British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Junior trash
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To not even say hello to someone just because they happen to wear a slightly different uniform amazes me,
As an ex LGW pilot where the relationship is generally harmonious, i'm pretty sure i know which side of the flight deck door the attitude problem comes from at LHR.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Well, as far as I'm concerned, we're all just people at the end of the day - humans, even(!). I find it much easier to get on with people instead of disliking/hating for the sake of it. I treat everybody the same, whether a vvip or other.
The old saying springs to mind... Treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself...
Surely not too much to ask?
Gg
The old saying springs to mind... Treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself...
Surely not too much to ask?
Gg
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Unbelievably they now have a thread on CrewForum about bullying! So they accuse others of bullying – yet the biggest bullies and the most appalling threatening posts are to be found on CrewForum, the BASSA forum and even the ESS forum where a few who have tried to say anything remotely pro-BA are shot down by rent-a-mob.
They say “customer service” will diminish under the BA proposals – yet are happy to close off First Class, or cancel an entire flight (and thus peoples’ holidays, business functions, weddings, funerals to attend, etc.) due to being one crew member down.
They say they “are premium crew” – yet cannot serve a hot towel in WTP, or cannot do a manual duty free bar unless BASSA says so.
They say that “fat cats earn too much” – but think it acceptable that a WW CSD should earn £50000 and do very little onboard.
They call the “fat cats” selfish and lining their own pockets – but feel they should earn more than SFLGW, Easyjet, etc. and earn stupid money due to a bunk light.
They spout off about anyone and anything in the most appalling way – yet when anyone presents a reasoned argument that BASSA are not doing what they should, it becomes almost sacrilege.
The double standards that these people demonstrate is truly staggering, and is wearing the hard-working amongst us down. Is this what a Trade Union should be like?
They say “customer service” will diminish under the BA proposals – yet are happy to close off First Class, or cancel an entire flight (and thus peoples’ holidays, business functions, weddings, funerals to attend, etc.) due to being one crew member down.
They say they “are premium crew” – yet cannot serve a hot towel in WTP, or cannot do a manual duty free bar unless BASSA says so.
They say that “fat cats earn too much” – but think it acceptable that a WW CSD should earn £50000 and do very little onboard.
They call the “fat cats” selfish and lining their own pockets – but feel they should earn more than SFLGW, Easyjet, etc. and earn stupid money due to a bunk light.
They spout off about anyone and anything in the most appalling way – yet when anyone presents a reasoned argument that BASSA are not doing what they should, it becomes almost sacrilege.
The double standards that these people demonstrate is truly staggering, and is wearing the hard-working amongst us down. Is this what a Trade Union should be like?
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The reason they did not say anything was to keep you sweet. They know that if they said anything negative we/ you would jump down their throats. Yes very wise and professional of them not to say anything. They have not got a clue!
I would say, "You can't have it both ways", but I have a feeling that's not something the BASSA faithful would understand
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Well, someone on there had the "audacity" to ask why a poster had such a hatred for pilots. Got some rather agressive replies, although some have been deleted. Speaks for itself, really.
It's a sad world when people can't see past their blinkers.
Gg
It's a sad world when people can't see past their blinkers.
Gg
the lunatic fringe
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"I cannot look at our horizontal, 2 breaks, 5 bellys aircraft drivers without thinking the 4 letter "C" word. I arrived at the T5 crew report centre the other day and could'nt help myself saying the "C" word under my breath as I passed by them. Is it just me? I could'nt even acknowledge them on my trip or look them in the eye. Thank goodness I did'nt have to cater for them or listen to them mincing for a tea or coffee. At the hotel swimming pool I could'nt help myself but to blank the skipper as I passed by. Whats happening to me? Am I stereotyping them all with the same brush. Let me get this right.... BALPA are not supporting us cabin crew? BALPA are all BA pilots? If crew strike and sink BA, then all BALPA members loose their jobs and pensions right?? So why do they not support us? Because they are all "C****" and I'm alright JACK, excuse the lingo."
PPRuNe Person
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The pilots are horribly exposed as a group of appeasers who will not stand up to a lying and incompetent CEO, hiding behind a recession (as he did with 9/11 at AI), whose authority is ebbing away with each day his threat of imposition is left unactioned.
I've been on leave for a week, I gather there has been a 'failure to agree'. This will push things into September, the longer things go on, the worse will be the 'final solution'.
In the company I worked for before BA, (charter airline) it was rare to find crew, male or female, over the age of about 32. In almost all cases, crew members either lived with parents/house share or were a second income. Is this the direction that BASSA have steered themselves? I see no long term strategy by them, but I do see a lot of clever moves by WW.
There will be no strike, there will be imposition by BA.
Troll (Internet) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I think NutJob , you like Gg, represent a miniscule cluster of crew, whose comments are completely unrepresentative.
It is a completely unequal deal that BA have offered the pilots and cabin crew.
Pilots
Head Count approc 3245
Salary budget £445m
Cost savings required, only £38m
Percentage to be saved = 8.5%
Head count reduction = 66.42 (actually got 78)
Future incentive bonus plan £11m value
Cabin Crew
Head cont approc 14,000 (11,700 plus in BASSA)
Salary budget = £568m
Cost saving required = £210m
Percentage to be saved = 37%
Head count reduction = 2000
Future incentive bonus plan = ZERO
Yet BA pilots hae been alowed to retain their costly Bid Line, which also has a detrimental effect o the operation:
Why are pilots in BA allowed a system where the most junior pilots end up flying together to destinations which are the most demanding?
Senior pilots in either grade avoid flying to India at the moment because it is Monsoon season. Likewise they eschew Chicago and other northerly destinations in the winter. Why?
It is a completely unequal deal that BA have offered the pilots and cabin crew.
Pilots
Head Count approc 3245
Salary budget £445m
Cost savings required, only £38m
Percentage to be saved = 8.5%
Head count reduction = 66.42 (actually got 78)
Future incentive bonus plan £11m value
Cabin Crew
Head cont approc 14,000 (11,700 plus in BASSA)
Salary budget = £568m
Cost saving required = £210m
Percentage to be saved = 37%
Head count reduction = 2000
Future incentive bonus plan = ZERO
Yet BA pilots hae been alowed to retain their costly Bid Line, which also has a detrimental effect o the operation:
Why are pilots in BA allowed a system where the most junior pilots end up flying together to destinations which are the most demanding?
Senior pilots in either grade avoid flying to India at the moment because it is Monsoon season. Likewise they eschew Chicago and other northerly destinations in the winter. Why?
Last edited by Poof in Boots; 26th Jul 2009 at 08:26.
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PIB . you havent a clue dear. They are all trained to the same standard. Their seniority has nothing to do with their ability to fly in India or chicago year round. Its merely a preference which most like.
Its very clear that there is a minority of militant chippy Arthurs and Marthas who hate pilots usually because of the chip. They poison their colleagues with their vitriol.
Even the die hard militant elements of the pilots group saw the light or took VR.(the FD version of the poncy CSDs on silly money for no work)
The sooner the cancer is removed by a good heavy duty enema the sooner BA can move on as a company. Bring it on girls.
Its very clear that there is a minority of militant chippy Arthurs and Marthas who hate pilots usually because of the chip. They poison their colleagues with their vitriol.
Even the die hard militant elements of the pilots group saw the light or took VR.(the FD version of the poncy CSDs on silly money for no work)
The sooner the cancer is removed by a good heavy duty enema the sooner BA can move on as a company. Bring it on girls.
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L337 as a SCCM if there was any comments like you were refering to I would give you a hand chucking 'em off. Any comments even close in a briefing I'd hope to catch it first and make sure they didn't even get near the aircraft in the first place.
I'd like to think that the behaviours refered to are a minority. If not I have little hope for our future.
I'd like to think that the behaviours refered to are a minority. If not I have little hope for our future.
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Puss In Boots
I have followed this thread intently, without replying. There has been many reasonable and unreasonable comments made by the contributors, and as far as I can see, only the emotion has increased, not the understanding.
I am dismayed that attitudes described on this thread exist on our aeroplanes.
I believe that no matter how considered and measured my contribution may be, many crew (including yourself) would be unable to accept it.
Are you familiar with the SARA cycle? Shock, Anger, Rejection, Acceptance.
I'd suggest this may be appropriate given the description of some postings on other forums.
I would only ask that you do your best to separate facts from feelings, as your contributions to the thread would be far better received.
Going outside areas where you are totally familiar with, gives your contributions little credence.
Nor does your repeating of BASSA information, which is carefully edited to neglect the full picture.
A picture which I hope the crew can have full access to, before putting any cross on a ballot paper.
Please do continue to post, as many of us have sympathy with the difficult situation the cabin crew find themselves in. I'd hope many of us could empathise with that position if we were place there.
But I just hope you and our (mainly excellent) cabin crew are given the full facts as to why BA is proceeding in this manner.
I have followed this thread intently, without replying. There has been many reasonable and unreasonable comments made by the contributors, and as far as I can see, only the emotion has increased, not the understanding.
I am dismayed that attitudes described on this thread exist on our aeroplanes.
I believe that no matter how considered and measured my contribution may be, many crew (including yourself) would be unable to accept it.
Are you familiar with the SARA cycle? Shock, Anger, Rejection, Acceptance.
I'd suggest this may be appropriate given the description of some postings on other forums.
I would only ask that you do your best to separate facts from feelings, as your contributions to the thread would be far better received.
Going outside areas where you are totally familiar with, gives your contributions little credence.
Nor does your repeating of BASSA information, which is carefully edited to neglect the full picture.
A picture which I hope the crew can have full access to, before putting any cross on a ballot paper.
Please do continue to post, as many of us have sympathy with the difficult situation the cabin crew find themselves in. I'd hope many of us could empathise with that position if we were place there.
But I just hope you and our (mainly excellent) cabin crew are given the full facts as to why BA is proceeding in this manner.
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Well said Golden Ticket!
(Oh, and it came as a surprise to me that WW used to work for Air India-there was me thinking it was Aer Lingus....or is PiB mixing up his 2 letter codes? ) Halfwit.
(Oh, and it came as a surprise to me that WW used to work for Air India-there was me thinking it was Aer Lingus....or is PiB mixing up his 2 letter codes? ) Halfwit.
PiB, you're arrogance is breathtaking, and laughable, at the same time, because it is based on so little substance!
When it comes to 'lying', 'incompetent' and 'authority is ebbing away with each day' do you realise just how closely you are actually describing BASSA?
Oh that old chestnut, again! How many times has it been explained to you? The pilots have negotiated and renegotiated for years, so the necessity for a large reduction this time round is not there. Those of your ilk haven't taken their medicine for a long time ..... which is why it really is going to hurt in this round! Stick to the facts, and remember that the Mods have asked that you not compare apples and oranges i.e. leave the pilots Ts & Cs out of it.
Oh, really? Apart from the fact that you thought you were addressing a pilot, and you weren't, you seem to have forgotten the important point that the Captain (a pilot!) is commander of the flight. The FO or FOs (pilots!) are the deputy commanders. The company encourages interaction at the briefing stage, for very sound reasons, and if you don't like it then I suggest that you're in the wrong job and you need to volunteer yourself out of the company. Anyone displaying that juvenile attitude is very likely to be ordered into departing the flight, and likely the company, sharpish!
The pilots are horribly exposed as a group of appeasers who will not stand up to a lying and incompetent CEO, hiding behind a recession (as he did with 9/11 at AI), whose authority is ebbing away with each day his threat of imposition is left unactioned.
Pilots
Head Count approc 3245
Salary budget £445m
Cost savings required, only £38m
Percentage to be saved = 8.5%
Head count reduction = 66.42 (actually got 78)
Future incentive bonus plan £11m value
Cabin Crew
Head cont approc 14,000 (11,700 plus in BASSA)
Salary budget = £568m
Cost saving required = £210m
Percentage to be saved = 37%
Head count reduction = 2000
Future incentive bonus plan = ZERO
Head Count approc 3245
Salary budget £445m
Cost savings required, only £38m
Percentage to be saved = 8.5%
Head count reduction = 66.42 (actually got 78)
Future incentive bonus plan £11m value
Cabin Crew
Head cont approc 14,000 (11,700 plus in BASSA)
Salary budget = £568m
Cost saving required = £210m
Percentage to be saved = 37%
Head count reduction = 2000
Future incentive bonus plan = ZERO
..... if you venture into a Briefing, otherwise you will find yourself without a crew.
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I don't know how to quote another members posts but I am just wanted to ask Glamgirl something.
As a member of other forums, do you actually participate in debates on them or just report what's said on here?
I think you give rather a false impression of the majority of your colleagues - yes, there are the usual pilot bashers who seem to love an excuse to start ranting but if you look at the amount of hits a subject has compared to the few comments from the odd posters, I think you'll get a more balanced view. It's a shame you haven't posted the very reasonable responses.
Out of context and without the fuller picture, perhaps you're just adding fuel to the fire. Just a thought
As a member of other forums, do you actually participate in debates on them or just report what's said on here?
I think you give rather a false impression of the majority of your colleagues - yes, there are the usual pilot bashers who seem to love an excuse to start ranting but if you look at the amount of hits a subject has compared to the few comments from the odd posters, I think you'll get a more balanced view. It's a shame you haven't posted the very reasonable responses.
Out of context and without the fuller picture, perhaps you're just adding fuel to the fire. Just a thought
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FTW
To be fair to GG there are two thread streams on one of the forums about pilots one is 5 pages long the other 20 - they are amongst the longest on the forum.
Truly I think it's a great shame for all this anamosity to exist at all.
To be fair to GG there are two thread streams on one of the forums about pilots one is 5 pages long the other 20 - they are amongst the longest on the forum.
Truly I think it's a great shame for all this anamosity to exist at all.
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yes, I have seen the one that's 5 pages long. The good/well argued responses haven't been quoted and that's what I mean about giving an unfair impression (or in laymans terms, ****-stirring)
I thought it was also against forum rules to copy and paste from either? (and do moderators allow this??)
I'm not impressed with the anti-pilot posts either - their settlement has nothing to do with cabin crews, but I think it's very underhand to do this "snitching" when it's out of context and without the right of reply.
Matt, I agree, it's horrible having animosity, but telling tales from forum to forum only makes it worse, IMHO
I thought it was also against forum rules to copy and paste from either? (and do moderators allow this??)
I'm not impressed with the anti-pilot posts either - their settlement has nothing to do with cabin crews, but I think it's very underhand to do this "snitching" when it's out of context and without the right of reply.
Matt, I agree, it's horrible having animosity, but telling tales from forum to forum only makes it worse, IMHO
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Ive seen the forum those quotes were taken from. They were neither out of context nor unrepresentative. Indeed another poster has added their support in a similar vein. There are also the usual comments about how the pilots must hate cabin crew because they have been turned down by one, and how they must have 'little willies'. Bar one or two more reasoned posters I'd say GGs quotes quite accurately reflect the tone of that forum.
I note a witch hunt is now underway to find out who leaked the true face of the forum, with threats to publically name and shame the suspected mole (no proof positive required it seems, suspicion is enough). Didn't they learn that's still bullying and harassment? The latest threat:
It seems witheringly familiar to me that the clamour is not to identify the holder of such noxious views but to identify and punish the whistleblower. Reminiscent of the days of Stalin. Or New Labour.
I note a witch hunt is now underway to find out who leaked the true face of the forum, with threats to publically name and shame the suspected mole (no proof positive required it seems, suspicion is enough). Didn't they learn that's still bullying and harassment? The latest threat:
It is clear to me that the person doing the posting is someone seeking attention who seems to be very anti LHR cabin crew and ingratiating themselves with the pilot community within BA at every opportunity.
I believe I have isolated this person's access and will cancel their membership from CrewForum once we have come to our final conclusion.
................ I am not saying I will make your details public, only that you have agreed that I can.
I believe I have isolated this person's access and will cancel their membership from CrewForum once we have come to our final conclusion.
................ I am not saying I will make your details public, only that you have agreed that I can.
Last edited by Carnage Matey!; 26th Jul 2009 at 13:38.
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No you are talking absolute rubbish Carnage.
Gg is cherry picking selective quotes off of the Crew Forum to suit her own agenda. She never posts on the Crew Forum, but just looks and anything she can find to denigrate her colleagues, she posts it here.
Gg is cherry picking selective quotes off of the Crew Forum to suit her own agenda. She never posts on the Crew Forum, but just looks and anything she can find to denigrate her colleagues, she posts it here.
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Carnage Matey, there is no clamour, as you say, merely a request from members of that forum that the person who has broken forum rules is banned - not named and shamed. They have broken forum rules -I believe that applies here too? Perhaps a moderator could confirm.
Yes, you're correct, there are some very unpleasant posts, but wouldn't it be fairer if one must play reporter to post the (admittedly few) ones that aren't which would give it context and balance?
I suspect that the majority of the 1766 plus viewers of the copied thread (where there are some 40 or so posts (by about differing 21 posters) really don't want to get into a mud-slinging match - enough to worry about.
Yes, you're correct, there are some very unpleasant posts, but wouldn't it be fairer if one must play reporter to post the (admittedly few) ones that aren't which would give it context and balance?
I suspect that the majority of the 1766 plus viewers of the copied thread (where there are some 40 or so posts (by about differing 21 posters) really don't want to get into a mud-slinging match - enough to worry about.