British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Miss M,
Discrimination, in legal terms, is a very clearly defined term. An employer may not discriminate by race, colour, gender or age. Applying different terms based on any other criteria may not be fair, but discriminatory, it is not. Besides, being non-contractual, it matters not anyway.
There is a big difference between what one may believe is morally right, and what is legally so.
Discrimination, in legal terms, is a very clearly defined term. An employer may not discriminate by race, colour, gender or age. Applying different terms based on any other criteria may not be fair, but discriminatory, it is not. Besides, being non-contractual, it matters not anyway.
There is a big difference between what one may believe is morally right, and what is legally so.
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Why on earth would he/she do this? It would simply open the door to more industrial unrest - IMHO far better to leave a permanent reminder to everyone else that striking has consequences so you'd better not do it.
Our contracts already are as basic as you suggest here:
The basic contact should be along the lines of:
-You are to work for the company employed at the agreed salary.
-Your hours and rosters will be in accordance with CAA regulations.
- You will report for work punctually, do the job as defined by the company with the resources you are given and you will do it cheerfully.
- All other legal requirements of employer and employee are in accordance with UK employment law.
-You are to work for the company employed at the agreed salary.
-Your hours and rosters will be in accordance with CAA regulations.
- You will report for work punctually, do the job as defined by the company with the resources you are given and you will do it cheerfully.
- All other legal requirements of employer and employee are in accordance with UK employment law.
I would have thought it would create utter chaos. Surely a corporation needs a balance between flexibility and rigidity? Not totally one or the other?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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I don't believe that breaking a strike is anything to be rewarded for. It's nothing but a very disgusting behavior that is not acceptable
but I should thought that all of those ground staff and pilots enjoyed their little time at the trolley. If you had all that time to be away from your regular job it must be a sign that sometimes is superfluous.
It doesn't take a degree in law to understand that it's discriminatory and wrong.
I understand the company are using an unnecessary night stop in Shannon on Monday night to highlight to investors why 1970s cabin crew contracts need to be altered to reflect the challenges of operating in 2010
Talk about crew shooting themselves in the foot, interestingly all the other widebodies were able to fuel and go.If I were crew I would be more concerned about the quality of information BASSA have been supply from November 2008 to the present day, and how BA can crew 3 747 departures with volunteer crew without as much of a whimper from BASSA
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Edited to add
I'm so, so sorry to hear this...our posts crossed and I don't want you to imagine I ignored your much more important message.
Please be carfeful about expressing your feeling here or anywhere else. You are frightened and angry, don't give them anything else to use and manipulate.
The fact is that the law is indeed a strange place for most people. A possible case over staff travel is not impossible just because the company declare it to be discretionary.
There are legal precedents which show that the courts will still consider whether it has become contractual through custom and practice.
The company have to make a case for the discretion they use in applying or withholding discretionary benefits.
There are individuals who seem to have a slightly different case based on the fact that some staff travel is awarded for promotion...all sorts of possible complications.
However, I totally agree that it is a long, slow, and expensive way to go.
The only certain thing with the law is that it is never certain.
I'm so, so sorry to hear this...our posts crossed and I don't want you to imagine I ignored your much more important message.
Please be carfeful about expressing your feeling here or anywhere else. You are frightened and angry, don't give them anything else to use and manipulate.
The fact is that the law is indeed a strange place for most people. A possible case over staff travel is not impossible just because the company declare it to be discretionary.
There are legal precedents which show that the courts will still consider whether it has become contractual through custom and practice.
The company have to make a case for the discretion they use in applying or withholding discretionary benefits.
There are individuals who seem to have a slightly different case based on the fact that some staff travel is awarded for promotion...all sorts of possible complications.
However, I totally agree that it is a long, slow, and expensive way to go.
The only certain thing with the law is that it is never certain.
the lunatic fringe
Join Date: May 2001
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Jemina:
If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then I am sure you will be reinstated.
The sad truth is that once war is declared the innocent become collateral damage.
If what you say is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, then I am sure you will be reinstated.
The sad truth is that once war is declared the innocent become collateral damage.
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Jemina,
I echo L337's comments and would like to add, that new ways of people communicating like Facebook and forums such as these, have only been around a relatively short time and what is and isn't possible with them is a mystery to many, myself included.
If you can so easily, unwittingly become a "bully" via what OTHERS imput onto your space, that's worrying indeed. It sounds like you need to take an expert in how mediums such as Facebook work, into your disciplinary hearing with you. If you can prove that it's possible to appear guilty as easily as you say through no action on your part, I would think you have a good chance of winning.
Try to be calm and reasonable in your approach, rather than combatitive, even though I know it must be hard for you. In my experience, that's the best way to get a favourable hearing.
Good luck.
I echo L337's comments and would like to add, that new ways of people communicating like Facebook and forums such as these, have only been around a relatively short time and what is and isn't possible with them is a mystery to many, myself included.
If you can so easily, unwittingly become a "bully" via what OTHERS imput onto your space, that's worrying indeed. It sounds like you need to take an expert in how mediums such as Facebook work, into your disciplinary hearing with you. If you can prove that it's possible to appear guilty as easily as you say through no action on your part, I would think you have a good chance of winning.
Try to be calm and reasonable in your approach, rather than combatitive, even though I know it must be hard for you. In my experience, that's the best way to get a favourable hearing.
Good luck.
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Hi Jemima,
If your version of events is 100% true, then i can't see how you will not be reinstated.
Its seems you've been 'naive' at worst.
If you do lose your job and your post isn't missing any salient points then you seem to have a very good case for unfair dismissal. I'm sure however BA will treat you fairly in your hearing though ??
Good luck.
If your version of events is 100% true, then i can't see how you will not be reinstated.
Its seems you've been 'naive' at worst.
If you do lose your job and your post isn't missing any salient points then you seem to have a very good case for unfair dismissal. I'm sure however BA will treat you fairly in your hearing though ??
Good luck.
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If your version of events is 100% true, then i can't see how you will not be reinstated.
Its seems you've been 'naive' at worst
Its seems you've been 'naive' at worst
You have been suckered in, and treated for a fool --- by Bassa.
Bassa have lied and misled you relentlessly. In fact they have shown by example how NOT to be honest , open, objective and informative.
Bassa have done their very best to incite hatred and division amongst all BA staff, especially crew. At no time have Bassa tried to stop the intimidation of "scabs" or vcc; or anyone who dares to speak out or question the Bassa line!
BA have a duty to protect EVERYBODY.
So if a complaint is made they have to follow it up.
This is why there will be no amnesty because justice must be done, and be seen to be done.
If all Jemima did was to receive some messages on her wall then it is impossible that she would be sacked.
However somebody, somewhere, must have initiated the message.
What did it say? Was it a threat? Or a list of volunteers?
Jemima, you are also a victim because you have been suspended at a similar time as many of your colleagues. Some of their offences are probably significantly more serious and may well be sackable, if not criminal, offences.
As a fellow BA staff member I would defend your right to a fair hearing fiercely.
Just as I would defend any victim of bullying or harrassment.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Jemina
Hang in there, I'm sure it will all work out fine in the end. If you feel like it, by asking BA for a timetable of what is going to happen and when you can return to work (be positive presumptious in a friendly way) it might chivvy them along to make a decision and probably give you the 'don't do it again' stern talking to. If you make an explicit request for a timetable and they don't respond a lawyer would make it look like they were being unreasonable and bullying.
I'd recommend you to write a full and detailed account of what happened for your own records. Ask someone you trust to read it so that it is thoroughly proof read and very clear if you ever had to rely on it at a later stage. I'd be surprised if you would have to though. Probably worthwhile to make sure BA get a copy if they call you in for a chat so that they can't argue they weren't aware of your side.
I hope your Union are supporting you with appropriate legal support/advice?
I'd recommend you to write a full and detailed account of what happened for your own records. Ask someone you trust to read it so that it is thoroughly proof read and very clear if you ever had to rely on it at a later stage. I'd be surprised if you would have to though. Probably worthwhile to make sure BA get a copy if they call you in for a chat so that they can't argue they weren't aware of your side.
I hope your Union are supporting you with appropriate legal support/advice?
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Jemina
Fully support what deamon monkey says. Tried to send you a mail but got a mailbox quota reply saying full up. This suggests that folk out here care for you unlike BA perhaps. They only worry about WW's ego.
Don't let the buggers get you down
Fully support what deamon monkey says. Tried to send you a mail but got a mailbox quota reply saying full up. This suggests that folk out here care for you unlike BA perhaps. They only worry about WW's ego.
Don't let the buggers get you down
Junior trash
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Not meaning to be cynical but..
From
Even from BASSA i'm not seeing anyone suspended simply for having stuff not written by them on their Facebook wall.
From
BASSA > Latest News > More Worldwide Fleet News
SUSPENDED CREW - THE BRUTAL AND FRIGHTENING TRUTH
Mar 14th, 2010 by admin
SUSPENDED CREW - THE BRUTAL AND FRIGHTENING TRUTH
Mar 14th, 2010 by admin
These are the suspended parties
FACEBOOK
•Crew member 1: His facebook page. Several comments re his desire to name and shame list of scab flight crew though he never actually does.
•Crew member 2: Several comments regarding wanting to know the names and gossip regarding one of the flight crew who is never named but whose identity is confirmed as being "the one they both know"
•Crew member 3: One comment: Send me a private msg. Good to know who not to trust x
•Crew member 4: His facebook page: several comments re the fact that he is in possession of the list of flight crew training as cabin crew, how he is in two minds what to do with it but how he will not post it publicly because he knows one of them personally very well.
•Crew member 5: Asks for the list and says she will pass it on.
•Crew member 6: One comment: Name and shame, honey, I say!
•Crew member 7: One comment: Can you private message me please?
•Crew member 8: One comment: Please forward the sms to me
•Crew member 9: One comment agreeing with calls to name and shame and adds that she wants all the necks she can get her hands on.
•Crew member 10: One comment: Name and shame
•Crew member 11: One comment: suggesting the name be sent to a third party for that party to name and shame.
•Crew member 12: One comment: saying he would like to know the names and asking to be texted.
•Crew member 13: One comment saying do not post the names in any chat rooms or forums and to pass the list to BASSA.
•Crew member 14: One comment asking for the list in a private message.
•Crew member 1: His facebook page. Several comments re his desire to name and shame list of scab flight crew though he never actually does.
•Crew member 2: Several comments regarding wanting to know the names and gossip regarding one of the flight crew who is never named but whose identity is confirmed as being "the one they both know"
•Crew member 3: One comment: Send me a private msg. Good to know who not to trust x
•Crew member 4: His facebook page: several comments re the fact that he is in possession of the list of flight crew training as cabin crew, how he is in two minds what to do with it but how he will not post it publicly because he knows one of them personally very well.
•Crew member 5: Asks for the list and says she will pass it on.
•Crew member 6: One comment: Name and shame, honey, I say!
•Crew member 7: One comment: Can you private message me please?
•Crew member 8: One comment: Please forward the sms to me
•Crew member 9: One comment agreeing with calls to name and shame and adds that she wants all the necks she can get her hands on.
•Crew member 10: One comment: Name and shame
•Crew member 11: One comment: suggesting the name be sent to a third party for that party to name and shame.
•Crew member 12: One comment: saying he would like to know the names and asking to be texted.
•Crew member 13: One comment saying do not post the names in any chat rooms or forums and to pass the list to BASSA.
•Crew member 14: One comment asking for the list in a private message.
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Are you sure that Jemina is in BASSA? She doesn't say anything about union membership...only that she does not take part in strikes. Could be non union or part of CC89/Amicus?
What do you think about todays request (from BA) that we work with regular crews but include 2 volunteer crew members to get through the repatriation and back to a normal schedule?
I find it hard to understand how the need to keep their identities secret (like in the facebook suspensions etc) can be made to fit with them working along with regular crew.
winston...yes it is a very old list...galley fm says there are about 50 suspended and 6 sacked.
What do you think about todays request (from BA) that we work with regular crews but include 2 volunteer crew members to get through the repatriation and back to a normal schedule?
I find it hard to understand how the need to keep their identities secret (like in the facebook suspensions etc) can be made to fit with them working along with regular crew.
winston...yes it is a very old list...galley fm says there are about 50 suspended and 6 sacked.
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Hand Solo
What complete tosh! BA CC have always been Performance Managed, everyone is assessed on the a/c every 120 days. CSD's have an annual appraisal where one of our KPI's is how many assessments we have completed on our crew. Additionally, the CCM team manage attendance and punctuality in a very pro-active way. UK employment law does not allow one to simply 'performance manage' the bottom 10% out of the company; there is a very lengthy series of warnings and stages beforehand. 
The problem is Ozzie that BA are starting to introduce performance management for crew. Newfleet will be first then it will be rolled out into old fleet. Crew will no longer be able to come along just for the ride aan the pay cheque. Everyone will be assessed, and those who aren't up to scratch will be performance managed out of the company. BA may not get the best out of you but you don't want to be among the bottom 10% when the new regime is in place.
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ottergirl
Think you misunderstand performance management - it would be performed on a per flight basis based upon customer surveys - the same as is norm in many industries....
Last edited by harrypic; 23rd Apr 2010 at 23:11. Reason: spelling