British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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"Quote: In my opinion, at no point BASSA knowingly lead us into an illegal ballot.
So despite all the multiple pre-ballot warnings, both verbal and written, BASSA and Unite unknowingly decided on an illegal ballot? If you truly do hold that opinion you truly are in major denial ....."
Here's the thing. I don't care which side is right. I'm not interested in which side of the egg is up. I like flying British Airways for all sorts of reasons.
As our resident well-adjusted Nederlander (hope I got that right) is away on holiday it appears to be down to us. Is there any way in which some kind of agreement can be reached?
LU
So despite all the multiple pre-ballot warnings, both verbal and written, BASSA and Unite unknowingly decided on an illegal ballot? If you truly do hold that opinion you truly are in major denial ....."
Here's the thing. I don't care which side is right. I'm not interested in which side of the egg is up. I like flying British Airways for all sorts of reasons.
As our resident well-adjusted Nederlander (hope I got that right) is away on holiday it appears to be down to us. Is there any way in which some kind of agreement can be reached?
LU
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I'm pretty sure there's no entitlement to J class for anyone except CSDs and they only have J, not F entitlement. (might be wrong tho!)
Last edited by midman; 23rd Dec 2009 at 19:48.
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@ TNT .. I would sincerely hope that would be the case, but from what I've been reading ...
CSD's travel First? And are THAT important? Good Grief. VERY senior Service personnel and Civil Servants don't even get that. Disgusted of [ex] Camberley.
Other CC are travelling on "business"? No, they are staff being moved from A to B. They do not justify J-class. Sorry, that's another nail in the BA coffin. "Business" = Executives, or people with "disposable income", and not pre-postioning cabin staff. Bad call, you REALLY shouldn't have said that.
Again, my eyes have been opened to the problem with BA CC.
CSD's travel First? And are THAT important? Good Grief. VERY senior Service personnel and Civil Servants don't even get that. Disgusted of [ex] Camberley.
Other CC are travelling on "business"? No, they are staff being moved from A to B. They do not justify J-class. Sorry, that's another nail in the BA coffin. "Business" = Executives, or people with "disposable income", and not pre-postioning cabin staff. Bad call, you REALLY shouldn't have said that.
Again, my eyes have been opened to the problem with BA CC.
Last edited by Two-Tone-Blue; 23rd Dec 2009 at 20:00.
This has degenerated into a " who said what to whom " type argument, maybe interesting in a different context, but surely the very survival of the company - and our pensions - is more important at the moment.
Goodbye, see you when the next phase of the battle twixt BA and BASSA ( or is it Unite ? ) is drawn.
Goodbye, see you when the next phase of the battle twixt BA and BASSA ( or is it Unite ? ) is drawn.
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Two-Tone-Blue
Why shouldn't Crew positioning on a long haul sector be given a J class seat?
I am sorry but your argument holds no water and your suggestion that they are merely 'staff' harks back to a long gone era
You quoted
"Business" = Executives, or people with "disposable income" - I am sorry but that is totally laughable!
Why shouldn't Crew positioning on a long haul sector be given a J class seat?
I am sorry but your argument holds no water and your suggestion that they are merely 'staff' harks back to a long gone era
You quoted
"Business" = Executives, or people with "disposable income" - I am sorry but that is totally laughable!
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Retired, but was a captain - both long and shorthaul.
Unless it's changed, which I doubt, no passenger is ever downgraded to allow positioning crew to sit in a higher class than a downgraded passenger.
IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
I think Henky started this (if it wasn't you, accept my apologies).
What I suspect happened was he overheard someone who had asked for an upgrade whingeing because he hadn't got it.
In my experience they fall into several categories
Don't you know I'm an MP, euro MP, government minister etc. - they have bought an economy ticket but have charged the tax payer for a J or F ticket.
They are a personal friend of Lord King (you can't be, he's dead), Colin Marshall, .... Willie Walsh (you can't be - he doesn't have any friends, or at least that's what some seem to believe).
And my all time best, I am a personal friend of the Archbishop of Canterbury (Robert Runcie at the time).
To which the first class steward replied: "you had better pray for divine intervention then".
I will write it large again IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
Unless it's changed, which I doubt, no passenger is ever downgraded to allow positioning crew to sit in a higher class than a downgraded passenger.
IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
I think Henky started this (if it wasn't you, accept my apologies).
What I suspect happened was he overheard someone who had asked for an upgrade whingeing because he hadn't got it.
In my experience they fall into several categories
Don't you know I'm an MP, euro MP, government minister etc. - they have bought an economy ticket but have charged the tax payer for a J or F ticket.
They are a personal friend of Lord King (you can't be, he's dead), Colin Marshall, .... Willie Walsh (you can't be - he doesn't have any friends, or at least that's what some seem to believe).
And my all time best, I am a personal friend of the Archbishop of Canterbury (Robert Runcie at the time).
To which the first class steward replied: "you had better pray for divine intervention then".
I will write it large again IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
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Two tone blue,
You're right, it is beyond a joke. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
PS New poster, 100% is good enough for this forum. 1000% you'll find elsewhere.
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RE: Positioning Crew
As mentioned previously the crew only get their seats in their entitled cabin if there are seats available and BA NEVER downgrade commercial customers.
There are occasional incidents where the Crew bunks are inop and they have to have horizontal rest in the Club cabin - if they never achieved this then then flight would not be able to go!
Finncapt - remember those days the old Friend of Sir Colin/Lord King? - made me smile!
There are occasional incidents where the Crew bunks are inop and they have to have horizontal rest in the Club cabin - if they never achieved this then then flight would not be able to go!
Finncapt - remember those days the old Friend of Sir Colin/Lord King? - made me smile!
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As mentioned previously the crew only get their seats in their entitled cabin if there are seats available and BA NEVER downgrade commercial customers.
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Interlog
Oh dear, I must add another category!!!
If you upgrade me, I may buy a J or F ticket next time.
I am sure BA are pragmatic and use commercial upgrading as a selling tool.
But I will say it again:
IT DOES NOT HAPPEN that passengers are downgraded for positioning crew, even captains.
I have, on occasions, despite being (ex)staff, paid for and bought full fare first class tickets for myself and my wife.
My greatest pleasure was the day that the chairman of the company (Robert Ayling) sat in economy, as the flight was full, whilst I enjoyed first class.
Oh dear, I must add another category!!!
If you upgrade me, I may buy a J or F ticket next time.
I am sure BA are pragmatic and use commercial upgrading as a selling tool.
But I will say it again:
IT DOES NOT HAPPEN that passengers are downgraded for positioning crew, even captains.
I have, on occasions, despite being (ex)staff, paid for and bought full fare first class tickets for myself and my wife.
My greatest pleasure was the day that the chairman of the company (Robert Ayling) sat in economy, as the flight was full, whilst I enjoyed first class.
Junior trash
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There are occasional incidents where the Crew bunks are inop and they have to have horizontal rest in the Club cabin - if they never achieved this then then flight would not be able to go!
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I'm surprised that you feel the need to win at all costs each little 'battle' with the 'other side'.
Firstly, the 'other side' is part of your team.
Secondly, if you win you also lose.
Imagine, if you will, a net-savvy rival airline. Their attack dogs will look very like your apparent opposition.
Good night and good luck.
Firstly, the 'other side' is part of your team.
Secondly, if you win you also lose.
Imagine, if you will, a net-savvy rival airline. Their attack dogs will look very like your apparent opposition.
Good night and good luck.
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Interlog
Oh dear, I must add another category!!!
If you upgrade me, I may buy a J or F ticket next time.
Oh dear, I must add another category!!!
If you upgrade me, I may buy a J or F ticket next time.
You are incorrect CSD's are 1000% entitled to F priority when positioning
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Can we stop going on about positioning and cabin entitlement please?
I understand our customer's frustration about this topic, I really do, and I'm in no way dismissing your annoyance.
Can we bring this back to topic please? This thread is about t&c of cc, and the most important thing right now is to come up with solutions. I've had some suggestions, both on here and via pm, which I'm thankful for. It's always interesting to hear someone's view.
I'd like to ask NewPoster and others what their suggestions are. What are you willing to (permanently) change? Forget (for a few moments, at least) about imposition. We need to come up with cost savings - and fast. There are plenty of people in the world who don't want BA to disappear into oblivion. That's why we need to use our brains and be constructive.
Saying "he did that" and "she said this" will only get us exactly one place: Nowhere. Come on, folks, I know you've all got a brain, so please, let's do this. Enough squabbling.
Thank you.
Gg
I understand our customer's frustration about this topic, I really do, and I'm in no way dismissing your annoyance.
Can we bring this back to topic please? This thread is about t&c of cc, and the most important thing right now is to come up with solutions. I've had some suggestions, both on here and via pm, which I'm thankful for. It's always interesting to hear someone's view.
I'd like to ask NewPoster and others what their suggestions are. What are you willing to (permanently) change? Forget (for a few moments, at least) about imposition. We need to come up with cost savings - and fast. There are plenty of people in the world who don't want BA to disappear into oblivion. That's why we need to use our brains and be constructive.
Saying "he did that" and "she said this" will only get us exactly one place: Nowhere. Come on, folks, I know you've all got a brain, so please, let's do this. Enough squabbling.
Thank you.
Gg
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Romans44
1. I'm CC, so the "you guys are paid what you're paid" thing is irrelevant. Read my posts. 
2. By your reckoning, if a company ever hits trouble, the biggest cuts should be made to the highest paid. Full stop? Conversely, do the highest paid (and qualified) get the biggest payrises in the good times? Personally, I disagree. Market rates are what ultimately dictate in the Capitalist society in which we live. If you're (we're ) paid well above the industry average and haven't moved with times in years, then YES, expect to be asked to make greater sacrifices than those who have played the game and been compliant in the recent past. IT IS RIGHT TO MAKE HIGHER SACRIFICES IF YOU'VE AVOIDED MAKING ANY FOR YEARS. 
Some parts of IFCE HAVE made such sacrifices (LGW) and hence, they are less hard-hit.
3. T5 is now the envy of many airlines. I actually receive glowing compliments about the place. It had a bad start, people made mistakes, get over it. P.S Before you start on a few other popular subjects, Fuel Hedging is not a money-making exercise and the price fixing may just have MADE BA money, even after the fines.
Nutjob,
The point I was trying to make is that, in my book, it is not right to ask a group of people, who cost far less than another group, to make higher sacrifices.
I respect the fact that you guys are paid what u are paid and personally don't have a problem with it, but that does not mean that we have to make up for the failures made by our management.
After all, lets be honest here. One of the reason that we are where we are, is because of the terrible mistakes we have made.
IE, opening of Terminal 5. Fines and court cases in the US and now the same with cargo in Australia.
I am not going on and on about this. We are not going to agree so I think we best move on.
The point I was trying to make is that, in my book, it is not right to ask a group of people, who cost far less than another group, to make higher sacrifices.
I respect the fact that you guys are paid what u are paid and personally don't have a problem with it, but that does not mean that we have to make up for the failures made by our management.
After all, lets be honest here. One of the reason that we are where we are, is because of the terrible mistakes we have made.
IE, opening of Terminal 5. Fines and court cases in the US and now the same with cargo in Australia.
I am not going on and on about this. We are not going to agree so I think we best move on.
2. By your reckoning, if a company ever hits trouble, the biggest cuts should be made to the highest paid. Full stop? Conversely, do the highest paid (and qualified) get the biggest payrises in the good times? Personally, I disagree. Market rates are what ultimately dictate in the Capitalist society in which we live. If you're (we're
) paid well above the industry average and haven't moved with times in years, then YES, expect to be asked to make greater sacrifices than those who have played the game and been compliant in the recent past. IT IS RIGHT TO MAKE HIGHER SACRIFICES IF YOU'VE AVOIDED MAKING ANY FOR YEARS. Some parts of IFCE HAVE made such sacrifices (LGW) and hence, they are less hard-hit.3. T5 is now the envy of many airlines. I actually receive glowing compliments about the place. It had a bad start, people made mistakes, get over it. P.S Before you start on a few other popular subjects, Fuel Hedging is not a money-making exercise and the price fixing may just have MADE BA money, even after the fines.
New_Poster
Hotel Mode - agreed,
If anyone new to this thread wanted to understand the problem BA is facing it is typified, in a nutshell, by this answer:
.
Note that there are no "ifs", "buts" , "exceptional circumstances" or "if it means we get our paying passengers to their destination".
If anyone new to this thread wanted to understand the problem BA is facing it is typified, in a nutshell, by this answer:
You may be quoting Scheme - I go by Industrial and with no horizontal rest - its a no go
Note that there are no "ifs", "buts" , "exceptional circumstances" or "if it means we get our paying passengers to their destination".
Last edited by wiggy; 23rd Dec 2009 at 22:13. Reason: punctuation.