British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Quoth ChristmasLights:
Is the change of having to work in the cabin not preferable to signing on?
If the reps have led all cabin crew to this stage simply over this issue, they should be dismissed.
It still beggars belief how thousands of BASSA members are not demanding to know why they were not given the chance to even view BA's offer.
And I hope that they demand to see every single rep on the picket line on day one. If they don't, they deserve the leadership for which they're paying.
I sympathise because no matter how good your conditions are or how little is asked of you to change, change is still a huge issue for some people.
If the reps have led all cabin crew to this stage simply over this issue, they should be dismissed.
It still beggars belief how thousands of BASSA members are not demanding to know why they were not given the chance to even view BA's offer.
And I hope that they demand to see every single rep on the picket line on day one. If they don't, they deserve the leadership for which they're paying.
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Loss of staff travel doesn't seem to worry many crew - BASSA has said that before they accept any deal and crew return to work BA would need to give back staff travel to all crew.
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Vld1977 - very good post indeed.
One point:
The outcome of nationalising would be an assessment of its effect on competition. As Lloyds / RBS are now finding, they are required to sell many businesses that are state-supported and distorting to competition through excess size, being state owned.
BA would be placed in the position that, having been saved, it is distorting the marketplace, and the EU / US DoJ would require the mass sale of slots / route rights to healthy competitors, as by right it would otherwise have died by the market, giving the competition the chance to grow and raise employment. Through being nationalised and preserving a staid corporate entity, the competition laws would be enforced to partially correct the distorting effect on the marketplace.
And that ends my off-topic discussion...!
One point:
I may be wrong about this, so I stand to be corrected, but thought that what EU laws banned was for goverments to help companies by funding them or giving them public money. The fact that a goverment nationalises a company by becoming the main shareholder, as far as i know (and I repeat I'm not 100% sure), is legal, as we have seen with the "nationalising" of the struggling banks.
BA would be placed in the position that, having been saved, it is distorting the marketplace, and the EU / US DoJ would require the mass sale of slots / route rights to healthy competitors, as by right it would otherwise have died by the market, giving the competition the chance to grow and raise employment. Through being nationalised and preserving a staid corporate entity, the competition laws would be enforced to partially correct the distorting effect on the marketplace.
And that ends my off-topic discussion...!
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I'm surprised that Unite havent made more noise about this: -
Life-Saving BA Crew Hailed as Heroes in New York - but Willie Walsh Denies Them a Voice on Their Future
More detailed version: - Life-Saving BA Crew Hailed as Heroes in New York - but Willie Walsh Denies Them a Voice on Their Future
Well done to that crew though...
Life-Saving BA Crew Hailed as Heroes in New York - but Willie Walsh Denies Them a Voice on Their Future
More detailed version: - Life-Saving BA Crew Hailed as Heroes in New York - but Willie Walsh Denies Them a Voice on Their Future
Well done to that crew though...
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BASSA has said
So Winston thinks that because BASSA has said something then it will happen.
I suspect that when the dust has settled, few,including the rank and file and certainly not BA management will care too much what BASSA says.
Why do you think Winston that Len is back pedaling as fast as he can to promote a proposal from BA as a probable solution when he previously intended to recommend it's rejection? Perhaps out of concern for his members and to save them taking a pay cut that he had proposed, or perhaps for the customers? Give us a break!
He might not be the brightest match in the box but even dear old Len has realised it is time to stop digging while Unite and BASSA still have some say even if they have lost all credibility
I suspect that when the dust has settled, few,including the rank and file and certainly not BA management will care too much what BASSA says.
Why do you think Winston that Len is back pedaling as fast as he can to promote a proposal from BA as a probable solution when he previously intended to recommend it's rejection? Perhaps out of concern for his members and to save them taking a pay cut that he had proposed, or perhaps for the customers? Give us a break!
He might not be the brightest match in the box but even dear old Len has realised it is time to stop digging while Unite and BASSA still have some say even if they have lost all credibility
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nationalizing BA isn't off topic as some cabin crew seem to believe that if worst comes to the worst BA will be saved by the government.
I doubt this very much because even if BA were nationalized and even if all the above happened due to the distortion on competition isn't a loss making national airline in effect receiving state subsidies to remain afloat?
If yes then this is illegal
agree nice post vld
I doubt this very much because even if BA were nationalized and even if all the above happened due to the distortion on competition isn't a loss making national airline in effect receiving state subsidies to remain afloat?
If yes then this is illegal
agree nice post vld
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Safety Concerns:
I doubt this very much because even if BA were nationalized and even if all the above happened due to the distortion on competition isn't a loss making national airline in effect receiving state subsidies to remain afloat?
Again, not sure, but I think it's not the same. The state doesn't recall the company to be a part of the public sector again or gives them money for free. It just invests public money into this company (as any private investor may do), the taxpayers becoming the main shareholder and, as such, entitled to make decisions about how the company is run (obviously if it was true that the politicians are our representatives WARNING: IRONY!!
), but the company remains in the private sector, subject to the market regulatory laws, as Re-heat pointed out. In this case, the state and the taxpayers just become another private investor. Not sure about the legal restraints against that. If there are any, I am wrong then, but in my defense, I will reiterate that I am not really sure what I am talking about.
Nationalising is not the solution. It could have been the solution 40 years ago, but now all public sector enterprises are run more like businesses than public services (look at the NHS). So nationalisation means job losses, draconian changes to T&Cs, etc. This is what they (both BA and the unions) are trying to avoid. Nationalising an airline, in an age when the public sector is not a service, but a potential profit-making enterprise, would only legitimate these changes, as they are (in theory) dictated by the taxpayer.
I doubt this very much because even if BA were nationalized and even if all the above happened due to the distortion on competition isn't a loss making national airline in effect receiving state subsidies to remain afloat?
Again, not sure, but I think it's not the same. The state doesn't recall the company to be a part of the public sector again or gives them money for free. It just invests public money into this company (as any private investor may do), the taxpayers becoming the main shareholder and, as such, entitled to make decisions about how the company is run (obviously if it was true that the politicians are our representatives WARNING: IRONY!!
), but the company remains in the private sector, subject to the market regulatory laws, as Re-heat pointed out. In this case, the state and the taxpayers just become another private investor. Not sure about the legal restraints against that. If there are any, I am wrong then, but in my defense, I will reiterate that I am not really sure what I am talking about.Nationalising is not the solution. It could have been the solution 40 years ago, but now all public sector enterprises are run more like businesses than public services (look at the NHS). So nationalisation means job losses, draconian changes to T&Cs, etc. This is what they (both BA and the unions) are trying to avoid. Nationalising an airline, in an age when the public sector is not a service, but a potential profit-making enterprise, would only legitimate these changes, as they are (in theory) dictated by the taxpayer.
Last edited by Vld1977; 14th Mar 2010 at 04:31.
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I wonder if Unite has been the first to blink. The proper thing to do would be to call off the strikes, ask BA to resubmit the offer and ballot crew.
Regarding the issue of nightstops - can we move on from this now? BA has a 'hub and spoke' model which requires aircraft/crew to stop away from base in order to operate back early the next day. Easyjet and Ryanair do not operate the same model, they have many small bases all over Europe which allow early departures to be crewed locally. Very different model. Anyone who has operated out of LHR first thing in the morning will know it's already extremely busy, the idea that the entire BA fleet could be departing main base at this time of day is just nonsense.
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Snas.
Your raising of the "Heroes" piece was interesting. The tone of it smelt a bit like a BASSA press release rather than a news report, then I notice at the bottom the words,
Distributed by PR Newswire on behalf of Unite the Union.
Which of course meant that it was a bit of PR Bumf from the union after all.
Distributed by PR Newswire on behalf of Unite the Union.
Which of course meant that it was a bit of PR Bumf from the union after all.
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Caribbean Boy..
You said..
Any Unite members who are reading these pages. Please read post #2723 (Deeceethree).
Ask yourself if it's contents are reasonable, sincere and acceptable to you or you would rather hold out for something else/strike than accept them!
May I suggest if it's the former you let your representatives know, URGENTLY.
My question in response to previous posts. Not representative of my employer or any other party.
ps. Mod, in these dark days allow me to bring a ray of sunshine.
Happy Mothers Day, to any Mums in our forum community
The proper thing to do would be to call off the strikes, ask BA to resubmit the offer and ballot crew
Ask yourself if it's contents are reasonable, sincere and acceptable to you or you would rather hold out for something else/strike than accept them!
May I suggest if it's the former you let your representatives know, URGENTLY.
My question in response to previous posts. Not representative of my employer or any other party.
ps. Mod, in these dark days allow me to bring a ray of sunshine.
Happy Mothers Day, to any Mums in our forum community
Last edited by Clarified; 14th Mar 2010 at 07:46.
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Dawdler
I couldn't care less whether it was a BASSA press release or not. The fact that a group of my colleagues saved a man's life is praise worthy and makes me feel great pride in the quality of the cabin crew I work with.
That said I do not see what on earth this has to do with the current dispute. If the CSD has to work as part of the service or not the crew would still have done just as well.
Well done to all concerned, you make me proud to work alongside you.
That said I do not see what on earth this has to do with the current dispute. If the CSD has to work as part of the service or not the crew would still have done just as well.
Well done to all concerned, you make me proud to work alongside you.
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It really beggars description!
I am truly appalled to see that, after all the bad feelings it has engendered, the BASSA website still portrays its travesty of the Iwo Jima photograph.
See: •*BASSA•*Welcome
Will LaLa Lizanne Malone and her henchmen (and women) never take notice of public opinion?
Or have they got to the stage where they no longer care?
See: •*BASSA•*Welcome
Will LaLa Lizanne Malone and her henchmen (and women) never take notice of public opinion?
Or have they got to the stage where they no longer care?
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VLD1977 - thank you very much for your excellent contributions. I have two questions for you, please.
1. Where were you when we needed you?
2. Would you like to join the Professional Cabin Crew Council as an Associate Advisor? You can learn more about us here www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
1. Where were you when we needed you?
2. Would you like to join the Professional Cabin Crew Council as an Associate Advisor? You can learn more about us here www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
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View of the Uk Minister for Transport
Adonis said: "The impact this will have will not only be deeply damaging on passengers, it will ... threaten the very existence of British Airways."
The union has said thousands of its members will walk out for three days from March 20 and for four days from March 27 after the collapse of talks aimed at resolving a long-running dispute over jobs, pay and working conditions.
Adonis told BBC1's 'Andrew Marr Show': "The stakes are incredibly high in this strike.
"I absolutely deplore the strike, it is not only the damage it is going to do passengers and the inconvenience it's going to cause - which is quite disproportionate to the issues at stake - but also the threat it poses to the future of one of our great companies in this country."
Adonis continued: "It's totally unjustified, the strike, on the merits of the issues at stake.
"I do call on the union to engage constructively with the company at this late stage."
The union has said thousands of its members will walk out for three days from March 20 and for four days from March 27 after the collapse of talks aimed at resolving a long-running dispute over jobs, pay and working conditions.
Adonis told BBC1's 'Andrew Marr Show': "The stakes are incredibly high in this strike.
"I absolutely deplore the strike, it is not only the damage it is going to do passengers and the inconvenience it's going to cause - which is quite disproportionate to the issues at stake - but also the threat it poses to the future of one of our great companies in this country."
Adonis continued: "It's totally unjustified, the strike, on the merits of the issues at stake.
"I do call on the union to engage constructively with the company at this late stage."
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You're right about one thing HarryHoofter - there is a dead horse in all of this. The Professional Cabin Crew Council is not it though. 
The PCCC (www.professionalcrewcouncil.com) is a growing, progressive organisation that is inundated with positive feedback worldwide from people in all walks of life. Our most valuable feedback has been from the cabin crew themselves, thanking us for showing the voice of moderation and showing a positive light through all of this.
It is our intention to support our customers and help them to try and get to their destination. We have volunteered to work on days off/leave/have conversion courses to operate different aircraft types and do whatever we can to keep BA flying.
The Professional Cabin Crew Council is Backing BA and we hope that we can go someway towards minimising the disruption to our customers worldwide.
Unite say that they care about customers. The Professional Cabin Crew Council will be proving that we do. On Saturday.
I am a BA cabin crew member and this is my own view and not that of BA.
The PCCC (www.professionalcrewcouncil.com) is a growing, progressive organisation that is inundated with positive feedback worldwide from people in all walks of life. Our most valuable feedback has been from the cabin crew themselves, thanking us for showing the voice of moderation and showing a positive light through all of this.
It is our intention to support our customers and help them to try and get to their destination. We have volunteered to work on days off/leave/have conversion courses to operate different aircraft types and do whatever we can to keep BA flying.
The Professional Cabin Crew Council is Backing BA and we hope that we can go someway towards minimising the disruption to our customers worldwide.
Unite say that they care about customers. The Professional Cabin Crew Council will be proving that we do. On Saturday.
I am a BA cabin crew member and this is my own view and not that of BA.
Vld1977,
Well, I think I am right wing, slightly socialist, trade unionist (since 1957) and I agree with a lot of your comment.
I fear the BA CC are being led down the garden path by their very own Arthur Scargills who, as you say, fail to understand the difference between representing their members best interests and promoting their own political hobbies/egos.
I am left wing, socialist and trade unionist
I fear the BA CC are being led down the garden path by their very own Arthur Scargills who, as you say, fail to understand the difference between representing their members best interests and promoting their own political hobbies/egos.
I left Bassa after the "Champagne Strike" of 1989.
There were several irregularities regarding Bassa's handling of that issue from which the more enlightened of us realized that the militant loonies did not necessarily put their members' best interests first, hence the creation of CC89, to which many of us flocked for shelter.
Looks like the engine turbine has gone full circle. When will what's left of the present Bassa membership wake up?
There were several irregularities regarding Bassa's handling of that issue from which the more enlightened of us realized that the militant loonies did not necessarily put their members' best interests first, hence the creation of CC89, to which many of us flocked for shelter.
Looks like the engine turbine has gone full circle. When will what's left of the present Bassa membership wake up?