British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
BYMONEK,
Plodding Along's second para is on the money! Up till now BASSA have insisted that cabin crew diverting from their scheduled destination have 2 nights off! Crazy, when you consider that everyone should be going the extra mile to get passengers to their ultimate destination as soon as possible.
Certainly, in the last snow disruption earlier this year, BA had aircraft diverted to places like Manchester and Birmingham whereupon BASSA got their oar in and insisted that the cabin crew had 2 nights off. Meanwhile the pilots were on minimal rest and then flying empty aircraft back to LHR (once weather suitable/snow cleared) the next day. Pax were obviously unimpressed, left behind to be bussed to wherever ...... because cabin crew wouldn't play ball, and all because of a nonsensical BASSA 'rule'! It just beggars belief! When the wheels are coming off, all employees should be pulling to get the customers to their destination, within the limits of the law and safety requirements. BASSA's 'rules' have little to do with either the law or safety, and the fact that BA ever let such 'rules' enter historical negotiations says something about both BASSA and the company folk dealing with them!
BA wan't to end this pointless, damaging, expensive nonsense (and rightly so) by insisting that under new terms, cabin crew will have to put customers first during times of disruption (should be during all services, really). Consequently they will have to be more flexible about their normal working arrangements so that recovery from disruption is quickly achieved.
In simple terms, they need to extract finger and go all out to deliver an outcome suitable for the customer. No more selfish nonsense. And if it means disrupting their personal lives and plans for a day or two, then so be it!
Plodding Along's second para is on the money! Up till now BASSA have insisted that cabin crew diverting from their scheduled destination have 2 nights off! Crazy, when you consider that everyone should be going the extra mile to get passengers to their ultimate destination as soon as possible.
Certainly, in the last snow disruption earlier this year, BA had aircraft diverted to places like Manchester and Birmingham whereupon BASSA got their oar in and insisted that the cabin crew had 2 nights off. Meanwhile the pilots were on minimal rest and then flying empty aircraft back to LHR (once weather suitable/snow cleared) the next day. Pax were obviously unimpressed, left behind to be bussed to wherever ...... because cabin crew wouldn't play ball, and all because of a nonsensical BASSA 'rule'! It just beggars belief! When the wheels are coming off, all employees should be pulling to get the customers to their destination, within the limits of the law and safety requirements. BASSA's 'rules' have little to do with either the law or safety, and the fact that BA ever let such 'rules' enter historical negotiations says something about both BASSA and the company folk dealing with them!
BA wan't to end this pointless, damaging, expensive nonsense (and rightly so) by insisting that under new terms, cabin crew will have to put customers first during times of disruption (should be during all services, really). Consequently they will have to be more flexible about their normal working arrangements so that recovery from disruption is quickly achieved.
In simple terms, they need to extract finger and go all out to deliver an outcome suitable for the customer. No more selfish nonsense. And if it means disrupting their personal lives and plans for a day or two, then so be it!
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Oh dear oh dear. The 'Hotspur' boys have been outsmarted by the Beano mob. Got to find another hundred sacrificial lambs then lads? Maybe you can cover it with unpaid leave, but of course you have a no strike contract now.Got to take the pain and can't do a thing about it!
Tears were literally rolling down my cheeks to read in the Times on Thursday that with a small drop in capacity BA's load factor has gone up. Even with Walsh talking the business down, the opposite happens.
The Beano mob have played a blinder drawing out negotiations until the recession has turned the corner. What sort of figures were BALPA looking at? Did they not see this improvement in performance forecast by Walsh? Obviously not. Now they are stitched up with their pay cut.
Best to play a waiting game sometimes lads, rather than falling over yourselves to suck up to Walsh.
Tears were literally rolling down my cheeks to read in the Times on Thursday that with a small drop in capacity BA's load factor has gone up. Even with Walsh talking the business down, the opposite happens.
The Beano mob have played a blinder drawing out negotiations until the recession has turned the corner. What sort of figures were BALPA looking at? Did they not see this improvement in performance forecast by Walsh? Obviously not. Now they are stitched up with their pay cut.
Best to play a waiting game sometimes lads, rather than falling over yourselves to suck up to Walsh.
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PiB,
Can I once again remind you of the title of this thread? It's about CC, not pilots. The way you come across in your latest post is very childish and puts you in a rather bad light.
Please, grow up and post something useful to the discussion. Thank you.
Gg
Can I once again remind you of the title of this thread? It's about CC, not pilots. The way you come across in your latest post is very childish and puts you in a rather bad light.
Please, grow up and post something useful to the discussion. Thank you.
Gg
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Tears were literally rolling down my cheeks to read in the Times on Thursday that with a small drop in capacity BA's load factor has gone up. Even with Walsh talking the business down, the opposite happens.
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Gg. Maybe we should have a whip round and buy you an ATPL course. You are wasted as a hostie. Your personal disposition and intellect is far better suited in the cockpit.
The Brylcreem Boys need you especially old 'Spanky' Carnage.
The Brylcreem Boys need you especially old 'Spanky' Carnage.
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747-436
Eveyone has to discount in a recession to get business. I have just bought a new car with a 20% discount and four years interest free credit. That wasn't on offer two years ago.
Unlike after 9/11, passengers are not frightened to fly. Yields will return and Walsh's claim of "structural change" will turn out to be rubbish.
Eveyone has to discount in a recession to get business. I have just bought a new car with a 20% discount and four years interest free credit. That wasn't on offer two years ago.
Unlike after 9/11, passengers are not frightened to fly. Yields will return and Walsh's claim of "structural change" will turn out to be rubbish.
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PiB,
I can't really be bothered, but here it is anyways.
You can save your money. I've no interest in becoming a pilot. I do however, have an interest in not relishing in other people's discomfort. You seem to only come on here late at night, why is that? Is it because you've had a couple of glasses of your favourite tipple and therefore have some "Dutch" courage? Or are you trying to avoid the Mods?
Seriously, you do need to grow up. You make yourself and your like-minded colleagues look ridiculous.
Gg
I can't really be bothered, but here it is anyways.
You can save your money. I've no interest in becoming a pilot. I do however, have an interest in not relishing in other people's discomfort. You seem to only come on here late at night, why is that? Is it because you've had a couple of glasses of your favourite tipple and therefore have some "Dutch" courage? Or are you trying to avoid the Mods?
Seriously, you do need to grow up. You make yourself and your like-minded colleagues look ridiculous.
Gg
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In the last dispute you said you would walk through a picket line and now once again you will not support your colleagues.
You are happy to be demoted you say, take less pay, for what? To enhance shareholders profits?
Get real.
You are happy to be demoted you say, take less pay, for what? To enhance shareholders profits?
Get real.
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PiB,
You really are living in a dream world! I wish I could have the same resounding confidence in the economy as you do but, unfortunately I live in the real world not yours.
What corner? I see the Bank of England is sooooo confident like the well informed BASSA tub thumpers that it has decided to celebrate by injecting yet another £50 billion of the future tax payers money into the economy because 'the recession is over'.
Perhaps then you should run for the job of CEO yourself? It seems you have it all tied up and your quips could amuse everyone who works for you?
Errrrrm, no, it wasn't as market forces two years ago dictated that people would buy cars, along with any other consumable items, at the list price. Oddly enough, now, in the real world where the sky is blue (occasionally) people don't have the disposable income to pay the prices as dictated two years ago, the manufacturing and service industries are in the doldrums and doing everything they can to attract customers. Much like reducing the price of a ticket to such an extent where they make a loss just to stop the passenger flying with a rival airline in the hope the rival folds before they do! Sound familiar? Oh, no because you live in BASSA land.
What next? Who knows.
You really are living in a dream world! I wish I could have the same resounding confidence in the economy as you do but, unfortunately I live in the real world not yours.
The Beano mob have played a blinder drawing out negotiations until the recession has turned the corner.
Yields will return and Walsh's claim of "structural change" will turnout to be rubbish.
I have just bought a new car with a 20% discount and four years interest free credit. That wasn't on offer two years ago.
What next? Who knows.
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You are happy to be demoted you say, take less pay, for what? To enhance shareholders profits?
If the shareholders run, we have another 'Northern Rock' and then the Beano boys will have lots to smirk about in the dole queue.
As you say
Get real
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Well Wobble. You will be proved to be wrong in your assessment.
Gordon Brown does not want to lose the next election and it might just come good for him. BA will be on the leading edge of any recovery as it has always been a barometer for the UK economy.
If Walsh hasn't planned to take Business Class seats out just as the economy takes off, we should do very well next year with the current T&C's of staff.
Gordon Brown does not want to lose the next election and it might just come good for him. BA will be on the leading edge of any recovery as it has always been a barometer for the UK economy.
If Walsh hasn't planned to take Business Class seats out just as the economy takes off, we should do very well next year with the current T&C's of staff.
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Same old, same old......
Another hundred? Where was the first hundred? This is the first volume related CR and entirely expected and publicised by BALPA, oooh, about 2 months ago. I have the newsletter if you'd like it. How many volume related CRs are BASSA looking at once you've shed the 2000 HCE required for the business plan? If we're parking 11 Jumbos how many cabin crew is that over and above the 2000? BASSA have warned you about that, haven't they? Are you going to have another strike over that one? My my, it's starting to look like the BASSA "Strike over EVERYTHING!" campaign last time (you know, when you got stitched up by Tony Woodley? More on that later). I doubt we'll be striking, and thats nothing to do with a non-existent no strike contract that you like to imagine, it's just we can handle it comfortably with unpaid leave. I wonder what BASSAs contingency plan is?
Load. Yield. You know the difference, so does everybody else here.
Sounds like you've had one too many crew purchases. Did you miss the 90 million loss we announced in Q1. Recession over indeed.
And no pay cut for us until you deliver all of your departmental savings. In full.
Will see who's right when your solution is imposed. Have you filled in BFs survey yet? I did one for you on ESS.
Now about that nice Mr Woodley. I had to laugh when I saw this rubbish from your union today:
Poor old Dunc, the stress must be getting to him. He seems to have forgotten that just moments earlier he wrote:
So everything is in your hands and Tony has no influence on you. Except when he says you can't hold a strike ballot. Ouch. Game, set and match BA. New constitution or not, your fate is in the hands of one man who is not inclined to strike, who has folded before BA before and, if rumours are to be believed, still has his balls firmly in the BA vice over Gate Gourmet. What a mess! And this is the man BA has called up to negotiate with at the Standing Conference!! You see Poof, the problem is that BASSA didn't take the idea of a deadline seriously. They thought they could go on and on, stalling BA, without consequences. The reality is that instead of shaping your future you've been sidelined. BA won't even talk to your reps now, they want the organ grinder, not the monkey. And the organ grinder's about to throw you a few nuts then sign away your future to BA. I pity you.
Originally Posted by Pif
Got to find another hundred sacrificial lambs then lads? Maybe you can cover it with unpaid leave, but of course you have a no strike contract now.Got to take the pain and can't do a thing about it!
Tears were literally rolling down my cheeks to read in the Times on Thursday that with a small drop in capacity BA's load factor has gone up. Even with Walsh talking the business down, the opposite happens.
The Beano mob have played a blinder drawing out negotiations until the recession has turned the corner. What sort of figures were BALPA looking at? Did they not see this improvement in performance forecast by Walsh? Obviously not. Now they are stitched up with their pay cut.
And no pay cut for us until you deliver all of your departmental savings. In full.
Best to play a waiting game sometimes lads, rather than falling over yourselves to suck up to Walsh.
Now about that nice Mr Woodley. I had to laugh when I saw this rubbish from your union today:
Originally Posted by BASSA
Over my dead body will UNITE/TONY WOODLEY be able to exercise any unwanted influence on you - you have my word on that
Originally Posted by BASSA
The situation with Tony Woodley is very clear. His permission is needed to run a ballot for industrial action if BA go ahead an impose any changes to agreements. After that moment everything is in your hands.
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PiB,
I stand by walking past a picket line because I will vote NO for a strike if it comes to that. I won't support something I don't believe in.
I said I'd be happy to demote myself for a year or so, as it would actually increase my allowances. So more pay, not less (and certainly nothing to do with lining the sharholders pockets). Do you think it's fair that Pursers (and some CM's) earn less than Main Crew although they're in charge on board? Surely not.
Gg
I stand by walking past a picket line because I will vote NO for a strike if it comes to that. I won't support something I don't believe in.
I said I'd be happy to demote myself for a year or so, as it would actually increase my allowances. So more pay, not less (and certainly nothing to do with lining the sharholders pockets). Do you think it's fair that Pursers (and some CM's) earn less than Main Crew although they're in charge on board? Surely not.
Gg
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It is natural that the shareholders should take the pain during a temporary downturn via a Rights Issue. They will profit from that as the share price rises.
BA has had to poach £300m from the pension fund after it set aside £350m for the payment of fines in 2007-08. How nice it would be to have had that money now, rather than it being squandered on the alleged criminal activities of BA senior managers
BA has had to poach £300m from the pension fund after it set aside £350m for the payment of fines in 2007-08. How nice it would be to have had that money now, rather than it being squandered on the alleged criminal activities of BA senior managers
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Gordon Brown does not want to lose the next election and it might just come good for him.
The chances of GB getting re-elected are slim, but then that is a different matter in its entirety and one not really to be discussed here.
What T's & C's do you think you will be doing well on? When do you see, in your crystal ball, the economy taking off again? Do you, honestly, see us going back to the pre-crash days of relying on business class for more than 40% of our profit? Sorry PiB but times are changing rapidly and the demographics of passengers and ticket prices are going with the times. It seems that some people might well be left behind dreaming of the 'halcyon days' of yore. No?
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Most people would think that after being away for several days the cabin crew would want to get back to their homes/loved ones rather than wanting to stay in a hotel for another 2 nights not so far from home base.
I am not convinced this is what some of cabin crew members really want.
I agree with deecee3 that getting the customer to their destination should be the priority providing of course it is safe and legal to do so.
I am not convinced the new rule of only 1 night at diversion airport will achieve a great deal financially because the pax's will still be left somewhere they probably do not want to be. I fully understand that after a long range sector there may be no alternatives other than getting a replacement crew positioned out to take over but that is probably very difficult or impossible.
If an aircraft diverts to another country close to the UK will they still need 2 nights off instead of just one or the 13.5 hours someone mentioned?
I am not convinced this is what some of cabin crew members really want.
I agree with deecee3 that getting the customer to their destination should be the priority providing of course it is safe and legal to do so.
I am not convinced the new rule of only 1 night at diversion airport will achieve a great deal financially because the pax's will still be left somewhere they probably do not want to be. I fully understand that after a long range sector there may be no alternatives other than getting a replacement crew positioned out to take over but that is probably very difficult or impossible.
If an aircraft diverts to another country close to the UK will they still need 2 nights off instead of just one or the 13.5 hours someone mentioned?
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If, as you say, Carnage, the deadline has passed by, then why has BA not shown its hand?
You know as well as everybody else here that the BA proposals are unfair and quite unworkable. So, BA issue new contracts to all the Cabin Crew, all the Baggage Handlers and all the Ground Staff. What then happens when all these contracts are retuned to Watersplash in mail sacks - shredded and ready for the recyclers?
Sack the lot of us? I don't think so somehow - not if BA is to survive!
You know as well as everybody else here that the BA proposals are unfair and quite unworkable. So, BA issue new contracts to all the Cabin Crew, all the Baggage Handlers and all the Ground Staff. What then happens when all these contracts are retuned to Watersplash in mail sacks - shredded and ready for the recyclers?
Sack the lot of us? I don't think so somehow - not if BA is to survive!
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RyanAir has had a 42% drop in its fuel prices in the first quarter, that is the only reason it has made a profit.
How much has BA's fuel lbill dropped after it rose by 49% in the last financial year? Nowhere near 42%. That is the only reason we made that £90m loss Carnage.
How much has BA's fuel lbill dropped after it rose by 49% in the last financial year? Nowhere near 42%. That is the only reason we made that £90m loss Carnage.
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BA has had to poach £300m from the pension fund after it set aside £350m for the payment of fines in 2007-08. How nice it would be to have had that money now, rather than it being squandered on the alleged criminal activities of BA senior managers
Business is a gamble, some things pay off some things don't. What dictates the state, current and future, of any business is the bottom line and, at the moment, the BA bottom line is, at least, stable due to expeditious financial handling of the companies accounts and backing from the major investors .
Sorting out fluctuating, militant and overbearing unions has to be a priority.