British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI

[raveng]

I have been reading this thread for a few days now, feel that I have to comment on posts from flexsrs and ottergirl.

I agree with your post flexsrs, aircraft are often sent ACARS messages, where crew are more than happy to be 'flexible', only for ops to have already turned this down and already being re-crewed.

Ottergirl, frustrating I know, but quite simply, this could be because of any number of factors, including roster issues at a later date, aircraft downtime or perhaps, just perhaps, a colleague has already been in contact with BASSA, who have put a stop to any idea of an extension.

Ottergirl, I do not disagree with your statement about racing to crew ops, only to be turned away, but it's not always as simple as everyone is happy to operate, extend by 'x' minutes.

[petdemouche]

"Quality papers" are found quoting that the strike should last 10 days...Based on what happens in Germany (4 days), and given what is at hands there, don't you think it would be excessive to strike for a full TEN days for something that remains mainly a matter of principle ?

[RTR]

Already posted, see # 978

[BlueUpGood]

And to be clear, regarding crew breaking industrial limits to keep trips, I'm not saying it is widespread, but ottergirls post suggests it NEVER happens, and I have to disagree with that.

Technical delay on Friday.. lucrative trip for the cabin crew.. the purser called ops three times before leaving London to tell them they would reduce their turnrounds to keep the trip. Two further calls from France.. sadly they didn't keep their trip, and got a Friday night at home instead.

Far more typically instead of calls to try and stay on a trip, they are busy working out how long a delay needs to be to trigger a CAT payment, or get off the trip.

[Tiramisu]

And to be clear, regarding crew breaking industrial limits to keep trips, I'm not saying it is widespread, but ottergirls post suggests it NEVER happens, and I have to disagree with that.

FlexSRS,
To be honest, in my many years with BA, I've never been allowed to break industrial unless dispensation has been given by BA and BASSA to avoid disruption and cancellation of a flight.
That was one infact on one rare and remote occasion several years ago, and eventually resulted in the said flight being cancelled due to a night time ban at the destination.

Ottergirl is correct to say that Crew Ops have always said you must work to Union rules regardless of the majority of crew wishing to stay on linked trips. That is and has been always my experience, FWIW.

From the context I understand that a flight which does not trigger an extra payment of some sort, is considered a ´charity flight´ by crew members.

Juud,
To put it into context, the word 'charity' has always been used lightheartedly by many of us, myself included. It's more of a longstanding joke, nothing serious really.


I'm BA cabin crew and the above represent my personal views and not those of BA.

[IYCSWICSWICW]

..hey up baggers, you've forgotton the girl on SKY recently likening BA to the Gestapo and the latest propoganda from La. La. Land is welcoming BA CC to the new world of McCarthyism life in BA.

GF

[IYCSWICSWICW]

..but the misuse/abuse of the Iwo Jima image is profoundly wrong. The word 'offensive' is often used too readily, but in this case BASSA have simply shown contempt for the dead and it will cause deep upset amongst the Americans. Trust me on this,the US media networks will run a story on this over there and there will be outrage. The cynic in me says that all of this 'image' hijacking is a further ploy to damage BA's reputation - Well BASSA, congrats, I think you may have got one plank of your twisted strategy correct for once.

I know that many BA CC read this thread and today, in particular, as 1400 hrs approaces with the ballot announcement due, there will be many more...so, to BA CC who carrry on their luggage the 'BASSA United We Stand' tags depicting the misused Iwo Jima image, I would ask you to remove it out of sheer respect for the dead.

To the BASSA publicists, I say, disgusting shame on you. To Lizanne Malone, I say, simply, no more.

GF

[Buter]

will cause deep upset amongst the Americans.

Especially the ex US Marine infantryman currently flying for BA. FWIW, my grandfather was also a Marine, and was actually on that campaign.

I can assure you that when I come back to work next month, there will be no BASSA propaganda using that image aboard at least one BA airplane.

Test me on this one.

Buter

[Rover90]

Iwo Jima

I was convinced that it was only a matter of time before our respected cousins in the US saw this image and that the US Marine Corp voiced it's disapproval.

As regards forseeing the future...

Reports from Len Mclusky that progress is being made in talks but no detail

Perhaps the breakthrough is that BASSA and CC89 are now in the same room.

...but seriously...this is aimed at the large body of main crew...does it not concern you that ultimately any negotiated resolution to the reduction of crew numbers will effectively offload the current CSD cabin service duties back to the main crew?

Just a thought but don't forget the "grade" of the people negotiating this matter.

[Golden Ticket]

I actually resigned on the basis of this and the use of the Holocaust memorial too. I am ready to believe that BASSA leadership could have got this wrong but for Unite to not have acted on this is unbelievable.

I think that those crew who feel this image is acceptable should really think about how this will cause disgust not just amongst US Marines but also their families and service men of other nations too.

As BA crew I can only apologise for the behaviour of an organisation that represents us and hope that people offended by this can realise that not everyone in our crew community finds this acceptable in any way.

[wascrew]

10 days

British Airways cabin crew push for 10-day strike action | Business | The Guardian


From this is the following quote from a trade union source as to why they wil look for a 10 day strike.
``"It's not a malicious act of aggression. It's to allow everyone who wants to join strike action to take part in it." The source added that a long strike would allow "strength in numbers",

So not only are they trying to call BA`s and WW`s bluff they are doing the same to their members.
It will be defining if the strike goes ahead for the members. Do they really have the courage of their convictions?
Personally I doubt it especially as the going sick option seems to have been removed by BF`s letter in which they state all cabin crew going sick will be deemed to be on strike. I expect them to re-iterate that when the strike dates are announced though how that will stand up legally is debatable.
I suppose the question is ..... Have BASSA backed their membership as well as themselves into a corner? Did the YES voters really understand the consequences and/or underestimate the resolve of WW and the BA board?
Again I think they didn`t but 10 days will find out who has the stronger will and/or commitment to the cause.
In the case of there being not the level of support for the strike action when it comes to stick and lift no doubt there will be a plethora of excuses as to why they voted YES but still had to go to work and it may be they go to work when they realise the consequences to their current contract and conditions if they don`t.
Or will the threats of BASSA to strike breakers win over that emotion/need?
A dilemma for many I think but a dilemma they should have confrinted before voting!

[ottergirl]

Technical delay on Friday.. lucrative trip for the cabin crew.. the purser called ops three times before leaving London to tell them they would reduce their turnrounds to keep the trip. Two further calls from France.. sadly they didn't keep their trip, and got a Friday night at home instead.

And this, FlexSRS, is the reality of the situation. I know there are some of my colleagues who think they can beat the system by bending the rules to suit themselves, (often the less experienced) but what I believe is that the team who run Crew Ops are too professional to be manipulated into breaking the rules. However, if there is a flight uncovered and someone is offering to do it, then it would be unrealistic to expect them not to take advantage of it.

raveng - I did not intend to sound as if I was complaining about missing a trip; I was referring to the strange 'minimum time in CRC' restriction in our agreement. On the contrary, I am absolutely convinced that sticking to the rules is best for all. I would personally never put the staff in Crew Ops in the position of having to debate it. As I explain to the disappointed crew when we lose a trip; next week we'll be on standby and be really pleased when another link fails and our phone goes off.

[Chuchinchow]

La. La. Land is welcoming BA CC to the new world of McCarthyism life in BA.

Quite honestly, I would be very surprised if many members of the BASSA leadership have even the slightest idea of who Senator Joe McCarthy was, let alone what he stood for.

But I do like the idea of BASSA alienating "fellow travellers", though! Probably the entire passenger spectrum in one go.

See McCarthyism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for background information.

[Setubal146]

Having followed this thread for the last couple of weeks(from a purely selfish standpoint as I am due to fly BA early March)I am totally confused by the scenario being played out by BASSA and BA.
BASSA are calling for a strike based on imposition.That imposition has already been made at LGW and has been declared legal by the courts.
The imposition has been done because BASSA would not fully negotiate and because BA are in financial turmoil.
By holding a ballot and the threat of strike action with it BASSA are further damaging BA reputation and finances.Bookings must be down as a result.They are making BA's survival even more perilous.
I'm sure I'm taking a very simplistic view on all this but what oh what is BASSA's objective in this and what would be a satisfactory outcome for them in order to save face and protect their members interests.

[Timothy Claypole]

There are other ways of beating the system. When I was on shorthaul 'charity' trips were not just those that didn't trigger any meal allowances but those which didn't trigger enough to make them worth the effort. The early CDG there and back (which triggered a CDG breakfast) was almost routinely referred to as a 'charity' trip. A late return from the previous days final sector was a well known ploy to lose the subsequent early morning trip in the hope of having it replaced by something more lucrative.

[Snas]

Iwo Jima

If the use of military imagery is about to backfire on BASSA perhaps they should look for a replacement within religious iconography. A BASSA rep giving a sermon on a mount perhaps would make a nice campaign poster or crew walking down the cabin asking “fish or loaf”

[ottergirl]

Looks as if this is one of the problems BA face.
Unless the crew gets some sort of complicated, endlessly bureaucratic extra allowance, they perceive themselves as working for free.


Am I understanding this practice and perception correctly?

Not entirely. The allowances do form part of our annual take home pay as acknowledged by the recent tax changes. The starting salary is 11K basic which is a very low salary by London standards but BA would quote an expected pay of about 20K for mortgage purposes. Virgin crew are paid their meal allowances down-route in local currency, as were we historically; some years ago, to improve security and admin, it was incorporated into our pay system with a facility to borrow against it for expenses down-route.

For the crew on this lower basic pay therefore, the difference between a flight that triggers a dinner allowance £35 say and one that triggers an afternoon £4 can be a significant amount. Too many afternoon flights could have a serious impact on whether they can pay their rent (a mortgage is beyond the reach of most people on 20K). I have known new crew to be very tearful when their trip is disrupted and they 'lose' a days allowances.

It is a complicated system quite unlike any other job in the world I think and there has been a lot of spin around it in the media. It should also be mentioned that for airlines, this is preferable to paying a higher basic pay as crew are cheaper when they are on leave, off sick, training, etc. Human nature being what it is though, I think it realistic that anyone would look to earn more rather than less if they had a choice.

All views my own and not those of my employer.

[nurjio]

Quite so Otter', but a half decent union would have the foresight to modernise an anachronistic 'varaible' pay system by NEGOTIATING a more inclusive pay deal less reliant on varaible pay. Rocketry Science it aint. This is 2010 not 1970.

Cabin Crew is like any other job in the world. Rock up, work (your rostered trip), go home. Repeat. Collect salary at end of month (BASSA muppetry permitting).

Nurj

[ottergirl]

Not so, Nurj. The variable segment is non-pensionable and with the state of our pension fund there is no way that any increase to basic pay would be acceptable in this climate; so variable pay will always be with us. The monthly travel payment seems to have its own problems particularly on Eurofleet and the hourly rate of the pilots will still have some of the pitfalls caused by missing links.

I am not saying that this is the best system, only explaining to a previous poster who asked how it worked!!!!!!

Cabin Crew is like any other job in the world

You think?

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ Ottergirl. Thanks for the explanations. Having received some insight here into the complexities of different "fleets", contracts, part-time working, allowances, scheduling, seniorities etc etc, I have difficulty even imagining how the operation can work at all!! Indeed, like the UK Tax System, it almost defies rationalisation if fairness is to be maintained.