British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Let me be blunt...if it ever happens on any of my flights I'll be advising the Captain that the aircraft will not be leaving one down with me onboard....Sorry...who's in charge. You make me laugh and laugh and laugh
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Going one down is a slippery slope Im affraid and will become common place. Again it appears that they are trying everything to undermine agreements that have been created for a reason.
So prehaps flight crew will be happy to operate with three instead of four whenever there is a shortage.
So prehaps flight crew will be happy to operate with three instead of four whenever there is a shortage.
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Flight crew regularly do depart with less crew than they're entitled to: witness downroute disruption or any delayed 3 man HKG or 2 man MIA. They're entitled to go back to stand for the extra man but they don't.
In the case in question only the magnanimity of the Captain kept Vicky Pollard on board. With an extra standby called out it's clear that the he'd already considered offloading the trouble maker and could have done so should he have wished. I suspect it was only the presence of his/her case in the hold that kept the insubordinate one on the trip. Don't make the mistake of thinking your union is in charge if the aircraft. It isn't, and if you give the commander lip you'll be waving goodbye to the aircraft from T5.
In the case in question only the magnanimity of the Captain kept Vicky Pollard on board. With an extra standby called out it's clear that the he'd already considered offloading the trouble maker and could have done so should he have wished. I suspect it was only the presence of his/her case in the hold that kept the insubordinate one on the trip. Don't make the mistake of thinking your union is in charge if the aircraft. It isn't, and if you give the commander lip you'll be waving goodbye to the aircraft from T5.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Flyeruk69,
I'm just wondering where you got the details of the "proposed" disruption agreement? I haven't seen/heard anything from BA on this (apart from needing it to change from 2 local nights after a diversion). Is this Bassa's take on what would happen, or has it been published by the company as well?
Gg
Ps. In regards to working with less crew on either fleet, I'm afraid you'll have a big fight on your hands avoiding that, as LGW has been doing it for years and we manage to provide just as well a service with less crew than LHR. Yes it means working harder, but it can be done.
I'm just wondering where you got the details of the "proposed" disruption agreement? I haven't seen/heard anything from BA on this (apart from needing it to change from 2 local nights after a diversion). Is this Bassa's take on what would happen, or has it been published by the company as well?
Gg
Ps. In regards to working with less crew on either fleet, I'm afraid you'll have a big fight on your hands avoiding that, as LGW has been doing it for years and we manage to provide just as well a service with less crew than LHR. Yes it means working harder, but it can be done.
Last edited by Glamgirl; 11th Aug 2009 at 14:18. Reason: adding a ps
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Cabin Crew are in the middle of a dispute at the moment.....try and get your heads out of the pilot universe for a moment...its not the real world.
If a crew member wants to get off the aircraft because some Captain insists on leaving crew down, then thats whats going to happen. I have it on good authority that on the flight in question 7 crew would have walked off the aircraft if the pilots attempted to leave without the full crew compliment. Captain,God whoever can do nowt about it. No full crew compliment...No flight..End of story
If a crew member wants to get off the aircraft because some Captain insists on leaving crew down, then thats whats going to happen. I have it on good authority that on the flight in question 7 crew would have walked off the aircraft if the pilots attempted to leave without the full crew compliment. Captain,God whoever can do nowt about it. No full crew compliment...No flight..End of story
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Last time I checked BA didn't have a seperate section of aviation law from charter. Once the door's closed were going! And no, I do not grant you permission to use your phone on board to call BASSA!
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Unfortunately agreements are agreements whether you like it or not. So either this gets added to the list on the dispute items or maybe procedure will change so that cc do not board the aircraft until the correct crew compliment is present. But I am sure this matter is being looked at along with the many other issues at present.
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FlyerUk69 - it does not say anywhere in the proposal that you would be "in on days off" under the new Disruption Agreement. This is another myth perpetuated by BASSA for their own devious means. Read the BA proposal yourself. It says:
Contact Cabin Crew at home to advise of roster changes during disruption
Introduction of willing-to-work
Therefore if you were rostered to work while disruption was ongoing IT MAY CHANGE. If you were a WTW volunteer then you could be contacted to work WHEN WILLING!! ABSOLUTELY ZILCH ZERO NOTHING NADA ABOUT COMING IN ON DAYS OFF!!!
I am actually extremely tired and drained of having to explain the BA proposal to people now. They cannot use their own words; they simply spout BASSA crap and it usually goes something like this:
Please, please please read and understand the BA proposal for yourself. BASSA are pepetuating myths for their own agenda. Do not get caught up in it.
Contact Cabin Crew at home to advise of roster changes during disruption
Introduction of willing-to-work
Therefore if you were rostered to work while disruption was ongoing IT MAY CHANGE. If you were a WTW volunteer then you could be contacted to work WHEN WILLING!! ABSOLUTELY ZILCH ZERO NOTHING NADA ABOUT COMING IN ON DAYS OFF!!!
I am actually extremely tired and drained of having to explain the BA proposal to people now. They cannot use their own words; they simply spout BASSA crap and it usually goes something like this:
The pilots got a great deal and are getting it all back in two years time.
Why are cabin crew being singled out and not other departments?
This is all due to bad management - price fixing/T5 blah blah blah
BA want us to take a paycut.
I want to work harder I don't want a paycut.
Why are cabin crew being singled out and not other departments?
This is all due to bad management - price fixing/T5 blah blah blah
BA want us to take a paycut.
I want to work harder I don't want a paycut.
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Highflyer,
I'm not getting my hopes up in regards to Bassa militants analysing things for themselves. Considering they're still comparing the LCY-NYC route with OpenSkies and saying it'll cost millions etc etc, even though we've explained plenty of times what's happening with that route and who's paying for it.
Mental block, fingers in ears anyone?
The people saying they're willing to work harder but for same money... This is the frustrating bit, because they won't accept less crew, shorter trips, fixed links, or anything else in the proposal. Is there someone out there (pro Bassa preferably) who would like to tell us how they're willing to work harder? I'm really interested to know what they'd be interested in agreeing to.
Gg
I'm not getting my hopes up in regards to Bassa militants analysing things for themselves. Considering they're still comparing the LCY-NYC route with OpenSkies and saying it'll cost millions etc etc, even though we've explained plenty of times what's happening with that route and who's paying for it.
Mental block, fingers in ears anyone?
The people saying they're willing to work harder but for same money... This is the frustrating bit, because they won't accept less crew, shorter trips, fixed links, or anything else in the proposal. Is there someone out there (pro Bassa preferably) who would like to tell us how they're willing to work harder? I'm really interested to know what they'd be interested in agreeing to.
Gg
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Interestingly, the subscription fee for another section of Unite is being increased by 10%. This is not an airline section of Unite.
Is this to pay legal fees for BA taking Unite/Bassa to court, or to pay for the pay rises to the "managers" of Unite?
Answers on a post card please.
Gg
Is this to pay legal fees for BA taking Unite/Bassa to court, or to pay for the pay rises to the "managers" of Unite?
Answers on a post card please.
Gg
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A number of threaders have stated that there seems to be no plan for industrial action at this time. Were you to see the Waterside staffers involved in emergency / contingency planning for such an event it would seem to me that WW is not taking it very seriously as many members of the crisis teams would be hard pressed to plan a dog walking exercise let alone a free party? Yes its that bad!
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Potopilot wrote: No full crew compliment...No flight..End of story
D.
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What's the big deal about being one CC down? It is clear that other centres operate different crewing levels to LHR without compromising safety. I am sure that if you asked the pax if they wanted to delay the flight or do without (say) coffee, you would get a pretty definitive answer! Most people have places to be and a time to be there (even if it is just a holiday) and having paid their money, want the journey to happen. Or perhaps you have lost sight of the fact that you are employed to provide a service to the paying customer.