British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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These legal conversations are always raised at every threat of IA, and yes many are aware of the legalities of a strike. However apart from the actual cost of a strike rumoured to be in excess of £40M/day, its the loss of faith (= bookings) from our regular fliers in the company which takes a long time to win back which has a far heavier cost. Also increased interest of late by BA's larger investors will also bring pressure on WW to come to an agreement.
There may well be many who do not want to go on strike but the uncertainty of their numbers, plus the many who just give up and go sick to avoid all the confrontation, will be enough to stop all schedules on the day, or days.
BA know this.....the Unions know this....so both parties ARE keen to come to an agreement. Willie thinks it will be the end of this week!
Lets hope so.
There may well be many who do not want to go on strike but the uncertainty of their numbers, plus the many who just give up and go sick to avoid all the confrontation, will be enough to stop all schedules on the day, or days.
BA know this.....the Unions know this....so both parties ARE keen to come to an agreement. Willie thinks it will be the end of this week!
Lets hope so.
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Also increased interest of late by BA's larger investors will also bring pressure on WW to come to an agreement.
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I've posted it before, but you won't be able to avoid the strike simply by going sick. You'll be asked to confirm your availability to work on the days in question. If you do not respond positively you will be considered to be on strike. If you go sick it will be pattern absence and you can be dismissed under EG300. You will not be paid for any strike days. Crew who do report will be used to fly empty aircraft around the network in order to maintain the schedules. Crew downroute will be required to work back to London as normal.
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Carnage, what a load of hypothetical nonsense. Why are you even discussing the possibility of a strike? Why don't you keep this information for your own dispute with BA? But then Walsh knows that BA pilots will never strike. He understands pilots, obviously.
There will not be a strike at BA as sooner or later, the reality of the situation will sink in. BA cabin crew are not going to roll over without a fight. To subject BA's customers to such a situation, when the airline could already have saved £40m from the proposals BASSA gave Walsh months ago, shows that this is not about money. It would be helpful to negotiatons if BA's negotiators had the authority to make a decision.
Let Mr Walsh and his negotiating team stare into the abyss of what a dispute will mean. To start with there is no way all the passengers could be dispersed from T5. Our flights are running full right through till Christmas and beyond, in spite of Walsh talking the business down. The BCN evacuation had a full load, the heavy landing by a 744 in MIA was full of passengers. Walsh may have got away with frightening the staff of Aer Lingus with his rhetoric about the state of the business in the wake of 9/11, then the company went on to make its biggest ever profit in 2003/04.
As the Paddy Power betting is demonstrating, BA's next CEO is being lined up already.
There will not be a strike at BA as sooner or later, the reality of the situation will sink in. BA cabin crew are not going to roll over without a fight. To subject BA's customers to such a situation, when the airline could already have saved £40m from the proposals BASSA gave Walsh months ago, shows that this is not about money. It would be helpful to negotiatons if BA's negotiators had the authority to make a decision.
Let Mr Walsh and his negotiating team stare into the abyss of what a dispute will mean. To start with there is no way all the passengers could be dispersed from T5. Our flights are running full right through till Christmas and beyond, in spite of Walsh talking the business down. The BCN evacuation had a full load, the heavy landing by a 744 in MIA was full of passengers. Walsh may have got away with frightening the staff of Aer Lingus with his rhetoric about the state of the business in the wake of 9/11, then the company went on to make its biggest ever profit in 2003/04.
As the Paddy Power betting is demonstrating, BA's next CEO is being lined up already.
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Dream oooooon, dream awayyyy 
PS. This really brings out the worst in people. Somehow that message reminded me of Milli Vanilli, another group of people who tried to defy reality to make up for their lack of skills...
PS. This really brings out the worst in people. Somehow that message reminded me of Milli Vanilli, another group of people who tried to defy reality to make up for their lack of skills...
Last edited by Dutchjock; 4th Aug 2009 at 12:16.
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I'm not going to be drawn into your trap of changing the subject to pilots. This is about your deal. I note with interest your subtle change of tone, from "We WILL strike" to "There will no be a strike". Is that the line coming direct from BASSA HQ? That you should prepare the troops for capitulation like last time? I'm afraid that saving the airline £40M from the proposals you offered 'months' ago (more like a couple of days before the 30 June deadline) is hardly generous in the context of the £150M you are required to save.
Perhaps you are starting to see the light? Maybe you have started to realise the rock solid support you are claiming for the cause is actually somewhat weak and sandy? Perhaps you've finally realised that Walsh already has stared into the abyss. He's stared into it countless times before. He's been into it, and come up smelling of roses. You haven't. BASSA haven't. If dispersing a terminal full of passengers is the worst of his worries I imagine he can afford to sleep soundly - right through those meetings with BASSA (oh, I forgot he doesn't waste time speaking directly to the cabin crew). The flights are full, but only of low yield passengers. It'll cost less than the £150M he's going to wring from you to take care of them, then he'll have an extra £150M each and every year thereafter to play with. If he achieves that the shareholders will more than forgive him; they'll probably allow him to keep a little slice of those savings as a nice bonus to himself!
Remember, Teacher is coming and he's got his cane out. You naughty boys and girls in BASSA had better start stuffing books down the back of your pants because you're about to get a thrashing that will teach you some respect for authority!!!!
Perhaps you are starting to see the light? Maybe you have started to realise the rock solid support you are claiming for the cause is actually somewhat weak and sandy? Perhaps you've finally realised that Walsh already has stared into the abyss. He's stared into it countless times before. He's been into it, and come up smelling of roses. You haven't. BASSA haven't. If dispersing a terminal full of passengers is the worst of his worries I imagine he can afford to sleep soundly - right through those meetings with BASSA (oh, I forgot he doesn't waste time speaking directly to the cabin crew). The flights are full, but only of low yield passengers. It'll cost less than the £150M he's going to wring from you to take care of them, then he'll have an extra £150M each and every year thereafter to play with. If he achieves that the shareholders will more than forgive him; they'll probably allow him to keep a little slice of those savings as a nice bonus to himself!
Remember, Teacher is coming and he's got his cane out. You naughty boys and girls in BASSA had better start stuffing books down the back of your pants because you're about to get a thrashing that will teach you some respect for authority!!!!
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Full flights don't mean good yields. Look at the average pax list, they are full of unvoluntary upgrades. Very few people are paying full fare.
And I think you're "WW is about to go" has been well and truly put to bed at the AGM
As I said before, dream on
And I think you're "WW is about to go" has been well and truly put to bed at the AGM
As I said before, dream on
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No need for psychoanalysis, tea-leaf reading or clairvoyancy, just a need to debate "British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations ". I'm just interested to see where this is going, without the thread creep.
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The pilots' deal is only null and void if they choose it to be so. I know the cabin crew are desperate to find some way to derail the pilots agreement so they can feel they've got one up on the 'flight deck' but you can't. The only people who'll derail it are pilots, and for pilots' benefit.
Whilst were talking about safety, people choose BA because they assume (like you) safety is a given. They'll tolerate lousy cabin service and surly cabin crew. They won't tolerate plane wrecks.
Whilst were talking about safety, people choose BA because they assume (like you) safety is a given. They'll tolerate lousy cabin service and surly cabin crew. They won't tolerate plane wrecks.
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Poof in Boots said, Of course you have a vested interest that we accept Walsh's proposals, otherwise your agreement is null and void
Why do they care, if you don't come to an agreement the pilots deal is null and void, so they don't get a paycut, your comment makes no sense except pilot bashing again.
As far as I can see Willy set them a savings amount, they entered in to adult and sensible discussions, before the deadline date and agreed what was required.
Not really a difficult concept to grasp is it, a deadline means just that, hence BA didnt turn up to the meeting that you all did with sky news in tow the day AFTER the aforementioned deadline.
Why do they care, if you don't come to an agreement the pilots deal is null and void, so they don't get a paycut, your comment makes no sense except pilot bashing again.
As far as I can see Willy set them a savings amount, they entered in to adult and sensible discussions, before the deadline date and agreed what was required.
Not really a difficult concept to grasp is it, a deadline means just that, hence BA didnt turn up to the meeting that you all did with sky news in tow the day AFTER the aforementioned deadline.
the lunatic fringe
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aaah PiB is back.
The level of debate and discussion has taken a nose dive. It was looking fairly adult for a while.
I am sure a psychiatrist would read a lot into a frustrated public school education, probably in a school for rich thick kids, with being caned by a Prefect now seen as a 'fringe benefit'.
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Very funny Jazzy, but predictable tripe....like what was on the floor.
If BA's management have the time to put out rubbish like this, no wonder so many mistakes have been made in the running of the airline.
How nice it would be to have the £350m that BA set aside in 2007-08 to pay fines, rather than having to poach the money from the pension scheme today. At that time it seemed the company was awash with cash. How quickly fortunes can change with just a bad bet on fuel prices.
That is the scale of mismanagement in BA.
If BA's management have the time to put out rubbish like this, no wonder so many mistakes have been made in the running of the airline.
How nice it would be to have the £350m that BA set aside in 2007-08 to pay fines, rather than having to poach the money from the pension scheme today. At that time it seemed the company was awash with cash. How quickly fortunes can change with just a bad bet on fuel prices.
That is the scale of mismanagement in BA.
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Poof In Boots wrote;
That is rubbish. 
I know several staff who work in Capacity and Revenue Mgmt and your statement is untrue, just like most of BASSA's use of figures and spin. Some are full, yes - but most are not. Those that are full are only full down the back at certain times of the year. If BA pulled flights you can bet the pax would be dispersed because they'd have to be. It's one thing trying to disperse 'on the day' its another dispersing a week ahead.
Come on PiB, you embarrasing yourself in front of intelligent and industry savvy readers.
Our flights are running full right through till Christmas and beyond, in spite of Walsh talking the business down.
I know several staff who work in Capacity and Revenue Mgmt and your statement is untrue, just like most of BASSA's use of figures and spin. Some are full, yes - but most are not. Those that are full are only full down the back at certain times of the year. If BA pulled flights you can bet the pax would be dispersed because they'd have to be. It's one thing trying to disperse 'on the day' its another dispersing a week ahead.Come on PiB, you embarrasing yourself in front of intelligent and industry savvy readers.
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Well I always fly full flights. If we are really in such a terrible state why oh why did they not just accept our offeR?? and part time isn't being offered quick enough either. Offering over time on Eurofleet whilst the odd one might be working for free.
BASSA 100%
BASSA 100%
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If we are really in such a terrible state why oh why did they not just accept our offeR??
PiB, as always you call up the same old scenarios of price fixing which has been covered time and time and time again. Please, try and dust off some other rhetoric to regal us with.
W2P (Comprehensively dragged up)
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Well if your flights are full then that must directly translate to every flight in the company then.
BASSAs offer wasn't accepted because it wasn't nearly enough. You will oay the full price, not just a portion of it. They don't need to offer part time if compulsory redundancies are in the pipeline. No deal = 2000 P45s.
BASSAs offer wasn't accepted because it wasn't nearly enough. You will oay the full price, not just a portion of it. They don't need to offer part time if compulsory redundancies are in the pipeline. No deal = 2000 P45s.
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which is why we are not giving up with a good fight.Want more out us? Keep trying.
I am not greedy. I work hard and deserve every penny. I am on the new contract and hardly earning a mint and I deserve it fairly.
I am not greedy. I work hard and deserve every penny. I am on the new contract and hardly earning a mint and I deserve it fairly.