British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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As mentioned - lets be realistic. The junior FO with a years experience as CC elsewhere is NOT going to be turning up and demanding people do it his way. As with all good leaders, he will use whatever experience exists among his team to get the best result on the day.
If he has a senior skipper working as part of that team - well, good. All BA's skippers are well versed in listening to even the most junior co-pilot's thoughts...he may have 20 years in the mil, or have previously been based at their destination.
As for the Senior CC - well they have always been junior to even the newest FO. BA's FOs don't use that position now to throw their weight around, and they'd be muppets not to listen to any advice given them on board.
If service standards slip, which they may
, I'm sure our MVP's will be showered with Air Miles like sweeties.
Anyway, as now, the operating Captain is in charge in any case, so no change there. We're not going into this shouting about how easy the CC role is, we are going into it, reluctantly, to keep this company - all our futures - going.
Mind you, it has the potential to be a right laugh.
If he has a senior skipper working as part of that team - well, good. All BA's skippers are well versed in listening to even the most junior co-pilot's thoughts...he may have 20 years in the mil, or have previously been based at their destination.
As for the Senior CC - well they have always been junior to even the newest FO. BA's FOs don't use that position now to throw their weight around, and they'd be muppets not to listen to any advice given them on board.
If service standards slip, which they may
, I'm sure our MVP's will be showered with Air Miles like sweeties. Anyway, as now, the operating Captain is in charge in any case, so no change there. We're not going into this shouting about how easy the CC role is, we are going into it, reluctantly, to keep this company - all our futures - going.
Mind you, it has the potential to be a right laugh.
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wascrew
Last edited by TorC; 4th Feb 2010 at 19:04. Reason: missed a word
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Volunteers as sccm
Thank you all for your answers.
Some great thoughts came back.I have taken them all on board(no pun intended!)
At least when this is raised by cc and they have negative thoughts I can explain the reasons behind it and how it will work(because it will have to!)
It's good to talk.
Some great thoughts came back.I have taken them all on board(no pun intended!)
At least when this is raised by cc and they have negative thoughts I can explain the reasons behind it and how it will work(because it will have to!)
It's good to talk.
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How many CC per day?
So lets work this out - during a potential strike, BA will have access to :-
-c.2000-3000 volunteers
-majority of gatwick crew (who gain little from this strike) - 3,000?
-CC who have left BA & being invited back from their previous short term 12 month contracts
-(1000/2000 ?) CC who are not members of the union
-cabin crew that decide they are not striking
TOTAL 7,000-10,000 perhaps ?
-c.2000-3000 volunteers
-majority of gatwick crew (who gain little from this strike) - 3,000?
-CC who have left BA & being invited back from their previous short term 12 month contracts
-(1000/2000 ?) CC who are not members of the union
-cabin crew that decide they are not striking
TOTAL 7,000-10,000 perhaps ?
How many CC are used for a typical day's flights from Heathrow and Gatwick? If something approaching that number can be found, we could see BA operating something like a full programme from early on the first day of a strike, and possibly for a few days after that. Judicious rostering for the days before an expected strike could see many of those expected to work being fully rested and having plenty of available hours. The full programme would probably not be sustainable, but could last long enough to see support for the strike fading and a gradual return to work.
WW might, of course, want to play it differently, and aim to start with a minimal programme and gradually build up towards normality.
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Whoa! Steady on there friend!
I read that as a tongue-in-cheek statement in relation to the fact that whenever anything doesn't go BASSA's way it's deemed to be because the organization concerned is corrupt and in the pay of "The evil Willie". Even companies of the calibre of Price Waterhouse Cooper have been accused of "Having it in for crew" and being "WW's puppets" in the past.
Have you read any of the previous incarnations of this thread out of interest? If you haven't, it's worth a look as it's most enlightening.
I read that as a tongue-in-cheek statement in relation to the fact that whenever anything doesn't go BASSA's way it's deemed to be because the organization concerned is corrupt and in the pay of "The evil Willie". Even companies of the calibre of Price Waterhouse Cooper have been accused of "Having it in for crew" and being "WW's puppets" in the past.
Have you read any of the previous incarnations of this thread out of interest? If you haven't, it's worth a look as it's most enlightening.
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I'm super serial.....Dairyground, you wrote.....
How many CC are used for a typical day's flights from Heathrow and Gatwick? If something approaching that number can be found, we could see BA operating something like a full programme from early on the first day of a strike, and possibly for a few days after that. Judicious rostering for the days before an expected strike could see many of those expected to work being fully rested and having plenty of available hours. The full programme would probably not be sustainable, but could last long enough to see support for the strike fading and a gradual return to work.
This is also why, right from the start, he will do exactly what the Board, the Shareholders, all other BA employees and the travelling/paying Public REQUIRE him to do to protect their investments/careers/families....i.e. position the company that he is paid to MANAGE back towards profitability by playing Hardball....The gloves will truly be off....
-no more warning BASSA of the illegality of their ballots BEFORE the court case
-this time Cabin Crew will be sacked
-staff travel will be permanently removed, as threatened
-new contracts will be issued with no discussion required (by law),
-all non-strikers MAY (if he's feeling like it) be allowed to keep their current pay protected (as a loyalty reward) and possibly their staff travel
-However, all STRIKERS will have to fully re-apply for their jobs on the New Fleet New Contract....no longer market rate plus 10%, that which was offered and pompously rejected as being beneath a befitting stature, it could well be simply at market rate.....
.........Heckfire Hootenany! In todays trading conditions and rising unemployment, particularly amongst skilled cabin crew with current licenses and UK security checks who don't like the look of the reality they're faced with down the Jobcentre Plus, market rate MINUS 10% would be gobbled up just as quickly.
If Mr W.Walsh does indeed turn out to be the devil incarnate with which BASSA likes so much to scare the children into submission, do you not think he could eat your contracts for breakfast, feast on your terms and conditions for lunch and dine-a-plenty on every other aspect of your job that the laws of Supply and Demand can unquestioningly PROVE to be significantly ABOVE market rate and market requirements?!
Scary? Sure........Possible? Indubitably my dear Watson! Likely?......hmmmmmm.........Would you bet YOUR, and (maybe less importantly but still worth a Karma check) MY career/livelihood on it?
My family are understandably worried that you would....
You also wrote....
WW might, of course, want to play it differently, and aim to start with a minimal programme and gradually build up towards normality.
After all of BASSA's inappropriate and offensive war analogies/comparisons, maybe ARMAGEDDON is all they'll understand.
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RichmondRoad - There were rumours that the High Court judge that granted the injunction to block the strike over Christmas was to fly on BA over the Christmas period, which led to this statement being issued, hence the jokes about BASSA blaming anyone but itself when things don't go as planned:
Media Releases: Mrs Justice Cox - British Airways Plc –v– Unite the Union
Media Releases: Mrs Justice Cox - British Airways Plc –v– Unite the Union
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!We’re not miles apart,” said Steve Turner
I have not found a second source reporting this yet, but: - We’re not miles apart,” said Steve Turner
FT.com / UK / Business - Union ?not miles apart? from BA
FT.com / UK / Business - Union ?not miles apart? from BA
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Crew complements
Guys,
I agree entirely with the general concensus here that this will be a real team game. BA needs to comply with CAA requirements, hence the agreement with them to use pilots with crew experience as SCCMs providing they do the one-day course. Outside of meeting those requirements however, the name of the game will be harnessing all the knowledge and experience we'll have on board from our different backgrounds (pilots/cabin crew/engineers/groundstaff/waterside staff etc).
I really think there will be a brilliant team spirit and can-do attitude on board should it come to it. The passengers will be very grateful and respectful of what we are doing.
Rather than trying to manouvre around ancient agreements which add ridiculous complexity to our operation, there will be an enabled environment where everyone is trying to do the best thing for our customers and our business. Lets hope some of it rubs off for the longer term.
(I do not question the integrity of our cabin crew colleagues or work ethics in the sentence above, just the outdated practices maintained by their out of date union).
On the fleet front, I gather the plan is to fly just the 777 and Airbus. There is no way they will plan to fly more than 50% of the programme on day one, so it seems sensible to keep it simple by just flying two large fleets initially. Perhaps this will change as more crew come to work although by then, I think the strike will have folded. Whilst the strike may only last a few days, volunteers can expect to remain as crew for longer, especially if the strikers have all been fired.
Guys,
I agree entirely with the general concensus here that this will be a real team game. BA needs to comply with CAA requirements, hence the agreement with them to use pilots with crew experience as SCCMs providing they do the one-day course. Outside of meeting those requirements however, the name of the game will be harnessing all the knowledge and experience we'll have on board from our different backgrounds (pilots/cabin crew/engineers/groundstaff/waterside staff etc).
I really think there will be a brilliant team spirit and can-do attitude on board should it come to it. The passengers will be very grateful and respectful of what we are doing.
Rather than trying to manouvre around ancient agreements which add ridiculous complexity to our operation, there will be an enabled environment where everyone is trying to do the best thing for our customers and our business. Lets hope some of it rubs off for the longer term.
(I do not question the integrity of our cabin crew colleagues or work ethics in the sentence above, just the outdated practices maintained by their out of date union).
On the fleet front, I gather the plan is to fly just the 777 and Airbus. There is no way they will plan to fly more than 50% of the programme on day one, so it seems sensible to keep it simple by just flying two large fleets initially. Perhaps this will change as more crew come to work although by then, I think the strike will have folded. Whilst the strike may only last a few days, volunteers can expect to remain as crew for longer, especially if the strikers have all been fired.
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Unites Latest
Somewhat rich considering that their members are sending text's with private details all over the place at the moment...!
Unite asks regulator to investigate `serious misuse' of British Airways employees' private information
Also, I dont recall reading anything in the Daily Mail that I could not get from public records anway? Certainly the likes of The Mail dont need to rely on feeds from anyone to get information I would suggest.
I guess we will see, eventually..
Unite asks regulator to investigate `serious misuse' of British Airways employees' private information
Also, I dont recall reading anything in the Daily Mail that I could not get from public records anway? Certainly the likes of The Mail dont need to rely on feeds from anyone to get information I would suggest.
I guess we will see, eventually..
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“I really think there will be a brilliant team spirit and can-do attitude on board should it come to it. The passengers will be very grateful and respectful of what we are doing.
Rather than trying to manouvre around ancient agreements which add ridiculous complexity to our operation, there will be an enabled environment where everyone is trying to do the best thing for our customers and our business. Lets hope some of it rubs off for the longer term". BentleyH
There seems to be a lot of euphoria around that worries me and I wonder how regular crew who are intending to work during any potential period of IA feel about this. Although I will be working and this is because I have a contract with BA that I do not intend to break, I'm not sure that I will be rejoicing, in other words, I do not see the context and the operating flights that will result being quite the 'party' that some of the posters here see it. What are you views fellow cabin crew?
Rather than trying to manouvre around ancient agreements which add ridiculous complexity to our operation, there will be an enabled environment where everyone is trying to do the best thing for our customers and our business. Lets hope some of it rubs off for the longer term". BentleyH
There seems to be a lot of euphoria around that worries me and I wonder how regular crew who are intending to work during any potential period of IA feel about this. Although I will be working and this is because I have a contract with BA that I do not intend to break, I'm not sure that I will be rejoicing, in other words, I do not see the context and the operating flights that will result being quite the 'party' that some of the posters here see it. What are you views fellow cabin crew?
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Somewhat rich considering that their members are sending text's with private details all over the place at the moment...!
Unite asks regulator to investigate `serious misuse' of British Airways employees' private information
Also, I dont recall reading anything in the Daily Mail that I could not get from public records anway? Certainly the likes of The Mail dont need to rely on feeds from anyone to get information I would suggest.
I guess we will see, eventually..
Unite asks regulator to investigate `serious misuse' of British Airways employees' private information
Also, I dont recall reading anything in the Daily Mail that I could not get from public records anway? Certainly the likes of The Mail dont need to rely on feeds from anyone to get information I would suggest.
I guess we will see, eventually..
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As the loss was smaller than expected due to the mitigating effects of cost-cutting rather than increased yield/revenue I'd say it's neither good nor bad news insofar as it's good not to have lost the £150 million predicted but it's bad because we're only doing it by squeezing all the costs hard. Broadly for Unite/BASSA (who I've no doubt will focus only on the Q3 operating profit and not keep the entire set of figures in proper context) I'd say it's no different to yesterday or the day before that.
MrB
MrB