike breaker was a desire to help the company. I can see how some of the internal volunteers may feel that, after all, they are employed by the company and its interests and self-interest are intertwined. I didn't think that ottergirls gentle irony was an inappropriate tone to take.I think it is perfectly fair to intimate that few people are drawn to work for a company because it needs help.
Your own posts seem quite agressive to me. Old contract crew have no future in BA? Isn't that quite contrary to what BA are claiming? haven't they relentlessly campaigned to claim that the introduction of New Fleet does not mean the end of flying for existing crew?
If you were right, and not merely trying to indimidate, then the previous arguments that the strike is unjustified sound a little hollow. The reason crew voted for and went on strike is because that is exactly what they fear...that BA will no longer be somewhere that we have a future.
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Keeping on thread...
I see that Lurker deleted his question about where on earth I get the 1000 redundancies from.
Well clearly BASSA have let this slip through the net in informing their members. The number, as Lurker correctly stated on his now deleted post, on the HR1 form was for 2000 redundancies. BF states in an Oct webchat:
So, I know that maths is not BASSA's forte, but even primary school children would realise that there is a huge gaping discrepancy there - 989 to be precise. Thanks BASSA. You have left our community wide open now in this current crisis. This is a loophole that could and should have been sealed over last year.
I see that Lurker deleted his question about where on earth I get the 1000 redundancies from.
Well clearly BASSA have let this slip through the net in informing their members. The number, as Lurker correctly stated on his now deleted post, on the HR1 form was for 2000 redundancies. BF states in an Oct webchat:
always said that I would do all I could to allow people the work/lifestyle choice as we moved forward with change. To support this I have offered everyone who asked for it VR (1,011 crew)
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HiFlyer14
And since October how many Crew have left? That was 7 months ago!
Crew have been leaving almost every month - so can you come back with a more accurate figure?
How?
Crew have been leaving almost every month - so can you come back with a more accurate figure?
Thanks BASSA. You have left our community wide open now in this current crisis. This is a loophole that could and should have been sealed over last year.
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Reargunner,
I'm sorry I have read your post over several times and am at a loss to know what point you are making.
To answer some of it:
I used quotation marks in my reply to Lurker because I was using his own wording from a previous post. Hence the at the end of the post. It was not my language, it was his, and I used it purposely to demonstrate that he was being somewhat unreasonable - and somewhat agressive. Could it be this "tongue in cheekness" that made you feel my post was aggressive?
Also, where have I said that "old contract crew have no future in BA?" I sincerely hope not, being one myself.
Ottergirls' post may well have been meant as "gentle irony". But there are two pages or more of quite harsh rebukes to PTC (who hasn't done anything wrong) and someone in Ottergirls' position should, in my opinion, rise above joining in with unfair and unnecessary lambasting of a colleague. Hence my request to all of us cabin crew to show some respect for one another. It's not too much to ask is it?
Lurker - crew resigning and crew being made redundant are two totally different things. In all honesty mate, you really need to be having this conversation with BASSA/Amicus not me.
I'm sorry I have read your post over several times and am at a loss to know what point you are making.
To answer some of it:
I used quotation marks in my reply to Lurker because I was using his own wording from a previous post. Hence the
at the end of the post. It was not my language, it was his, and I used it purposely to demonstrate that he was being somewhat unreasonable - and somewhat agressive. Could it be this "tongue in cheekness" that made you feel my post was aggressive?Also, where have I said that "old contract crew have no future in BA?" I sincerely hope not, being one myself.
Ottergirls' post may well have been meant as "gentle irony". But there are two pages or more of quite harsh rebukes to PTC (who hasn't done anything wrong) and someone in Ottergirls' position should, in my opinion, rise above joining in with unfair and unnecessary lambasting of a colleague. Hence my request to all of us cabin crew to show some respect for one another. It's not too much to ask is it?
Lurker - crew resigning and crew being made redundant are two totally different things. In all honesty mate, you really need to be having this conversation with BASSA/Amicus not me.
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HiFlyer14
Lurker - crew resigning and crew being made redundant are two totally different things.
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Lurker
BF said:
Are you saying that crew who left in Jan/Feb are in addition to the 1011 crew? If so, where is that in writing please from BF?
My understanding is that all VR people left before Christmas. Hence the reason why the Christmas ballot was illegal - because it went to some people who had already left. Happy to stand corrected though.
Thanks
BF said:
To support this I have offered everyone who asked for it VR (1,011 crew)
My understanding is that all VR people left before Christmas. Hence the reason why the Christmas ballot was illegal - because it went to some people who had already left. Happy to stand corrected though.
Thanks
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Originally posted by 4468
New Fleet is the future for BA, and you will be part of it. They will be great crews to work with, and in. You'll also be going to some of our best destinations. Old contract crew will not be part of that future. Their way of life potentially could be coming to an end, dramatically hastened in no small part by the total ineptitude of those that claim to represent them.
New Fleet is the future for BA, and you will be part of it. They will be great crews to work with, and in. You'll also be going to some of our best destinations. Old contract crew will not be part of that future. Their way of life potentially could be coming to an end, dramatically hastened in no small part by the total ineptitude of those that claim to represent them.
Posted by Reargunner
Old contract crew have no future in BA? Isn't that quite contrary to what BA are claiming? haven't they relentlessly campaigned to claim that the introduction of New Fleet does not mean the end of flying for existing crew?
Old contract crew have no future in BA? Isn't that quite contrary to what BA are claiming? haven't they relentlessly campaigned to claim that the introduction of New Fleet does not mean the end of flying for existing crew?
May I correct you please, in Hiflyer's defence it's 4468 who mentioned the above.
As for New Fleet, who's to say that current crew may not be interested in applying to New Fleet for promotion anyway.
Reargunner, are you cabin crew and if not which part of BA do you work in please?
Last edited by Tiramisu; 17th Apr 2010 at 14:13. Reason: Edited to add quote
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I do appologise HiFlyer...the non-future for old contract crew was predicted by 4468...
The rest of my post was merely pointing out to you that you respond to PTC's complaint that s/he is uncomfortable socialising with strikers because s/he took a job as a strike-breaker with compassion. When Lurker says this is a result of chosing to take that role, you tell him that he should accept the consequences of his choice to strike.
I just wondered why you feel that his suggestion that PTC should 'live with it' is aggressive and unsympathetic while your implied suggestion that Lurker should 'live with it' isn't?
PS. BASSA did inform us that BA had taken out a HR1, and obviously, this weeks events make it more likely that they will choose to use it.
Old contract crew will not be part of that future.
I just wondered why you feel that his suggestion that PTC should 'live with it' is aggressive and unsympathetic while your implied suggestion that Lurker should 'live with it' isn't?
PS. BASSA did inform us that BA had taken out a HR1, and obviously, this weeks events make it more likely that they will choose to use it.