British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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UNITE makes me sick - utterly sick.
Willie Walsh gives them another 3 weeks so that they could ballot their members on the proposal - yet UNITE announces the strike dates and go mad when BA withdraws the proposal but kept insisting they could never recommend that proposal to their members- now they are insisting THAT particular offer is to be put back on the table.
You can't eat the cake and eat it too - but I can understand how tempting it must be for you Len McCluskey.
UNITE has been pushed into a corner - face the facts - it's time to put an end to all of this and BA won't be backing down now.
Why should BA call off everything - put back the proposal - and wait another few days before UNITE calls another strike because they can't reach an agreement - and it's back to square one?
Willie Walsh gives them another 3 weeks so that they could ballot their members on the proposal - yet UNITE announces the strike dates and go mad when BA withdraws the proposal but kept insisting they could never recommend that proposal to their members- now they are insisting THAT particular offer is to be put back on the table.
You can't eat the cake and eat it too - but I can understand how tempting it must be for you Len McCluskey.
UNITE has been pushed into a corner - face the facts - it's time to put an end to all of this and BA won't be backing down now.
Why should BA call off everything - put back the proposal - and wait another few days before UNITE calls another strike because they can't reach an agreement - and it's back to square one?
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Snas
Thanks for FT link
My first reaction is FEAR. Fear that WW will accept this late offer. However, after a few minutes reflection, and after watching the proceedings of the last year I cannot believe that WW would be so foolish as to throw this chance for a revolution in industrial relations at BA to the winds.
What would YOU do?
Thanks for FT link
My first reaction is FEAR. Fear that WW will accept this late offer. However, after a few minutes reflection, and after watching the proceedings of the last year I cannot believe that WW would be so foolish as to throw this chance for a revolution in industrial relations at BA to the winds.
What would YOU do?
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Does WW want a revolution? Would he be able to continue carry ALL BA staff with him, if his sole remaining objective is the destruction of BASSA?
Tricky one - not 'simples'.
Tricky one - not 'simples'.
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What would I do? Impose the below:
- Preserve Ts & Cs for present crew to enable them to live under the financial conditions they have grown used to and service mortgages with, but under new efficiency measures for London turnarounds, disruption, and monthly travel payment
- Pension off any current crew who want to go under VR
- Hire to New Fleet from today
- Remove all high-cost routes from old crew (irrelevant with monthly travel payment - gains efficiency saving immediately)
- Ensure all crews fly as a crew with flight crew for whole trip
- Introduce more overseas bases in conjunction with the IB merger, expansion of OpenSkies, and establishment of position not so dependent on high-cost Heathrow
- Give PCCC a kick to get things moving
Won't hurt current crew one iota (except those cheating the system to go to NRT each month) and European crew will simply be in the air more in return for less time waiting around at T5, and enables long-term competitiveness.
- Preserve Ts & Cs for present crew to enable them to live under the financial conditions they have grown used to and service mortgages with, but under new efficiency measures for London turnarounds, disruption, and monthly travel payment
- Pension off any current crew who want to go under VR
- Hire to New Fleet from today
- Remove all high-cost routes from old crew (irrelevant with monthly travel payment - gains efficiency saving immediately)
- Ensure all crews fly as a crew with flight crew for whole trip
- Introduce more overseas bases in conjunction with the IB merger, expansion of OpenSkies, and establishment of position not so dependent on high-cost Heathrow
- Give PCCC a kick to get things moving
Won't hurt current crew one iota (except those cheating the system to go to NRT each month) and European crew will simply be in the air more in return for less time waiting around at T5, and enables long-term competitiveness.
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ReHeat
I'll go with that, but the step before that is tricky.
Bearing in mind the political pressure for a "quick fix", and the risk of loosing public, (and staff), support if he were to turn down the request to return the offer to the table. He has to make a new offer which allows for the considerable costs incurred by the strike call. At this stage, I can only see that being rejected by BASSA with an accompanying blast of indignation.
IMO we will have to wait a while as the pressure mounts on the CC to make a move?
I'll go with that, but the step before that is tricky.
Bearing in mind the political pressure for a "quick fix", and the risk of loosing public, (and staff), support if he were to turn down the request to return the offer to the table. He has to make a new offer which allows for the considerable costs incurred by the strike call. At this stage, I can only see that being rejected by BASSA with an accompanying blast of indignation.
IMO we will have to wait a while as the pressure mounts on the CC to make a move?
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The political dimension to this (which was of course predicted by many) is getting interesting. If The Government is really putting the pressure on Unite to sort this, WW should at least be able to let Unite stew for a couple more days and then see what they're prepared to go with - the cancellations for the weekend have already gone through so the damage is done.
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I'm not sure that FT story is any different from what's been said by the union for a day or two now, is it?
Actually, this Guardian story might shed some light:
British Airway's last chance to avoid costly strike and save £100m | Business | guardian.co.uk
I'm a touch surprised by the quoted spokesman's comments though. Not that they're necessarily wrong, just that it's the first miss-step in a while from BA
"Tony Woodley [joint general secretary] is not saying that he would recommend it [the proposal]. He is not saying that he would accept it. BA has been threatened with strikes for months. We are fed up with the uncertainty and we are not going to put up with it."
Actually, this Guardian story might shed some light:
British Airway's last chance to avoid costly strike and save £100m | Business | guardian.co.uk
I'm a touch surprised by the quoted spokesman's comments though. Not that they're necessarily wrong, just that it's the first miss-step in a while from BA
"Tony Woodley [joint general secretary] is not saying that he would recommend it [the proposal]. He is not saying that he would accept it. BA has been threatened with strikes for months. We are fed up with the uncertainty and we are not going to put up with it."
Last edited by Papillon; 15th Mar 2010 at 21:21. Reason: Link and quote added
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As a point of interest, the BA website home page has strike information which when followed through to individual flights shows the wet lease carriers for flights.
eg. DUS-LHR Saturday 20th March
BA935 Operated by BA Airbus
BA937 Operated by Titan B757
BA939 Operated by Transavia B737
It looks to me as if a pretty robust schedule is taking shape.
It is there for all to see, of course for the PAX, but striking CC I suggest you take a peep.
eg. DUS-LHR Saturday 20th March
BA935 Operated by BA Airbus
BA937 Operated by Titan B757
BA939 Operated by Transavia B737
It looks to me as if a pretty robust schedule is taking shape.
It is there for all to see, of course for the PAX, but striking CC I suggest you take a peep.
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What Willie Walsh said at today's employee forum
Here is some of the things which Willie Walsh said at today's employee forum.
He was called last Thursday morning by Derek Simpson (joint general secretary of Unite) asking for an extension of the strike mandate. (Unite must legally strike within 28 days of a ballot, but the employer can agree an extension.) This would enable the crew to be balloted on BA's last offer. Simpson indicated that crew might accept the offer.
He reluctantly agreed to a 22-day extension from 22 March to 13 April. A strike could then be legally called seven days before (on 6 April). Simpson called him again that day to confirm the arrangement.
On the next day, he heard nothing from Simpson prior to McCluskey's announcement of strike action and Unite's non-recommendation of the offer. He felt betrayed by Simpson and withdrew BA's offer.
On Friday night, Brendan Barber of the TUC asked him to resubmit BA's offer if the strikes were called off. He agreed to this but no offer to call off the strikes was made.
ACAS asked him to attend a meeting with Unite on Sunday, so he reluctantly went with Tony McCarthy, the director of people & organisational effectiveness. Nobody from Unite turned up.
There are 949 cabin crew volunteers and he expects a 1,000 soon. More training courses will be held.
Some 21 or 22 wet-lease planes will be available.
A limited number of 747s will be in service. All 777s will be in service. (This is why all of LGW's long-haul flights will operate.)
He has every intention of toughing out this dispute.
He was called last Thursday morning by Derek Simpson (joint general secretary of Unite) asking for an extension of the strike mandate. (Unite must legally strike within 28 days of a ballot, but the employer can agree an extension.) This would enable the crew to be balloted on BA's last offer. Simpson indicated that crew might accept the offer.
He reluctantly agreed to a 22-day extension from 22 March to 13 April. A strike could then be legally called seven days before (on 6 April). Simpson called him again that day to confirm the arrangement.
On the next day, he heard nothing from Simpson prior to McCluskey's announcement of strike action and Unite's non-recommendation of the offer. He felt betrayed by Simpson and withdrew BA's offer.
On Friday night, Brendan Barber of the TUC asked him to resubmit BA's offer if the strikes were called off. He agreed to this but no offer to call off the strikes was made.
ACAS asked him to attend a meeting with Unite on Sunday, so he reluctantly went with Tony McCarthy, the director of people & organisational effectiveness. Nobody from Unite turned up.
There are 949 cabin crew volunteers and he expects a 1,000 soon. More training courses will be held.
Some 21 or 22 wet-lease planes will be available.
A limited number of 747s will be in service. All 777s will be in service. (This is why all of LGW's long-haul flights will operate.)
He has every intention of toughing out this dispute.
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He was called last Thursday morning by Derek Simpson (joint general secretary of Unite) asking for an extension of the strike mandate.
So, why did they ask?
ACAS asked him to attend a meeting with Unite on Sunday, so he reluctantly went with Tony McCarthy, the director of people & organisational effectiveness. Nobody from Unite turned up.
Can you even imagine, Walsh himself stood like spare ***** outside the ACAS offices awaiting Unite, the air in the car on the way back must have been blue to say the least...!
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They hadn't called the strike at that point. They wanted to extend the deadline so they would have time to ballot the cabin crew for 2-3 weeks. WW agreed to an extension, the offer was there as long as they didn't call any strike giving them time to ballot the crew and then call for a strike if the crew didn't accept the offer.
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Two Tone Blue
Clarification:
I used the word revolution in the sense of a rapid and extensive change and did not intend any suggestion of bloodshed or hardship.
To be absolutely clear - I mean the removal of the "Spanish Practices" that make the CC working environment so archaic, inflexible and therefor, expensive for BA. The destruction of BASSA/Unite is not IMO an objective of WW, but their behaviour to date does seem to make it a very probable outcome!
Clarification:
I used the word revolution in the sense of a rapid and extensive change and did not intend any suggestion of bloodshed or hardship.
To be absolutely clear - I mean the removal of the "Spanish Practices" that make the CC working environment so archaic, inflexible and therefor, expensive for BA. The destruction of BASSA/Unite is not IMO an objective of WW, but their behaviour to date does seem to make it a very probable outcome!
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Extension to strike period
Snas,
The legislation dictates that you must commence industrial action within 28 days of announcing the ballot result and give the employer at least 7 days notice of every day of strike action. There is also however a clause which states that if both sides agree to an extension of the 28 days, then the deadline can be extended to a mutually agreed date. So Willie was asked by Derek Simpson if he would be prepared to support an extension so that Unite could run a full paper ballot consulting on BA's offer. Willie agreed on the condition that strike dates wouldn't be announced whilst the ballot was taking place but within hours of having agreed to do this with Mr Simpson, Unite then announced the strike dates anyway. The first Willie knew about this was when he got a call from the BA press office saying it was on Sky News!!!
Hopefully that clears up the issue about the legislation and the 28 day period.
It also shows how utterly divided Unite are. One general Secretary says one thing whilst the other does the opposite, and then there is McLunk, Jack Dromie and Steve Turner lobbing grenades around to boot....what a shower. And I didn't even get onto BASSA lot.....
The legislation dictates that you must commence industrial action within 28 days of announcing the ballot result and give the employer at least 7 days notice of every day of strike action. There is also however a clause which states that if both sides agree to an extension of the 28 days, then the deadline can be extended to a mutually agreed date. So Willie was asked by Derek Simpson if he would be prepared to support an extension so that Unite could run a full paper ballot consulting on BA's offer. Willie agreed on the condition that strike dates wouldn't be announced whilst the ballot was taking place but within hours of having agreed to do this with Mr Simpson, Unite then announced the strike dates anyway. The first Willie knew about this was when he got a call from the BA press office saying it was on Sky News!!!
Hopefully that clears up the issue about the legislation and the 28 day period.
It also shows how utterly divided Unite are. One general Secretary says one thing whilst the other does the opposite, and then there is McLunk, Jack Dromie and Steve Turner lobbing grenades around to boot....what a shower. And I didn't even get onto BASSA lot.....
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So Unite have blinked first
They want Fridays offer retabled, CC have seen what that offered and would accept it - Len knows that and it may well explain his lack of presence in todays coverage of events
We are now in face saving mode for BASSA / Unite. Internal drivers are more to do with their leaders individuals postion in the pecking order rather than looking after their members interests (see GlamGirls post re the position of thier LGW members in the unions view - disgracefull)
Additional costs have been incurred by BA - what happens to them?
My ideal situation is that BA retables the offer and takes legal action against Unite to cover the costs BA have incurred by their inept conduct over the last year (this is coming from a left of centre, union supporting person)
If this takes place Lala et all will be taken care of by Unite
They want Fridays offer retabled, CC have seen what that offered and would accept it - Len knows that and it may well explain his lack of presence in todays coverage of events
We are now in face saving mode for BASSA / Unite. Internal drivers are more to do with their leaders individuals postion in the pecking order rather than looking after their members interests (see GlamGirls post re the position of thier LGW members in the unions view - disgracefull)
Additional costs have been incurred by BA - what happens to them?
My ideal situation is that BA retables the offer and takes legal action against Unite to cover the costs BA have incurred by their inept conduct over the last year (this is coming from a left of centre, union supporting person)
If this takes place Lala et all will be taken care of by Unite
Last edited by cym; 15th Mar 2010 at 22:24. Reason: spelling - red wine causes finger probs soz!!!
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Bentley
It’s getting late and perhaps I’m being dim, ok, I understand how the legislation works, cheers.
What I don't get is that the only reason to ask for an extension therefore would be so that you didn’t have to call a strike (at that point).
That being said (if I were Willie) I wouldn’t have even thought to have added a no strike announcement condition believing that was the whole point, the motivation, of the request in the first place.
/ Silly example, PAX “Can I have a seat with more leg room please?” CC “Yes, but only if you go and sit in it” /
Are you suggesting that the two main players from Unite were operating independently of each other and without knowledge of what the other was doing / planning? Surely not.!
What I don't get is that the only reason to ask for an extension therefore would be so that you didn’t have to call a strike (at that point).
That being said (if I were Willie) I wouldn’t have even thought to have added a no strike announcement condition believing that was the whole point, the motivation, of the request in the first place.
/ Silly example, PAX “Can I have a seat with more leg room please?” CC “Yes, but only if you go and sit in it” /
Are you suggesting that the two main players from Unite were operating independently of each other and without knowledge of what the other was doing / planning? Surely not.!
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Ottergirl
..not heard of bussing to remote stands, ie T1,2,3,4? Where non palate hold baggage is not an issue?
Do you honestly believe that this has not been covered off in contingency planning?
Do you honestly believe that this has not been covered off in contingency planning?
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McL article in the guardian
Don't blame British Airways cabin crew | Len McCluskey | Comment is free | The Guardian
Don't blame British Airways cabin crew | Len McCluskey | Comment is free | The Guardian
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Guardian - nothing like reporting on the facts - no mention about the offer by WW to extend strike deadine if no strike dates were announced?
Any comments from ' a guardian ppruner'????
Any comments from ' a guardian ppruner'????