British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Apologies wascrew, I thought you were referring to the 'attendance allowance' which was being considered to encourage crew not to go sick, and to offer an additional buffer to any salary loss or fear of. Sorry my error.
Six
Six
Last edited by sixmilehighclub; 25th Feb 2010 at 11:52. Reason: I can't spell!
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NOPE
sixmile
apology accepted i presume we are talking about the same thing......??
there will be no choice to accept the new payment individually
the union either agree to it or not
if they do agree and negotiate on it they mitigate against lucrative routes being transferred
if they dont BA will move which routes they like. which do you think they will start with
its long time overdue that the lottery of getting a good trip or not was removed the pilots did this to most if not everyones satisfaction why cant cabin crew?
i repeat though no agreement and everyone on new fleet by 90 day SOSR
what would you like your union to negotiate on?
apology accepted i presume we are talking about the same thing......??
there will be no choice to accept the new payment individually
the union either agree to it or not
if they do agree and negotiate on it they mitigate against lucrative routes being transferred
if they dont BA will move which routes they like. which do you think they will start with
its long time overdue that the lottery of getting a good trip or not was removed the pilots did this to most if not everyones satisfaction why cant cabin crew?
i repeat though no agreement and everyone on new fleet by 90 day SOSR
what would you like your union to negotiate on?
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Originally Posted by sixmilehighclub
The figure for this fixed allowance payment is about £8k per annum I believe. This will be fully taxable under UK taxation, unlike now where allowances are partially non taxable, as most of the allowances are triggered overseas.
The tax system allows for crew pay to be a little higher. Under the new system it would result in loss of pay.
The tax system allows for crew pay to be a little higher. Under the new system it would result in loss of pay.
As I understand it, and am more than happy to be corrected, this fixed payment is to replace things like box payments and b2b payments on LH, and things like long day, CAT payments etc on SH. It is NOT to replace meal allowances.
As far as tax goes, it is the meal allowances that attract a lower rate of tax, because the idea is that crew spend them on food overseas, and it is not part of their income (although the tax receipts exercise showed the truth of the matter, hence the adjustment)
I understand that things like box payments and CAT payments are taxed normally, because they are just part of pay, and not for subsistence.
I predict that if this system comes in, then overnight the most popular trips will become the shortest ones, tempered by a factor taking in to account meal allowances. For example, if you are on a fixed payment, why have the drag of going all the way to NRT if it makes no difference in terms of box payments? I reckon middle east trips with expensive hotels "to eat in" will become the prime trips.
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sixmilehighclub
Re. your comment on the taxable element of the fixed payment.
My understanding is the the 'Fixed Payment' (circa £8000, but not yet negotiated on) is in lieu of overtime, box payments etc........and is in addition to meal allowances.
So your pay each month would be Fixed payment(taxed) + basic(taxed) + meal allowance(partially taxed)
ie: there would be no change in total taxation.
(Willing to be corrected, my understanding only)
My understanding is the the 'Fixed Payment' (circa £8000, but not yet negotiated on) is in lieu of overtime, box payments etc........and is in addition to meal allowances.
So your pay each month would be Fixed payment(taxed) + basic(taxed) + meal allowance(partially taxed)
ie: there would be no change in total taxation.
(Willing to be corrected, my understanding only)
Last edited by dave747436; 25th Feb 2010 at 12:19.
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6MHC your earlier post is interesting - so imposition is NOT worrying CC. So what the heck is all this ballot nonsense about? A truly silly mess, orchestrated by.....well, it's all been said before.
GF
GF
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If you can convince T5 security of that I'm sure BA would be very grateful!
Do they have the same problem at Gatwick North?
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I am quite possibly wrong regarding figures and taxation there, and should re-read before posting, and would love to know the exact facts and figures.
My main point is really that there is an air of uncertainty. The crew I have spoken to (and this in no way a majority!) are concerned that there is no clarity with what is on offer, and no reasurance that soon down the line, any changes now will allow for bigger changes.
My concern is that if the crew aren't going to lose money by accepting this new payment, how does it save BA money, and whats the point in it??
Whilst I support the need to recover a business before its too late, I also see the fear and uncertainty many are feeling over all this, crew, employees, passengers alike. It needs to be resolved. But with both sides standing stubborn and refusing to budge, wheres it going to go?
My main point is really that there is an air of uncertainty. The crew I have spoken to (and this in no way a majority!) are concerned that there is no clarity with what is on offer, and no reasurance that soon down the line, any changes now will allow for bigger changes.
My concern is that if the crew aren't going to lose money by accepting this new payment, how does it save BA money, and whats the point in it??
Whilst I support the need to recover a business before its too late, I also see the fear and uncertainty many are feeling over all this, crew, employees, passengers alike. It needs to be resolved. But with both sides standing stubborn and refusing to budge, wheres it going to go?
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My main point is really that there is an air of uncertainty. The crew I have spoken to (and this in no way a majority!) are concerned that there is no clarity with what is on offer
My concern is that if the crew aren't going to lose money by accepting this new payment, how does it save BA money, and whats the point in it??
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My concern is that if the crew aren't going to lose money by accepting this new payment, how does it save BA money, and whats the point in it??
There are 2 main ways of making the savings,
a)Everyone takes a bit of pain, but they all remain on the same contract together, and keep solidarity and the same bargaining group. (like the pilots)
b)The "I'm alright Jack, screw the newbies, they know what they're signing up for, I want to keep all my money thanks" (this is the traditional BASSA way, hence '97 contracts, LGW, BHX, MAN, GLA etc etc etc)
If crew want to not give anything up (apart from working a little bit harder), then the savings have to come from New Fleet. This fixed payment is just to convince BASSA that BA are not out to impoverish you all and take the shirts off your child's back. They never wanted that.
They need to save money, they tried to negotiate, BASSA wouldn't (see the undisputed chronology in the latest court judgement). The money has to be saved one way or another, you can either have a say, or you have no say. Stamping your feet isn't helping your members, especially when your members clearly don't have the balls for a strike. (otherwise one would have been called today)
All these things have been on the table since June. BASSA just didn't tell you about it, and they certainly won't highlight it now, as they could have achieved what they are likely to in the next few weeks without marching you all up the hill and down again several times.
As the Judge said the union "glossed over the fiasco at ACAS" (the fiasco being the two halves of the union squabbling like idiots and refusing to sit in the same room!)
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The lack of a strike announcement suggests that BASSA/UNITE don't have the B@lls.
What a total shambles.
I hope some further impositions are very quickly following this lack of an announcement.
I bet Loony Len and LaLa are felling all powerful at the moment with the hold they have over the company and millions of travelling public. Meglomania in action
CB
What a total shambles.
I hope some further impositions are very quickly following this lack of an announcement.
I bet Loony Len and LaLa are felling all powerful at the moment with the hold they have over the company and millions of travelling public. Meglomania in action
CB
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Public McClucking v Private face of UNITE
Erm, I bet they are not. The no strike call is a sign of extreme weakness. IMHO. UNITE's public display of McClucking, verses private musings over what is reality, are 2 different beasts. BA has BASSA over a barrel. BASSA have absolutely nowhere to go, and they know it. But they didn't tell their members at kempton. Standby for the skewed rhetoric to flow.
GF
GF
Last edited by IYCSWICSWICW; 25th Feb 2010 at 12:56. Reason: Daft Spelling
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I stand by the information that came by me this morning (post 1397) further I have been told that a new person has been bought in at UNITE, to help Len Mc to deal with the hardliners running BASSA.
Todays events at Kempton kind of bear this out. The strategy of drawing out the threat of strike action is the last card that UNITE/BASSA can play.
Conversely it gives BA more time to train volunteers and get the temps that have been called, back on-line.
I still bet Walsh is in no mood to compromise or extend any peace offering towards BASSA/UNITE to help them save face.
Todays events at Kempton kind of bear this out. The strategy of drawing out the threat of strike action is the last card that UNITE/BASSA can play.
Conversely it gives BA more time to train volunteers and get the temps that have been called, back on-line.
I still bet Walsh is in no mood to compromise or extend any peace offering towards BASSA/UNITE to help them save face.
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Why would BASSA want to call the strike now?
They are only interested in causing the maximum damage to BA.
At the same time they do not wish to lose any pay.
By holding the threat of IA over BA and it's customers they cause the loss of many bookings - at great cost to BA - but at no cost to themselves.
They are only interested in causing the maximum damage to BA.
At the same time they do not wish to lose any pay.
By holding the threat of IA over BA and it's customers they cause the loss of many bookings - at great cost to BA - but at no cost to themselves.
Last edited by BillS; 25th Feb 2010 at 13:08. Reason: missing word
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Strike Announcements
Pornpants1/Clarified
Although 14th/15th March is the initial cut off for announcement of IA, BASSA can apply for an extension to the deadline to double the normal timeframe.
Whether they would get the extension is another matter entirely.
Personally for the future of BA, I hope that management do not give in on anything and refuse to discuss any other matters until the current arguments are resolved.
To do anything else will be prtrayed by BASSA as a victory, and of course swallowed hook, line and sinker by the membership.
Although 14th/15th March is the initial cut off for announcement of IA, BASSA can apply for an extension to the deadline to double the normal timeframe.
Whether they would get the extension is another matter entirely.
Personally for the future of BA, I hope that management do not give in on anything and refuse to discuss any other matters until the current arguments are resolved.
To do anything else will be prtrayed by BASSA as a victory, and of course swallowed hook, line and sinker by the membership.
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Hello Winstonsmith
Talks to continue with the company - no dates for strike announced - BASSA convinced they have the upper hand because of the outcome of the ballot.
I am missing something, the facts are more than half the cabin crew did not pursue claims against the company in the high court.
The ballot result represented approx 64% of ballot forms sent out being returned with a 'yes'. (11691 sent out and 7482 back with a yes).
That leaves approx 35% doing one of the following: Voting 'No', not taking part in the ballot for what ever reason or a few ballot papers being spoilt.
There are also a growing number of us who are not in a union.
I don't think this represents solid ground.
(My views not my company's or any other party).
To Anotherthing.
Just read your post above. You're correct about applying for an extension, however I think the company have to agree to that.
Any legal eagles confirm please?
Just done my own research, the employer has to agree to any extension.
The only other exception is if there is a legal process underway. (court hearings etc).
Last edited by Clarified; 25th Feb 2010 at 13:31.