British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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yeah well not here, BA certainly our not leaders. 
anything but actually they are JUST my employers. In fact my true leaders are the older cabin crew who fought tooth and nail for what we have, they are excellent with the passengers and have been my leaders onboard. Juts to let you know you are not in South America here and we do not have dictators, even BA are trying damn hard!! 
anything but actually they are JUST my employers. In fact my true leaders are the older cabin crew who fought tooth and nail for what we have, they are excellent with the passengers and have been my leaders onboard. Juts to let you know you are not in South America here and we do not have dictators, even BA are trying damn hard!!
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The Blu Riband, most crew would be happy to work with one crew member down, I say only, if BA will pay us the agreed payment. Working one down is not the problem. The problem is that BA would like us to work one down without the payment that they agreed on.
Can BA be trusted that if crew worked one down that this would not become a regular occurrence. Lets not forget it was not so long ago that the removal of No16 was a temp measure, only for BA to go back on its word.
Can BA be trusted that if crew worked one down that this would not become a regular occurrence. Lets not forget it was not so long ago that the removal of No16 was a temp measure, only for BA to go back on its word.
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To the newbies (recently arrived from CF by the looks of it),
Do you seriously not realise that your posts make you sound like you're from another planet? The way you come across is ridiculous, you sound like kindergarden kids. If I was a potential passenger, I wouldn't book a ticket with BA as I wouldn't want to risk you being on the aircraft.
Please kick your brain into gear, behave like an adult. Stop slagging people off and try to prove to us what you "love" about your job and how you provide "the best service".
Gg
Do you seriously not realise that your posts make you sound like you're from another planet? The way you come across is ridiculous, you sound like kindergarden kids. If I was a potential passenger, I wouldn't book a ticket with BA as I wouldn't want to risk you being on the aircraft.
Please kick your brain into gear, behave like an adult. Stop slagging people off and try to prove to us what you "love" about your job and how you provide "the best service".
Gg
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Originally Posted by I-said_no
This is not a one off. At LGW incharge crew members are beeing asked to put J entilement staff pax in club without the extra crew member.
I don't understand why you don't get the one down payment. If this is an agreement, is it not automatic? On the few occasions I have had to operate one light at LGW, and it is nowhere near as common as people would have you believe, the payment has never an issue. So what's different at LHR? Why do you struggle to get it up there?
Jsl
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Potopilot / PiB
8% of the workforce unemployed, highest unemployment since 1995 but you would walk into another job?
Your arrogance is unbelievable.
P.S Highest number of graduates EVER on the unemployed pile. Still think you're going to sit at the top of that pile?
8% of the workforce unemployed, highest unemployment since 1995 but you would walk into another job?
Your arrogance is unbelievable.
P.S Highest number of graduates EVER on the unemployed pile. Still think you're going to sit at the top of that pile?
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Nutjob...I dont mind debating these issues with you but could you please at least read my posts as they are written if your going to quote me. Did I say I was going to be top of the pile...try and stop spinning everything unless, of course, you realise its the only way to get your point over.
There seems to be a myth amongst the flight crew community that cabin crew came straight from school, or the job center or wherever. Actually, most of us gave up good careers to come flying. I know my posts do sound arrogant but between you and me its just a bit of sword play. The fact is I love flying...not of all it..the politics suck and the current LT are cowboys. I will, however, fight for my T&CS right to the bitter end. If it means losing my job then so be it. You are underestimating how much the cabin crew is committed to seeing this through...we will not back down. Not this time.
I have kept up with my qualifications...there are in recency. I was asked the question what I would do if I lost my job flying. I would go back to Canada and get a job in the oil industry....maybe at the bottom of the rung...but a well paid job nevertheless. Thems the facts
There seems to be a myth amongst the flight crew community that cabin crew came straight from school, or the job center or wherever. Actually, most of us gave up good careers to come flying. I know my posts do sound arrogant but between you and me its just a bit of sword play. The fact is I love flying...not of all it..the politics suck and the current LT are cowboys. I will, however, fight for my T&CS right to the bitter end. If it means losing my job then so be it. You are underestimating how much the cabin crew is committed to seeing this through...we will not back down. Not this time.
I have kept up with my qualifications...there are in recency. I was asked the question what I would do if I lost my job flying. I would go back to Canada and get a job in the oil industry....maybe at the bottom of the rung...but a well paid job nevertheless. Thems the facts
Junior trash
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maybe at the bottom of the rung...but a well paid job nevertheless. Thems the facts
PPRuNe Person
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You are underestimating how much the cabin crew is committed to seeing this through...we will not back down.
Many of the crew I have spoken to are fearful for their jobs, which they actually need....
potopilot,
Ah, so you've recognised your 'vitriolic nonsense'? Outstanding! That means we might be making progress.
But, on second thoughts, perhaps not?
You just cant stand anyone (pilots, cabin crew, anyone!) who thinks for themselves, can you? And it is only those of your ilk who consider any criticism here as 'CC bashing' - there are cabin crew who post here that are perfectly capable of elucidating their thoughts in ways you can only hope to do so. These cabin crew have formulated opinions based on doing their own research and thinking, instead of blindly relying on the Soviet-style propaganda that pours out of BASSA.
What you like to refer to as 'CC bashing' is actually reasoned criticism of those that only wish to hear BASSA, instead of opening their eyes to the real world! You don't like it because it is aimed at your slavish adherence to the mutterings of a clueless union.
And you think that your contributions over on the 'other' forums don't amount to vitriolic pilot/company bashing? If you can't stand it, potopilot, you are free to leave! If you dare! But you just can't help yourself, can you?
...are you for real. Do you read other posts on here......some of them are just full of vitrolic nonsense. This forum is infamous for mindless CC bashing.
But, on second thoughts, perhaps not?
You just cant stand anyone (pilots, cabin crew, anyone!) who thinks for themselves, can you? And it is only those of your ilk who consider any criticism here as 'CC bashing' - there are cabin crew who post here that are perfectly capable of elucidating their thoughts in ways you can only hope to do so. These cabin crew have formulated opinions based on doing their own research and thinking, instead of blindly relying on the Soviet-style propaganda that pours out of BASSA.
What you like to refer to as 'CC bashing' is actually reasoned criticism of those that only wish to hear BASSA, instead of opening their eyes to the real world! You don't like it because it is aimed at your slavish adherence to the mutterings of a clueless union.
And you think that your contributions over on the 'other' forums don't amount to vitriolic pilot/company bashing? If you can't stand it, potopilot, you are free to leave! If you dare! But you just can't help yourself, can you?
I've asked a few questions on this thread, and I've posted a few opinions. Thank you for the various sensible replies.
However, the "ranting" characters on both sides who have no interest in reaching any sort of agreement are making this thread very boring.
Other than the dates, which have slipped a bit, CM had it about right many posts ago.
Is the thread going to just be assertion and counter assertion, or is anyone going to come up with sensible, creative ideas for a solution?
I'm sure that GG doesn't really want to create a new union, but may be that's the way to go.....
However, the "ranting" characters on both sides who have no interest in reaching any sort of agreement are making this thread very boring.
Other than the dates, which have slipped a bit, CM had it about right many posts ago.
Is the thread going to just be assertion and counter assertion, or is anyone going to come up with sensible, creative ideas for a solution?
I'm sure that GG doesn't really want to create a new union, but may be that's the way to go.....
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What everyone is forgetting here is that a demotivated frontline workforce is detrimental to the customer.
If an employee is made to feel a burden and not worthy, then the customer suffers.
Also, the less rest time downroute affects health significantly which also affects the customer by being served by tired crew.
In this rush to save costs from the frontline, the plan is doomed to fail.
Where the focus should be is saving from the top of the pyramid, the chairman, chief executive and all the other layers of management, then, only then come to crew and ground staff.
You could say this has been done already withh 500 managers removed, but when certain ones have been re employed on £1000 a day contract, the whole argument becomes laughable.
BA will never move forward until the mentality of the top leaders changes dramatically, focussing on the customer and its most valued asset, its frontline staff.
If an employee is made to feel a burden and not worthy, then the customer suffers.
Also, the less rest time downroute affects health significantly which also affects the customer by being served by tired crew.
In this rush to save costs from the frontline, the plan is doomed to fail.
Where the focus should be is saving from the top of the pyramid, the chairman, chief executive and all the other layers of management, then, only then come to crew and ground staff.
You could say this has been done already withh 500 managers removed, but when certain ones have been re employed on £1000 a day contract, the whole argument becomes laughable.
BA will never move forward until the mentality of the top leaders changes dramatically, focussing on the customer and its most valued asset, its frontline staff.
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of course most crew are fearful for their jobs, but not in the way you think. Most crew are fearful for what is to come. Under BA new proposals I can almost assure you that the job wouldn't be worth coming in for.
They literally want to take the union and have crew work hard and under disgusting term and conditions, for two years and leave.
In fact, most crew are not going to silently sign anything. of course there will be (dumb) crew that will do just that and in two years they will be the ones in tears when they see that the job they once did is no longer the job they do now and believe me that will happen.
I will fight to the end and I will support my union. Bring it on!!
They literally want to take the union and have crew work hard and under disgusting term and conditions, for two years and leave.
In fact, most crew are not going to silently sign anything. of course there will be (dumb) crew that will do just that and in two years they will be the ones in tears when they see that the job they once did is no longer the job they do now and believe me that will happen.
I will fight to the end and I will support my union. Bring it on!!
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one nightstop on worldwide??? 9 days off a month on Eurofleet? One day more than office workers in healthy environment!!! One in charge on the 767?? Late finish on your last day? 10pm?? Disgusting!! 
Actually BA wanted midnight but the union was the one that come with 10pm which is fine, they had no choice.
So don't you dare tell me as cabin crew that these things are acceptable. If you have them at LGW that is your problem not ours and all the crew who transfered from LGW who are wonderful by the way, are totally up for a good fight too. After the stories I have heard I don't blame them. Bring it on!!!
Actually BA wanted midnight but the union was the one that come with 10pm which is fine, they had no choice. So don't you dare tell me as cabin crew that these things are acceptable. If you have them at LGW that is your problem not ours and all the crew who transfered from LGW who are wonderful by the way, are totally up for a good fight too. After the stories I have heard I don't blame them. Bring it on!!!
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What amazes me is that the initial savings required of the CC community was around the £80m mark. (don't quote me on figures). This of course is not a temporary loan but a permanent saving.
The proposal BASSA put forward saved according to them £150m+ (albeit some of it temporarily). PW & C's estimation of those savings was in the region of £50m actual savings.
Seems to me that an extra £30m wouldnt have been that hard to find to keep all of you in a job and +/- on the same money as you are now but just working a little harder!
Failing to come to a conclusion has now upped your targeted savings because the company's financial position has deteriorated.
To me it looks like, if your union had actually been able to come to the discussion table without shouting 'No no no' and let the deadline pass, we wouldnt be in this situation we are in now.
And 2000+ CC weren't looking down the potential barrel of unemployment.
I hate to say it guys/girls, no one has ever asked you for a paycut. Just a savings requirement which for 70% could have easily been achieved by improving efficiencies far away from your bottom line.
The 30% paycut is a complete myth. New Contract Crews (post '97)/ LGW T&C's are fast becoming a big group in BA and unfortunately they tend not to be the ones at the forefront of your Unions mind.
Ask yourself the question, are you being properly represented or not. Are YOUR best interests at heart?
The proposal BASSA put forward saved according to them £150m+ (albeit some of it temporarily). PW & C's estimation of those savings was in the region of £50m actual savings.
Seems to me that an extra £30m wouldnt have been that hard to find to keep all of you in a job and +/- on the same money as you are now but just working a little harder!
Failing to come to a conclusion has now upped your targeted savings because the company's financial position has deteriorated.
To me it looks like, if your union had actually been able to come to the discussion table without shouting 'No no no' and let the deadline pass, we wouldnt be in this situation we are in now.
And 2000+ CC weren't looking down the potential barrel of unemployment.
I hate to say it guys/girls, no one has ever asked you for a paycut. Just a savings requirement which for 70% could have easily been achieved by improving efficiencies far away from your bottom line.
The 30% paycut is a complete myth. New Contract Crews (post '97)/ LGW T&C's are fast becoming a big group in BA and unfortunately they tend not to be the ones at the forefront of your Unions mind.
Ask yourself the question, are you being properly represented or not. Are YOUR best interests at heart?
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Shaka Zulu.....its actually potentailly 35% and its exactly the post 97 crew that it will effect the most as their poportion of salary to premium and allowance payments is lower.
Sorry....you obviously have the difinitive results from the recent audit..would you mind posting them so we can have a look.
This is not about any current proposals. Its politics. Walsh wants BASSA gone so he can enforce is real agenda. Their new contract proposal is the tip of the iceberg. Please please dont listen to the company orientated propaganda on this forum. Its incredibly ill informed.
Sorry....you obviously have the difinitive results from the recent audit..would you mind posting them so we can have a look.
This is not about any current proposals. Its politics. Walsh wants BASSA gone so he can enforce is real agenda. Their new contract proposal is the tip of the iceberg. Please please dont listen to the company orientated propaganda on this forum. Its incredibly ill informed.
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Flying chick wrote:
one nightstop on worldwide??? 9 days off a month on Eurofleet? One day more than office workers in healthy environment!!! One in charge on the 767?? Late finish on your last day? 10pm?? Disgusting!!
So don't you dare tell me as cabin crew that these things are acceptable. If you have them at LGW that is your problem not ours and all the crew who transfered from LGW who are wonderful by the way, are totally up for a good fight too. After the stories I have heard I don't blame them. Bring it on!!!
FC,
Night stop on some routes, but do keep in mind that some of the 14 destinations do not depart every day, so would be more than one night.
9 days off is acceptable, although not ideal. I'm sure office workers don't necessarily feel they're in a healthy environment with aircon, dust etc.
Single supervisory role on 767 is on Eurofleet, not WW. Do you really need 2 supervisors on a short haul flight?
Finish time before days off. Well, at LGW (I know you don't care, but anyways) we have to have chocks on by 22.31 before a day off (at the latest - otherwise you get another day off).
How many secondees have you spoken to? Some might say what you state, but not all, I'm sure. Some actually want to come back to LGW asap as they're not having a nice time at all. We're all different (thank goodness).
Gg
one nightstop on worldwide??? 9 days off a month on Eurofleet? One day more than office workers in healthy environment!!! One in charge on the 767?? Late finish on your last day? 10pm?? Disgusting!!
So don't you dare tell me as cabin crew that these things are acceptable. If you have them at LGW that is your problem not ours and all the crew who transfered from LGW who are wonderful by the way, are totally up for a good fight too. After the stories I have heard I don't blame them. Bring it on!!!
FC,
Night stop on some routes, but do keep in mind that some of the 14 destinations do not depart every day, so would be more than one night.
9 days off is acceptable, although not ideal. I'm sure office workers don't necessarily feel they're in a healthy environment with aircon, dust etc.
Single supervisory role on 767 is on Eurofleet, not WW. Do you really need 2 supervisors on a short haul flight?
Finish time before days off. Well, at LGW (I know you don't care, but anyways) we have to have chocks on by 22.31 before a day off (at the latest - otherwise you get another day off).
How many secondees have you spoken to? Some might say what you state, but not all, I'm sure. Some actually want to come back to LGW asap as they're not having a nice time at all. We're all different (thank goodness).
Gg
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Geardown107
There has been a fine display of CRM on this forum. I know hundreds of who you refer to as militants who have fought this company tooth and nail to keep our contracts. They are still here..will be here tomorow. Please inform me of any you know of that have had to visit the job center.
And who's going to initiate the afore mentioned sending to the job centre.....certainly not you old chum.
There has been a fine display of CRM on this forum. I know hundreds of who you refer to as militants who have fought this company tooth and nail to keep our contracts. They are still here..will be here tomorow. Please inform me of any you know of that have had to visit the job center.
And who's going to initiate the afore mentioned sending to the job centre.....certainly not you old chum.
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Originally Posted by flying_chick
So don't you dare tell me as cabin crew that these things are acceptable. If you have them at LGW that is your problem not ours