British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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As a personal note I have no hatred toward Cabin Crew, I have a deep seated dislike of their incompetent Union and a dislike of the strategies employed against them by the company Management.
Sadly individuals like VV seem to think they can tar whole departments with a thick brush and then expect/demand that we all respond to them with congeniality.
I would have no hesitation, in an emergency, of bypassing individuals like VV who believe they know better and placing the responsibility of dealing with CRM on the shoulders of someone, perhaps more junior, more capable of accepting orders and carrying them out as required. As such an effective use of CRM.
Have fun VV, I truly hope I never to have to put up with flying with you.
Sadly individuals like VV seem to think they can tar whole departments with a thick brush and then expect/demand that we all respond to them with congeniality.
I would have no hesitation, in an emergency, of bypassing individuals like VV who believe they know better and placing the responsibility of dealing with CRM on the shoulders of someone, perhaps more junior, more capable of accepting orders and carrying them out as required. As such an effective use of CRM.
Have fun VV, I truly hope I never to have to put up with flying with you.
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Originally Posted by MissM
Not necessary scaremongering. They simply show what BASSA can achieve and what BA could do if they wanted to without union representation.
I only stated out that flight crew is entitled to rest in First on certain trips and that's expensive too and especially when draglift pointed out the equivalent for cabin crew in Club.
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Originally Posted by Watersidewonker
So BASSA are our union and we trust them more than BA management thats just a fact 92.49% YES vote proves that.
The 'idiots on the BASSA board' are the sole reason BA secured an injunction against Bassa, it was NOT a minor technically or a dodgy judge, when the rest of blinkered sheep realise this I suspect things may change.
Originally Posted by Watersidewonker
Take time to reflect that 2010 will be upon us soon and just think how you would react if you were cabin crew being asked to take a future massive pay cut after BA's henchmen try to destroy our terms and conditions.
you need a new job mate
'...after BA's henchmen try to destroy our terms and conditions'
you only get one life and you seem to hate it: time for change. You work for a commercial enterprise, not the mob.
you only get one life and you seem to hate it: time for change. You work for a commercial enterprise, not the mob.
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Take time to reflect that 2010 will be upon us soon and just think how you would react if you were cabin crew being asked to take a future massive pay cut after BA's henchmen try to destroy our terms and conditions.
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ex-speedbird
I have no idea what you did for boac/ba or for how long you did it, and I in no way want to dismiss your anger about the changes to your non contractual staff travel. However, this thread is about the survial of this comapny and not the perks.
I'm sure your on aps, I would have loved that. I'm sure you got to retire at 50/55, again on aps, would have loved that as well. I was on Naps. now changed, soon to be gone. Think that change of life planning compares to the effects of st09? The times change and I hope you will forgive me for asking you to consider that whilst your plans for using staff travel, decades after leaving the comapny, are very important to you they are not quite as pressing as the concerns and worries of those of us who worry about having a job by the end of next year.
The reason we have arrived at this juncture has been the inability and unwillingness for DECADEs of anyone within BA to attempt to tackle union influence. Without being disrespectful to you I would ask you to consider that perhaps WW is not the reason we find ourselves at the edge of the precipice, perhaps he is dealing with the poisened chalice that was left for him by those that went before. Perhaps that may even include your good self.
We don't run the airline for the benifit of it's cabin crew or it's ex-staff. sorry. If we don't have an airline to run then we have no benifits, get it?
I'm sure your on aps, I would have loved that. I'm sure you got to retire at 50/55, again on aps, would have loved that as well. I was on Naps. now changed, soon to be gone. Think that change of life planning compares to the effects of st09? The times change and I hope you will forgive me for asking you to consider that whilst your plans for using staff travel, decades after leaving the comapny, are very important to you they are not quite as pressing as the concerns and worries of those of us who worry about having a job by the end of next year.
The reason we have arrived at this juncture has been the inability and unwillingness for DECADEs of anyone within BA to attempt to tackle union influence. Without being disrespectful to you I would ask you to consider that perhaps WW is not the reason we find ourselves at the edge of the precipice, perhaps he is dealing with the poisened chalice that was left for him by those that went before. Perhaps that may even include your good self.
We don't run the airline for the benifit of it's cabin crew or it's ex-staff. sorry. If we don't have an airline to run then we have no benifits, get it?
Last edited by the heavy heavy; 29th Dec 2009 at 10:44.
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Can't be bothered to find examples, but this and the previous thread are littered with them... However I though BA CC were saying they weren't paid much more than contemporaries, and that this was not about pay???
BA has said that the package will be market rate + 10%. If we take Virgin's salary which is said to be around £14000 a year and use that as an example. If I had to go over from my current contract to NewFleet that would mean a pay cut of over 40%!
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I know that Speedbird does not have a comfy rocking chair in retirement - in fact he is very much involved still in aviation and by my reckoning he has been employed in the airline industry for at least 40 plus years, just not always with BA.
That's fair comment, but the the current spat is threatening the very survival of the Company formerly known in part as BOAC, and frankly the prospects for most of us "youngsters" if the Company goes under are pretty grim. In that context gripes about Staff Travel from a long serving retiree are at the best going to be ignored, at worse lead to some fairly robust replies.
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I think WW is doing the decent thing by introducing Newfleet and introducing the Virgin+10% rule....
It allows the old CC to stay on their current (high) wage for as long as possible in the old BA, but don't complain when the last day comes.....
Paying market conforming wages and other benefits is simply essential for survival.
So whoever is at risk of loosing 40% of their remuneration on Newfleet, know you are working on borrowed time and are being paid way over the odds in todays harsh economic climate. So be nice to your boss who still does pay you that wage....
It allows the old CC to stay on their current (high) wage for as long as possible in the old BA, but don't complain when the last day comes.....
Paying market conforming wages and other benefits is simply essential for survival.
So whoever is at risk of loosing 40% of their remuneration on Newfleet, know you are working on borrowed time and are being paid way over the odds in todays harsh economic climate. So be nice to your boss who still does pay you that wage....
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MissM #696
I have been doing 14, almost 15, years of loyal service in this company
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Watersidewonker #722
Watersidewonker
A little word of advice to you, if I may:
Do not attempt to poke fun at or to parody other contributors' screen monikers, as you did in message 722.
Calling wobble2plank "wubble" was not advisable, particularly as it is all to easy to turn "Watersidewonker" into a risible word of ridicule with a single transposition.
Just stick to the facts (as you see them); clumsy attempts at humour do not suit you.
A little word of advice to you, if I may:
Do not attempt to poke fun at or to parody other contributors' screen monikers, as you did in message 722.
Calling wobble2plank "wubble" was not advisable, particularly as it is all to easy to turn "Watersidewonker" into a risible word of ridicule with a single transposition.
Just stick to the facts (as you see them); clumsy attempts at humour do not suit you.
Last edited by Albert Salmon; 29th Dec 2009 at 12:29.
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Big Brotha wrote:
May I remind Big Brotha that he, too, will reach retirement age (sooner than he thinks), and that he, too, will become "a hungry mouth demanding to be fed".
Or does Big Brotha recommend that all BA pensioners become candidates for a forced euthanisia programme, this saving money, so that he may continue his employment with BA?
BA is a commercial enterprise, one that has NOT performed at all well. By just about every reasonable BUSINESS and FINANCIAL measure it does not have the right to survive and it shouldn't. But it does, and along with it all these hungry mouths carry on demanding to be fed. Retired staff on generous retirement packages hark back to an era which BA couldn't afford then and certainly can't now. Too many promises will now lead to a lot of heartbreak for many. I'm sorry but King and Marshall (to name but two) sold you a pup and retired gracefully into the sunset themselves only to be replaced by actual, proper business types. No wonder their medicine is hard to swallow for many. WW is not the devil but we need to live within our means or the rot/cancer will soon take over.
Or does Big Brotha recommend that all BA pensioners become candidates for a forced euthanisia programme, this saving money, so that he may continue his employment with BA?
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What do you suggest we should do next?
For clarification, by saying "we", I mean us as a company, and also, I'd like to point out that removing the imposition isn't an option.
For clarification, by saying "we", I mean us as a company, and also, I'd like to point out that removing the imposition isn't an option.
Or, is it not an option because it's working at LGW?
Don't take this the wrong way but I remember reading a post of yours in which you said that some of you at LGW have been waiting for this to happen at LHR since it happened down there. Is this some sort of revenge?
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MissM #549
I couldn't care less what people think of us
That being the case, I suppose we can take her statement as a matter of fact and an illustration of her attitude to her colleagues, her employers, and her passengers.
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Meal Chucker
Of course they would and by all means would it not be easy because 99% would be against you. After all it's a discussion forum. It's pretty much the same with PPRuNE and this thread if you say something that goes against the crowd and their opinion.
The main point is that Crew Forum would never reveal your identity for having a different opinion!
You right, they wouldn't ban you, but they would personally attack you with nasty vitriolic comments.
The main point is that Crew Forum would never reveal your identity for having a different opinion!
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Yes, it's scaremongering pure and simple. Vote for us or you end up two to a room downroute. It was never going to happen, but they want you to think it will.
Let me help with the technicalities here. It's an alleviation, which means BA requested it. It may well be expensive, but the issue is not what it costs, but what the alternative would cost. BA are saving money by giving pilots that seat. Yes, I know thats hard for you to comprehend given your obvious aversion to analysis but try to have a think about it. It's expensive to have pilots on board at all, but think how much more the alternative costs.
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Albert Salmon
Definitely. Are you suppose to shut up and go to work without raising your voice over things and especially when your employer wants to do big changes?
Enough is enough.
Probably meant public support.
A strike at this scale would have very little public support. If any. You can't think about what other people would be thinking of you because then it gets far too emotional and could easily affect your goal.
When it concerns my job which pays my rent, bills and food, I think I can be selfish.
And I suppose you consider your Marxist crusade on this side to be a demonstration of your "loyal service" to your employers?
Enough is enough.
I notice that MissM has not refuted the quotation from her message #549.
That being the case, I suppose we can take her statement as a matter of fact and an illustration of her attitude to her colleagues, her employers, and her passengers.
That being the case, I suppose we can take her statement as a matter of fact and an illustration of her attitude to her colleagues, her employers, and her passengers.
A strike at this scale would have very little public support. If any. You can't think about what other people would be thinking of you because then it gets far too emotional and could easily affect your goal.
When it concerns my job which pays my rent, bills and food, I think I can be selfish.
Last edited by MissM; 29th Dec 2009 at 13:31.
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Travel Privileges for pensioners
Can we take it, then, that Big Brutha will be totally altruistic when he retires, and will give up his staff travel privileges as a matter of personal principle?
Somehow I think not.
Somehow I think not.
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BigBrutha ... "So our retired friend can't use rebate travel from his new (tax free?) residence in Cyprus/Spain/USA/France?"
The clues are there, actually.
That might be NZ?
And I don't think any of the locations you quote are 'tax free' either.
Anyway, if we've finished veiled personal attacks?
Good!
Back to your Cabin Crew discussions.
The clues are there, actually.
The Smaller Antipode
And I don't think any of the locations you quote are 'tax free' either.
Anyway, if we've finished veiled personal attacks?
Good!
Back to your Cabin Crew discussions.