British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[wobble2plank]

New Poster, I think Fork Handles was, possibly, referring to the reduced crewing levels on the 777 that the LGW crews have handled well for years after BASSA threw them away as the sacrificial lambs to prevent change at fortress Heathrow during the last weak attempt by management to reign BASSA in.

Didn't the 'Pheonix' evacuation go well as well. A bit like the standard farce known as SEP every year. Evac initiated by a passenger and it must have been difficult to see the massive boarding jetty as an obstruction from the upper deck. All adds to things like the LRB in the wrong place, over the main spar and the fuel tanks without bothering to inform the Captain. Also the galley fire where the first thing the Captain knew about it was the CSD putting in the book that 4 fire extinguishers had been used!

Why is it that the vast majority of Airlines can fly the 744 or the 777 with fewer crew than BA but if BA do it it becomes a safety hazard? Especially as the configuration of our Jumbos has changed significantly with a reduced load?

2) Reduced crew due to sickness. 747 carrying out the safety demo
twice to cover the upper deck, clearly this will take extra time if
required you MUST delay departure.

Errr, no. If the crew realise that this is required then start the demo earlier! Great that BASSA understands the difficulties/costs of obtaining departure slots, routing costs, delay fines and landing slots.

[Fork Handles]

Originally Posted by New_Poster

As you mentioned muppets in your post - you are making yourself out to be one as LGW crews do not operate the 747!!!!! The posting on the BASSA site is referring to the fact that if you are operating whilst missing a Crew member through downroute illness - ie (another) one down - then the safety demo will have to be played again for the benefit of the UD customers otherwise we could not maintain adequate door coverage.

NP,
The first paragraph is generic and that was the point of my post. The rest is just indicative of the no can do bugger everyone else attitude of BASSA. If there is a safety aspect inform the CAA. Its not Bassas job to judge on safety its the regulators. So stop collectively "farting higher than your collective arses" and get back to chucking buiscuits, of a variety decided on by the company. Or move on to another job. Quite simple. The world is tired of your union and its ilk.
Wake up call ...Willie has bigger balls than you think and will beat you.Not everyone is touchy feely in this debate and Bassa dont have a mandate on nasty.
Enjoy the dole and Ill see you for a Maccy Ds.


Now the basic crux of the matter. You are not paid to make policy or regulation you are paid to administer the product. Just do it or move on.
God this is going nowhere . We need action and soon.

[Strimmerdriver]

Hi Wobble

My favourite is the "squirt yourself in the face with the fire extinguisher" part of SEP every year.

It does seem that those who shout the loudest in support of the hive mind are the worst members of crew.

[Tiramisu]

Posted by Watersidewonker
Starting to fog up here at LHR seems like mother nature has worked wonders considering we didn't even go on strike so that is day 7 INCLUDING the court ruling. Only 5 more days to go and mother natures work will be complete something BA could not injunct.MERRY XMAS WILLIE.

A very sick remark!
The very same crew who were about to disrupt a million customer's Christmas and sabotage BA, are now chanting the above!
Of course they are also wondering how much they are loosing in allowances from the cancellations caused by the weather.
Funny how that didn't occur to them when they were about to go on Strike for 12 days and create chaos and distress to so many customers and loyal BA employees.
One word, pitiful.

[winstonsmith]

Pornpants1

......not forgetting Winston the upper deck slide being deployed on the left hand side and filling the jetty.

I forgot about that one - thanks!

[winstonsmith]

Why play the safety video twice to cover upper deck - 11 and 12 will still remain upper deck!

Check 747 Manual - it clearly states pre-flight and emergency briefing positions for 13 crew - In case BASSA has forgotten - 747 can legally operate with 12 crew - even 11 with no passengers on UD - what is the fuss all about?

[Crash_and_Burn]

The fuss is about attempting to justify an argument that is unjustifiable.

The "Safety" card is a good one as it will provoke public interest. Apart form the fact it is a non-issue as BA are still operating within CAA/JAA/FAA guidelines. But when have BASSA let a fact get in the way of a reason to not lift a finger any higher than they already do?

Let's drop the safety talk cr@p.

This dispute is about Imposition (caused by a lack of negotiation) and/or the threat of new fleet (caused by a lack of negotiation) Hey I sense a theme here..... And for the record my opinion (and I'm allowed to have one) is that the lack of Negotiation is on the side of BASSA, no one else.

It is not about pay/ pay freezes/ working one down/12 days of Christmas/ hot towels in WTP/increased coffee prices etc...

Let's have an adult debate, without hissy fits or toy throwing about the best way for IFCE to contribute £140m savings towards the company on a permanent basis. (Yes it is more that any other department, tough. You had 10 years of not contributing through the demands of your union, that little holiday is now at an end and the company wants savings) If it is too big a chunk to swallow at once, why not NEGOTIATE to have it phased in??!?! (Only a suggestion)

CB

PS
Let's also drop any talk about how the company got into this situation. Even if it was down to Price fixing or fuel hedging or the champagne at the AGM, that is now history. Sacking the managers responsible (which happened for the price fixing over 2 years ago) isn't going to change the situation, nor can the departments in question makes the required savings on their own, even if they were to blame (which they are not!). If the company is to survive in its current form we all have to make sacrifices, or we will all be down the dole, simple. This ain't brain surgery.

PPS
If anyone wants to post the above on CF please do... I'd love to hear/see the reaction

edited to make up for my inability to spell, or even type.CB

[maliyahsdad2]

PPS
If any one wants to post the above of CF please do... I'd love to hear/see the reaction

Could you fix the spelling / typing errors first though !

[romans44]

Times Article

This an extract from article from the Times and it is for those of you who keep going on about comparing our wages to that of Easy Jet and others.

• Iberia’s cabin crew and pilots have emerged as potentially prime cost-cutting targets for Willie Walsh, the new chief of a merged British Airways-Iberia.

According to union sources in Madrid, cabin crew at the Spanish flag carrier earn an average of €50,000 (£44,600) compared with BA’s average of £29,900 and Virgin Atlantic’s average of £14,000.
Iberia’s pilots are also well remunerated with average pay of about €190,000 compared with BA’s average of £107,600. Spanish pilots also receive a 7.5 per cent bonus every three years.
.

[Papillon]

This an extract from article from the Times and it is for those of you who keep going on about comparing our wages to that of Easy Jet and others.

* Iberia’s cabin crew and pilots have emerged as potentially prime cost-cutting targets for Willie Walsh, the new chief of a merged British Airways-Iberia.

According to union sources in Madrid, cabin crew at the Spanish flag carrier earn an average of €50,000 (£44,600) compared with BA’s average of £29,900 and Virgin Atlantic’s average of £14,000.
Iberia’s pilots are also well remunerated with average pay of about €190,000 compared with BA’s average of £107,600. Spanish pilots also receive a 7.5 per cent bonus every three years.

Firstly, this is a function of the decline of sterling compared to the Euro.

Secondly, I hardly think you'd want to include Iberia as an example of a healthy and thriving airline.

[romans44]

Hi Travelandtrouble
no, I am not part time...I have been to all those wonderful destinations but not on a regularly
last time I was in Hong Kong was almost 9 months ago.
My rosters are generally good but do not include a long range flight every month.

[romans44]

Secondly, I hardly think you'd want to include Iberia as an example of a healthy and thriving airline

.

Why not?
it is good enough for us to merge with, I don't see why it is not good enough to compare with...

[wobble2plank]

Keep dreaming Romans44, Iberia will, for purposes, remain a separate company under the auspices of Topco and hence will run independent T's & C's that will undoubtedly come under the 'Gaze of Willie' .

If we want to compare then can we take the Iberia Staff travel as well as the pay rise then? Where Captains get on first irrespective of joining date/on load priority or ticket entitlement? Nope, thought not.

[Da Dog]

Romans44

Function of the Euro v pound, nice try though, if the Euro stood at say 1.6 to the UK£ would you still be keen to compare salaries?

Secondly do you honestly think BA ,as the company stands now could afford to pay us (pilots and Cabin Crew) this increase?........ a simple yes or no will do.

[romans44]

I'm afraid I need to post my missive again. Have to say though, you're doing yourself few favours by simply picking on slight wording issues in my post. I'll try clarify for you so you can focus on the real point I'm making.

Nutjob,
The point I was trying to make is that, in my book, it is not right to ask a group of people, who cost far less than another group, to make higher sacrifices.

I respect the fact that you guys are paid what u are paid and personally don't have a problem with it, but that does not mean that we have to make up for the failures made by our management.
After all, lets be honest here. One of the reason that we are where we are, is because of the terrible mistakes we have made.
IE, opening of Terminal 5. Fines and court cases in the US and now the same with cargo in Australia.

I am not going on and on about this. We are not going to agree so I think we best move on.

[Glamgirl]

To be honest, it doesn't really matter who earns more or less than us. What matters is that BA can't afford to keep paying the money (some) cc currently get. Instead of cutting pay for all cc, the crewing levels have been reduced and a pay freeze implemented instead.

Simple, really.

Gg

(Yeah yeah, I know it's not that simple. The brandy is kicking in already )

[romans44]

Secondly do you honestly think BA ,as the company stands now could afford to pay us (pilots and Cabin Crew) this increase?........ a simple yes or no will do

Da dog, this was not about pay increase. This was about comparing.

Function of the Euro v pound, nice try though, if the Euro stood at say 1.6 to the UK£ would you still be keen to compare salaries?

If that was to be the case you'd find that both airlines would be on similar wages..

[Da Dog]

Romans44

yes, I am going with today's rate. After all that is what they are been paid at the moment, is it not?

Well thats not the argument your Unions are using in their negotiations with the IR over the new (very much higher) tax rate to be charged on your meal allowances, you can't pick and chose.( Best you confine your comments to pprune

Waterworld thats what I have been hearing all day.

1. Cabin Crew having to do unscheduled xmas out
2. Cabin Crew not leaving LHR then being placed in standby
3. Cabin crew having to find last minute accommodation (out their own pocket) at LHR
4. Cabin crew who had previously planned to be somewhere good for xmas with the family now stuck at LHR

I'm glad you delight in both your colleagues hardships and that of the company that you so despise It gives me a warm fluffy feeling.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Originally Posted by newposter

I read your earlier posting where you slated the crew and made a comment along the lines that the crew are on board "to serve you" - that of course is a secondary role - we are on board to do this...

Yes, of course you are.
And I did not "slate".
i paraphrased that well-known message "For your comfort and convenience but primarily for your safety".

Fortunately aircraft accidents are rare. Unlike poor cabin service.

Please don't pump yourself up to be the Saviour of Passengers.
You do cabin service, and if things go bad you know which way the door handles operate.
So do I - I always read the card, and look at the potential problems.
Think a bit about the other 99.8% of the time that you're paid to do - if you care.

[malcolmf]

4) Rest Breaks. Ensure you receive your required rest this is a legal
requirement. If this is not possible the service will have to be reduced
accordingly and complete an incident form.

Rest breaks are only "legally" required on sectors over 11 hours for all single sector flights except those after 2200 local time. Generally the time it takes to do DF in Traveller seems to be the time limiter, in which case ditch that