British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[Snas]

I would agree that LFT's figures are probably no more then educated guesses err'ing on the BA win side of things, however, if the proportion of strike supporters on this forum (there used to be a fair few remember) are anything close to an indication of support within the company perhaps the number that actually strike will be rather low.

[Human Factor]

My guess is 5000+ crew available on strike day one, made up of non-strikers, volunteers, etc. Plenty to crew a large portion of the operation. It'll be awfully lonely on that picket line watching the fleet get airborne.

[Sunshine Express]

tomkins

Could you explain what the LGW crew think that they may gain by striking?

This is a genuine question, not a dig at you or the crew.

[Caribbean Boy]

So lets work this out - during a potential strike, BA will have access to :-

-c.2000-3000 volunteers
-majority of gatwick crew (who gain little from this strike) - 3,000?
-CC who have left BA & being invited back from their previous short term 12 month contracts
-(1000/2000 ?) CC who are not members of the union
-cabin crew that decide they are not striking
TOTAL 7,000-10,000 perhaps ?

Suppose that there is a 70% turnout and that 70% of crew vote for a strike, ie about half of Unite's membership. If all who voted for a strike did strike and all who didn't continued to work, there would be roughly 7,500 working. If you add some hundreds of volunteer crew (the SEP trainers cannot just hugely increase the numbers they train) plus the following:

- some "air volunteers" in the cabin to hand out bottles of water and towels, clear rubbish, etc
- wet-lease of aircraft, so no need for any BA crew
- as you said, putting on bigger aircraft on some routes

In short, I would expect a majority of BA flights to operate. OK, pax won't always get a meal service but, if informed in advance, they can always bring their own food and drink on board.

Nobody knows what could happen, but it has the potential for many CC to lose their jobs

If the dispute (maybe involving multiple strikes) drags on for 12 weeks, BA might feel it necessary to serve a 90-day SOSR on cabin crew, offering them the new contract. Those who don't sign the new contract would be sacked.

[BentleyH]

Operation during the strike

All,

Don't forget, we are only being trained to operate 777s and Airbus aircraft.
If we are able to fly all of these aircraft, it will represent about 60% of our normal flying. I know for a fact we won't be flying domestics for example and all the 75/76 and 747-400 fleets will be grounded initially.

Hopefully, we might be able to operate most of the Airbus and 777s but that will of course be dependent on how many normal crew come to work.

[tomkins]

Sunshine Express;
havn't got a clue.You had better ask THEM.

[Clarified]

BentleyH re. SCCM

Caribbean Boy,

I'm afraid you are mistaken. The pilots completing the course will be the SCCM. We are being entered into TRACIE (the cabin crew rostering system) and will be rostered in exactly the same way as current SCCM. This will include conducting the briefing, sitting at 1L, taking any NITS briefings, allocating working positions etc etc. We will also continue to operate as SCCMs until the operation is fully back on it's feet.
Hello Bentley,

I don't want to get drawn into your SCCM debate, however one thing I really like about this forum is its objectivity.
Therefore, if you fly can I draw your attention to JPM's and the SCCM role.
One years operating experience as cabin crew and the appropriate promotion course.
In unforseen circumastances one years experience is still required.

[Matt101]

Hey Clarified,

I am playing devils advocate a lot, but Bentley did say it was only those with previous crewing experience that had been brought along to the SCCM course. We know at LGW for example that some pursers were promoted based on their previous crew experience at another airline (6 months gained internally and 6 months in a prior role). It would be interesting to see the CAA regs on experience and recency thereof if anyone can find it?

[617sqn]

Volunteer crew as sccm

My thoughts about the reason behind this is what Bently explained.
I can see that it is better for BA to have volunteers as sccm as they know they will turn up and can plan ahead.
I can forsee a problem for some crew with this though.
Those that have not got promotion may not relish the idea of a volunteer being in charge.
If this is not handled correctly it could go horribly wrong.
The volunteer pilots will be trained as CSDs

[tomkins]

Can't quite get my head round this idea that the the flight crew volunteers are to be the sccms.Surely BA must have a good idea of non striking crew who would be far more qualified to do the job.

[malcolmf]

The volunteers who are training as CSD have one years experience as CC, not necessarily recently.
This raises the interesting scenario of a volunteer CSD FO with some senior Captain as crew

[617sqn]

Volunteers as sccm

Another interesting scenario:
A n ex crew member who only did 1 or 2 years and then got a ground job.They are now a volunteer CSD overseeing crew who have done 20 years.

I know these are difficult circumstances in difficult times but it is better to discuss it here so we can have sensible answers when faced with this on board.

[Clarified]

Bentley H and Matt101

Apologies,
just read post 90, thanks for the heads up.

C

[petdemouche]

Hey Bentley, how sure are you about the fact that the 747s will be grounded ?
That means that many highly loaded routes like HKG etc will be cancelled ?
I can't really believe that...

Any other opinions on that ?

[earleyboy]

Wet lease aircraft maybe

[midman]

I thnk the point to remember is that if it comes to the crunch and we are all sitting in the briefing room with an FO CSD, main crew comprising normal cc, captains, engineers, mNagers etc, it's not going to be like your usual trip.

All volunteers will need support from regular crewmembers, 'seniority' will not come into allocating working positions; the priority will be to gain the best spread of experience round the aircraft (no "but i always work in club"!), and if I am the operating captain on such a flight I will be in the briefing liaising with whoever the csd is to achieve that spread. Remember that is part of the captain's reponsibility.

We will be workng to scheme, min rest, being flexible, reactive and 'can do' not looking at our agreements to see if it's approved by Bassa.

We will all be helping each other out at evey stage, not worrying about relative seniority.

[anything]

For the company to plan the operation they do need SCCM's who have cc experience. Existing crew cannot be used for this purpose as they may go on strike. I would be happy for any flight crew member to be a SCCM because they have the necessary leadership, communication skills and operational knowledge necessary for the role.

And if I can say, slightly tongue in cheek, it is technically a temporary demotion for them.

Anyway back to where the debate should be and that is to try and work out if there is any way BASSA can dig itself out of this huge hole.

[midman]

If BA think they have enough crew, volunteers or otherwise, the 744s will be pressed into action pretty sharpish I would think ( remember MBTs will be out of the window so the schedule will be flyable with less than the usual numbers).

As for experienced main crew working under a pilot sccm, it may be awkward but BA have to be sure that they have a supply of sccms available on the day. They can't train all main crew on the one day course in the hope that a few won't strike, they have to use the volunteers they know will turn up.

As for crew having difficulties with that situation, as I posted above, the idea is that the can do attitude will prevail, not one where people look for reasons why something shouldn't happen.
Perhaps this may well reflect the new approach in IFCE once this sorry mess is all over.

[wascrew]

ballot form

What exactly was the wording on the strike ballot form?
Will it make a difference to the validity of the ballot if BASSA lose the court case?

MOO any update from your mole in the court house?

[TorC]

Originally Posted by midman

.... the idea is that the can do attitude will prevail, not one where people look for reasons why something shouldn't happen.
Perhaps this may well reflect the new approach in IFCE once this sorry mess is all over.

We can but hope.

I'm often being told by fellow crew that I "didn't have to do that". My reply: "This job isn't about what I HAVE to do, it's about what I CAN do".