British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

As a BA pilot I average £3500 per month, but my gross is £70k. This is because I have already had deducted:

Pension contributions: 200
Childcare vouchers: 243
Downroute allowances :300

So my REAL takehome is £4250.

Obviously the rest is Tax & NI

[Tiramisu]

Mr Bunker,
Thanks again, it's enough to put anyone off, being cross examined here.

Plodding along,
As a shorthaul CSD, my predicted allowances and variable pay for December is £600. For most of this year, I've averaged between £500 to £700 and it's been even as low as £288 before tax! Now I don't intend to publish my roster or allowances here, but please, I have no mileage to gain from misleading anyone.
It's been a bad year for shorthaul CSDs and of course there are others out there who are far worse off. I'm not looking for sympathy as I'm lucky to have a job at with BA but with the impending strike, we might all loose what we have.

There are more important issues here at stake than quibbling about what I earn. But that's my fault for posting it here which I regret.

For those of you who are going to strike, please, please think again. We might not have a BA if you strike.
Anyone else wishing to come to work with me over the strike period, please PM me if you have any concerns, you have my support.

I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views and not my employer's.

[ottergirl]

Plodding along

I don't think any of us feel particularly underpaid but those of us who do A GOOD JOB do feel that we earn every penny. I can say, hand on heart, that when I go to work, my customers have the best flight I can give them on the day. I love my job and will go out of my way to make sure that they leave with a smile and want to come back. That is regardless of whether I am working a 12 hour day or not. To earn a good salary as Cabin crew reflects a length of service that would be rewarded in any industry and a degree of shift pay in recognition of unsociable hours. Yes, I am often earning more than a new FO, but his potential is greater; like Willie Walsh, I have reached the top of my tree and am going no further.

I represent good value for BA, and probably generate my own income in terms of recovering mishandled customers and keeping their business for next time. You see, handing out coffee is only one of the many things I turn my hand to.

For a number of reasons, Tiramisu's assessment of what we earn is generous this year, but I know in other years its about right. And may I say, I have the scars to prove I've earnt it.

[wiggy]

ottergirl,

Good post, .


Now can we all leave Tiramisu alone, I think we've all got the point.

[Tiramisu]

Ottergirl,
Phew! Thanks!
Bly me, why does anyone think we'd make this up?!
Time to move on!
Fingers cross BA win the injunction!

[sussex2]

And also fingers crossed that both sides sit down and talk, rather than resorting to legal action.
As the partner of a BA cabin crew member, who has had to live with this profession for almost 30 years, I can honestly say that he works hard and does the best that can be done. If he gets paid well, then he has earned it by working well and getting as far as he can in what is a profession.
Anyone who has worked well for that length of time can expect to be appreciated and paid accordingly.

[Jean-Lill]

Short haul crew do not fly to Singapore and the places where the travel allowance is proposed to be paid in lieu of the long distance payments that are currently paid on those routes.

That is why short haul would not get the same travel payment, their payment presumably would be based on what their average overtime payments are each month.

There is a big difference in the extra payments the two fleets receive.

[BobHead]

As a purely PAX observer to these to these long and tangled negotiations and non-negations may I just say that the report in the Daily Worker, not withstanding some flowery language such as "slashed etc" appears to be less biased than the Telegraphs "over the top" headline conveniently leaving out the word probably.

Also I understand WW stated last week that BA would not take any legal action on the result or strike. Today he is off to court. The leading figures on both sides appear to play fast and loose with their words.

I now fly Air New Zealand if possible, and they also seem to have similar CC employment conditions.

bobh

[henkybaby]

I am already wondering how the unions will turn the cancellation (or at least scaling down) of the strike into a victory... Any takers?

[wiggy]

BobHead

"Truth is the first casualty..." or something.

Well Unite's claim that the pre-Christmas strike date was forced on them is an absolute porker compare with WW saying he won't go to court.

Having said that, by now deciding to go to Court WW can claim to the general public he has done everything he can to prevent people's travel plans being disrupted..

[vee-tail-1]

It is not too late to prevent this proposed act of collective treachery and madness by BA CC.
Those of us retired pilots and CC who wish to break the strike can VOLUNTEER. Please contact BA management now to prevent the striking muppets from destroying our airline. We did it some years ago in the 80ies when a similar situartion arose. Even if your offer to work is not possible the publicity will help to counter the appalling image of BA in the media right now.

[Desertia]

Also I understand WW stated last week that BA would not take any legal action on the result or strike.

Bobhead, can you provide a link to this statement? I must have missed it.
Thanks,
D

[ottergirl]

The court case could be the answer to everyone' prayer' if the injunction is granted (Well mine anyway). Allows some breathing time, renegotiation, face saving, and time to get Christmas over.
Then all we have to do is persuade both sides that all this posturing will not do when they are playing with peoples lives (both crew's and customer's) and they need to get their fingers out of wherever they filed them and find a way out of this mess. Sounds simple when put like that doesn't it. If only....................

[ladyxxxx]

Ground Crew

I am also a spouse of a 40 year BA employee who started with BOAC - he has been through every department (except CC - was rejected for health reasons) put on gardening leave a few years ago and had to take ground crew at T5 (he is an A6 - doing an A3 job) - he has now gone onto part-time working and in effect has lost half his salary - not once in those 40 years of disputes etc has he not turned up for work. I love BA - I have travelled around the world and so have my children - something I would never have been able to do.
if you strike and this time next year there is no BA and you get other jobs (if your lucky) with another airline do you think you will be getting what you get now: THINK HARD - the grass is not always greener on the other side - SHORT TERM GAIN IS LONG TERM PAIN not just for you but for all the BA staff worldwide. Every department has taken hits why not CC - I really don't understand the world is changing you must change with it or feel the effects of queuing for your dole money - that is the harsh reality.

[everynowandthen]

From this article....
BA Christmas strike 'over the top' Unite union boss admits - Telegraph

"The planned 12-day Christmas strike by British Airways cabin staff is "probably over the top", according to Derek Simpson, boss of the Unite union.

The joint general secretary of Unite said the length of the industrial action - which threatens to ruin Christmas travel plans for a million passengers - was "unusual", as Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, urged both sides to hold talks.
Mr Simpson told GMTV: "It was the decision of the negotiating team in BA. That's their judgement if what's needed to bring sense to this. It's probably over the top." "

Just adds to the credibility of the lunatics. Call me thick if you like, is he saying that the length of the strike is down to the "negotiating team in BA" ??

[ottergirl]

Those of us retired pilots and CC who wish to break the strike can VOLUNTEER

While I'm sure it would be entertaining to see our flights manned by volunteers and retired staff (with the new retirement age it will be soon anyway) theres the small matter of airside passes which you seem to have overlooked. Takes about 3 months to get our new crew through their CRB checks which means BA can't take you up on your kind offer.

I have this vision of a line of Zimmer frames stacked in the forward wardrobe that I can't shake out of my head now.

[Desertia]

Statement from WW, correcting a few of BASSA and Unite's lies:

Unite's decision to ruin Christmas for a million of our customers was one of the most shocking announcements I have heard in my 30 years in the aviation industry.

Our call centres have been besieged by people in tears, sick with worry that long-established plans for family reunions are about to disintegrate. Whatever Unite may feel about its case, inflicting such distress on so many individuals of all ages at this emotional time of year is surely an unacceptable way of pursuing it.

We are absolutely determined to protect our customers as much as we possibly can, which is why we have begun legal action to seek an injunction that would prevent this appalling strike going ahead.

As a back-up to the legal action, we are also working hard to establish which cabin crew might wish to work normally during the strike period.

British Airways cabin crew are highly skilled and extremely professional. They are in the front line of customer service and a fantastic asset to the company. But I believe they have been gravely misled by their union in the months leading up to Monday's strike decision.

For example, Unite has claimed that we were "trying to intimidate workers into accepting poorer contracts". The fact is that cabin crew keep their current pay and conditions, and 75% of them will receive pay rises of between 2% and 7% this year, and next.

Given this company's well-advertised financial plight and a protracted recession that has squeezed living standards in every economic sector, we think that this deal is very fair and reasonable. We have also accepted requests for part-time working wherever we could.

And don't forget that BA cabin crew are already the best rewarded in the UK industry. Cabin service directors in our Heathrow long-haul fleet earn £56,000 a year on average, and main crew members average nearly £35,000. Civil Aviation Authority figures comparing cabin crew costs for 10 UK airlines show that BA crew are easily the most expensive, costing twice as much as their Virgin Atlantic counterparts.

Similarly, Unite has claimed that it offered us £170m worth of savings. The true value of that offer was a fraction of that amount, temporary – and plainly inadequate when other colleagues within BA were making much more meaningful contributions to our imperative need to reduce costs.

And I do not believe that more than a handful of cabin crew thought they would be supporting a 12-day strike covering Christmas and New Year when they decided which way to vote in the ballot. Unite kept extremely quiet about that.

There is no need for this strike. I am available to talk with Unite at any time about all the issues that stand between us, without pre-conditions. Let's end this Christmas nightmare and work together to secure British Airways' recovery.

[wiggy]

everynow..

Perhaps he means his team negotiating at BA, but it's as clear as mud, easily misconstrued.....then again perhaps it was meant to be??? It also sounds to me like he, Simpson, at big Unite, is now passing the buck for the decision for a twelve day all out strike back down the line to the lower level reps.

Somebody somewhere else referred to this being "squeaky bum" (cf. Alex Ferguson) time for some of the Cabin Crew and their Reps...wonder if it's getting noisy in LaLa land yet?

[PaddyMiguel]

Tiramisu, Otter Girl, Mr Bunker and the rest of the CC who voted 'No' and are determined to keep the customer satisfied represent the brave end of the broad spectrum of CC within IFCE.
Equally brave but living in LaLa's land are those very few CC who will actually man (woman?) the picket lines on 22 Dec.
The vast majority of CC are those who believed BASSA/Unite's fantasy that by voting 'Yes' WW would resign and all would be resolved without a strike taking place. Lacking the courage of their convictions, they will phone in sick rather than face the public or cross the picket line. In 1997 only 230 CC actually walked out but 4000 phoned in sick and halted the airline for 3 days.
It is this middle-order that needs reassuring. If you are reading this, be brave, ignore the pickets, resist being bullied, turn up for work and have a go at saving BA, it's your only chance.

[everynowandthen]

Ah Wiggy, I see what you're saying. In that case, he's now blaming his colleagues. The man's a genius. I'd love to have him at the top of my Union, I wouldn't have a care in the world.