British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
Memory Lane
I took part in a Civil Service strike in 1979. We got an extra 0.5% and many extra job cuts. A lot of those were people who were not formally made redundant from the Civil Service but decanted into "Agencies" and then made redundant on statutory minimum terms (no VR for them).
Compared with where BASSA are coming from now we were in a much stronger position. Make of that what you will.
Compared with where BASSA are coming from now we were in a much stronger position. Make of that what you will.
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All BA cabin crew wishing to come to work, please don't be scared, you are not alone. If you need support or help, feel free to PM me and I'll do my best for you. Like Clarified and Highflyer, I'll put on my uniform and do my very best for our passengers.
If anyone else needs to volunteer to come to work if you have no rostered duties over the strike period, click on the ESS page and go to my opportunities, you'll be able to register your intention as I did last night at midnight.
Tomkins, my union subscription is now better off with the NSPCC.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my own views and not of my employer's.
If anyone else needs to volunteer to come to work if you have no rostered duties over the strike period, click on the ESS page and go to my opportunities, you'll be able to register your intention as I did last night at midnight.
Tomkins, my union subscription is now better off with the NSPCC.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my own views and not of my employer's.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 15th Dec 2009 at 19:25.
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Tiramisu and Tomkins, I'm with you. Just resigned from the union so I can stick my name down to work over Christmas. I voted no. I fail to see what will be achieved by this strike other than misery for customers, staff and the future for us all. Some other form of industrial action could have been used than this. It's totally disproportionate action.
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I am so proud of my colleagues. well done.. and my union.
Nice Christmas present Unite, I bet Tony Woodly and the Unite head office team will be sharing the pain over Christmas won't he? Keep paying the subscriptions whilst on strike, don't forget that Tony has a big wage to get through and large expenses to cover, certainly £30 a day won't be enough.
Lemmings.
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Watersidewonker, Flying Chick, et all,
Be careful what you wish for, even Ryanair may not have a job for you.
Good luck, because you really need it.
Destroy BA and you'll destroy yourselves.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my own views and not of my employer's
Be careful what you wish for, even Ryanair may not have a job for you.
Good luck, because you really need it.
Destroy BA and you'll destroy yourselves.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my own views and not of my employer's
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I have also volunteered to work. Anytime, anywhere. I feel ashamed at our "colleagues" and what the union is doing to us all.
I send my most sincere apologies to our customers and their disappointment. I'm crossing my fingers for an injunction tomorrow. I've been amazed lately of how few cc actually know what the word injunction means. Some claim they'll just do another ballot....
Gg
I send my most sincere apologies to our customers and their disappointment. I'm crossing my fingers for an injunction tomorrow. I've been amazed lately of how few cc actually know what the word injunction means. Some claim they'll just do another ballot....
Gg
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Golden Ticket,
Well done! There are so many of us here coming to work, I'm delighted!
Fincastle,
Thank you, only doing what we get paid to do. Still keeping my fingers crossed for you and our other passengers who have chosen to travel with us. We'll do our best not to let you down.
Well done! There are so many of us here coming to work, I'm delighted!
Fincastle,
Thank you, only doing what we get paid to do. Still keeping my fingers crossed for you and our other passengers who have chosen to travel with us. We'll do our best not to let you down.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 15th Dec 2009 at 20:35.
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WatersideWonker
Your naivety startles even me and I've been reading your prattle for months on this thread!
If BASSA lose and the ballot is declared illegal thus the IA is declared illegal then I think Unite will have a few more pressing matters on its agenda than running another useless ballot for BASSA 'until your fight has been won'.
If BASSA lose then BA will claim full damages from Unite/BASSA for disruption, loss of revenue and loss of projected revenue. Add to that corporate image damage and forward bookings losses and you are looking at one massive bill.
So, instead of your usual tub thumping exercise I suggest you hope that BASSA win because, if they don't, BASSA will cease to exist except in memories.
Personally, here's hoping for a flash of common sense and an injunction preventing BASSA from destroying a good company.
This is a fine game of chess next move 2pm tomorrow if Bassa lose then another ballot with even more than 92.49% with or without VR people we shall press on until our fight has been won.
If BASSA lose and the ballot is declared illegal thus the IA is declared illegal then I think Unite will have a few more pressing matters on its agenda than running another useless ballot for BASSA 'until your fight has been won'.
If BASSA lose then BA will claim full damages from Unite/BASSA for disruption, loss of revenue and loss of projected revenue. Add to that corporate image damage and forward bookings losses and you are looking at one massive bill.
So, instead of your usual tub thumping exercise I suggest you hope that BASSA win because, if they don't, BASSA will cease to exist except in memories.
Personally, here's hoping for a flash of common sense and an injunction preventing BASSA from destroying a good company.
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Tiramisu.
Why do you not start a following on crew forum? It may have more validation.
For me the chances of the posters actually being BA cabin crew would be higher.
Just an idea it would help you if you are serious.
Why do you not start a following on crew forum? It may have more validation.
For me the chances of the posters actually being BA cabin crew would be higher.
Just an idea it would help you if you are serious.
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A poorly considered call
WatersideWonker wrote:
We are at the end of 2009; the "winter of discontent" was 35 years ago. Now - as was the case in 1974 - the world travelling public will lose any sympathy it might have possibly had for the BASSA cause, given that the union has chosen the most emotive time of the year to disrupt all BA's services. The world's communications media are reminding everybody that "half a million Christmases will be ruined".
The damage and the fallout from this benighted venture will last for years to come, and the company's frustrated and angry thwarted passengers will not forgive or forget the trouble BASSA will have put them through. They will vow never to fly with British Airways again, and who will be able to blame them.
If the strike does go ahead, BA may well have to cease trading. Will BASSA then find commensurate jobs for its unemployed members if that happens?
Somehow I think not.
But one group will always find employment - your union's paid employees and organisers. Your membership fees will have taken care of that. It is them who will continue to fly Club or First, while former BA CC will be queueing outside the dole offices.
Just think what a Pandora's box you have opened. It's still not to late to close it again.
"So on we go to the High Court Willie's getting to the point the public will turn against him when the public hear how all along he has wanted this fight now the gloves are off lets see who is left standing. Well two visits to the High Court not bad for a dispute which is yet to start lets hope Bassa win and the Wee man ends up with egg on his face. This is a fine game of chess next move 2pm tomorrow if Bassa lose then another ballot with even more than 92.49% with or without VR people we shall press on until our fight has been won.
"
While I totally agree that everyone has a legal right to go on strike, I think that the WatersideWonker may just find that his (or her) gung-ho comments will come back to bite him (or her) in the backside."We are at the end of 2009; the "winter of discontent" was 35 years ago. Now - as was the case in 1974 - the world travelling public will lose any sympathy it might have possibly had for the BASSA cause, given that the union has chosen the most emotive time of the year to disrupt all BA's services. The world's communications media are reminding everybody that "half a million Christmases will be ruined".
The damage and the fallout from this benighted venture will last for years to come, and the company's frustrated and angry thwarted passengers will not forgive or forget the trouble BASSA will have put them through. They will vow never to fly with British Airways again, and who will be able to blame them.
If the strike does go ahead, BA may well have to cease trading. Will BASSA then find commensurate jobs for its unemployed members if that happens?
Somehow I think not.
But one group will always find employment - your union's paid employees and organisers. Your membership fees will have taken care of that. It is them who will continue to fly Club or First, while former BA CC will be queueing outside the dole offices.
Just think what a Pandora's box you have opened. It's still not to late to close it again.
).
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Hello Watersidewonker you said
So on we go to the High Court Willie's getting to the point the public will turn against him when the public hear how all along he has wanted this fight now the gloves are off lets see who is left standing. Well two visits to the High Court not bad for a dispute which is yet to start lets hope Bassa win and the Wee man ends up with egg on his face. This is a fine game of chess next move 2pm tomorrow if Bassa lose then another ballot with even more than 92.49% with or without VR people we shall press on until our fight has been won.
In my opnion, you are pressing the self destruct button.
As for chess, could you tell me who has the most options/moves if action starts?
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Originally posted by biteme
Tiramisu.
Why do you not start a following on crew forum? It may have more validation.
For me the chances of the posters actually being BA cabin crew would be higher.
Just an idea it would help you if you are serious.
Tiramisu.
Why do you not start a following on crew forum? It may have more validation.
For me the chances of the posters actually being BA cabin crew would be higher.
Just an idea it would help you if you are serious.
Have you ever been on Crew Forum? Sorry if you have you wouldn't be asking me to post there.
PPrune is the only forum where you can reasonably debate with intellingent adults.
I've only been on Crew Forum once, and the obscene language and juvenile posts totally put me off. If you don't agree with posters who are anti-BA, you are shot down in flames.
There are more BA crew here than we know, who read the posts and I have to say that it's gathering momentum.
As for being serious, BA cabin crew are going to strike for 12 days!
If that isn't serious, I don't know what is. Our jobs may never be the same again!
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Evening all - just back in!
Well! Nobody expected that did they? Some on here where saying they wouldn’t even get a majority - that one was shot down in flames wasn’t it?
As for the 12 days - well I must admit that too came as a shocker. One can only presume that Unite see this as the last stand, just as Walsh himself is refusing to back down - this could well be the last stand for both parties!
As those who have read this thread over the last few weeks know, I could see no point in striking over Christmas, however the decision has been made and we now have to deal with the aftermath.
From a company point of view however Walsh must feel very let down by his Head of IFCE - throughout this dispute it has been Mr Francis leading the imposition/negotiation and from the many emails and communications he sent out over the last few months he seemed certain that the Cabin Crew would not strike - in fact one of the alleged quotes was “they haven’t the heart for it”. Well he seems to have got that wrong (at least in the ballot).
There is quite clearly something amiss when 92.5% of the returned vote was in favour of industrial action. It does say very little for the communication and persuasion skills of the ‘leadership’ team. Or did they never really want a settlement? If as they say the impositions this dispute will save BA will bring them £40m in savings - why then didn’t they accept the BASSA proposal which was circa £50m?
The truth lies somewhere inbetween maybe - This now isn’t about the imposition is it? Walsh wants to break the union and their historic agreements and is using this whole situation to try to achieve that. He is either very brave or foolhardy - this is one big throw of the dice - on both sides.
So, where does that now leave us? Much of the damage has already been done - in fact I think the response from BA has actually been pretty poor, Walsh looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights in one interview I saw - BA now clearly pinning their hopes on trying to obtain a court injunction to prevent the action taking place. Will that be granted? I would be surprised, due to the fact that even if any people received ballot papers the majority was so much in favour it would not have altered the result
As for the strike itself, if the injunction is not granted - I have no doubt that it will go ahead, I have no doubt that some crew will go to work and I have no doubt that some flights will depart on the day. As for 12 days - I cannot see it lasting the full 12 - something has to give from one or both parties.
This really is a last stand for both sides.
If BASSA lose then they are finished - if Walsh loses then he faces the exit door sooner rather than later.
Well! Nobody expected that did they? Some on here where saying they wouldn’t even get a majority - that one was shot down in flames wasn’t it?
As for the 12 days - well I must admit that too came as a shocker. One can only presume that Unite see this as the last stand, just as Walsh himself is refusing to back down - this could well be the last stand for both parties!
As those who have read this thread over the last few weeks know, I could see no point in striking over Christmas, however the decision has been made and we now have to deal with the aftermath.
From a company point of view however Walsh must feel very let down by his Head of IFCE - throughout this dispute it has been Mr Francis leading the imposition/negotiation and from the many emails and communications he sent out over the last few months he seemed certain that the Cabin Crew would not strike - in fact one of the alleged quotes was “they haven’t the heart for it”. Well he seems to have got that wrong (at least in the ballot).
There is quite clearly something amiss when 92.5% of the returned vote was in favour of industrial action. It does say very little for the communication and persuasion skills of the ‘leadership’ team. Or did they never really want a settlement? If as they say the impositions this dispute will save BA will bring them £40m in savings - why then didn’t they accept the BASSA proposal which was circa £50m?
The truth lies somewhere inbetween maybe - This now isn’t about the imposition is it? Walsh wants to break the union and their historic agreements and is using this whole situation to try to achieve that. He is either very brave or foolhardy - this is one big throw of the dice - on both sides.
So, where does that now leave us? Much of the damage has already been done - in fact I think the response from BA has actually been pretty poor, Walsh looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights in one interview I saw - BA now clearly pinning their hopes on trying to obtain a court injunction to prevent the action taking place. Will that be granted? I would be surprised, due to the fact that even if any people received ballot papers the majority was so much in favour it would not have altered the result
As for the strike itself, if the injunction is not granted - I have no doubt that it will go ahead, I have no doubt that some crew will go to work and I have no doubt that some flights will depart on the day. As for 12 days - I cannot see it lasting the full 12 - something has to give from one or both parties.
This really is a last stand for both sides.
If BASSA lose then they are finished - if Walsh loses then he faces the exit door sooner rather than later.
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I have taken all your comments onboard and hope to see you all around 4-5pm tomorrow for the result i leave you with the words of a song which reminds me of this dispute goodnight.
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next
Will be next, will be next, will be next
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next
And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next
Will be next, will be next, will be next
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How inept are Unite/BASSA
I have never in my several years of membership of this forum felt compelled to post, but today i do. I no longer work for BA but travel on them (or used to) regularly.......
UNITE are completely disingenuous in their arguments and are very much on the road to nowhere.
Just watched Derek Simpson from UNITE being interviewed on BBC, when pressed why they had chosen to choose Christmas to strike, his response was that this was a "BA forced cynical move/forced timing". He claimed they (BA) had been seeking to protect "their valuable business customers" in January and were inflicting this upon normal people by leaving UNITE no options. They (UNITE) had to choose "the slack Jan period for action, which is a wasted window for them, or the busy Christmas period".
Surely if they wanted to maximise commerical impact on BA, by his own admission (inference) - those "valuable business pax" would be better targets in January ??? Completely contradicting himself and tying himself up in knots - they have not a clue ! They just want to hurt as many people as possible.
I always thought TU's were about looking after the ordinary working people/masses against greedy capitalist agendas. Yet he just pretty much said, we'll hit the ordinary people (i.e Christmas travellers) whilst suggesting BA are trying to protect their "valuable" business pax (in Jan) - WTF ? am totally confused with this argument.......talk about hypocrisy !
I applaud those crew on here who say they will work and also hope you are warmly received by pax and colleagues alike, you would certainly get a massive display of gratitude from me.
Having hd first hand experience with BASSA, I know exactly how they behave, so know exactly who I believe.
Willie - please see this thru. I have never known a group of employees so despised at the moment by the British public and everybody I talk to and in the press etc.
I sincerely hope this works out for those decent, hard working BA people, who are prepared to work thru this.
BASSA, good riddance to a bunch of nasty, bullying and totally blinkered group of people.......hope you finally see them off.
UNITE are completely disingenuous in their arguments and are very much on the road to nowhere.
Just watched Derek Simpson from UNITE being interviewed on BBC, when pressed why they had chosen to choose Christmas to strike, his response was that this was a "BA forced cynical move/forced timing". He claimed they (BA) had been seeking to protect "their valuable business customers" in January and were inflicting this upon normal people by leaving UNITE no options. They (UNITE) had to choose "the slack Jan period for action, which is a wasted window for them, or the busy Christmas period".
Surely if they wanted to maximise commerical impact on BA, by his own admission (inference) - those "valuable business pax" would be better targets in January ??? Completely contradicting himself and tying himself up in knots - they have not a clue ! They just want to hurt as many people as possible.
I always thought TU's were about looking after the ordinary working people/masses against greedy capitalist agendas. Yet he just pretty much said, we'll hit the ordinary people (i.e Christmas travellers) whilst suggesting BA are trying to protect their "valuable" business pax (in Jan) - WTF ? am totally confused with this argument.......talk about hypocrisy !
I applaud those crew on here who say they will work and also hope you are warmly received by pax and colleagues alike, you would certainly get a massive display of gratitude from me.
Having hd first hand experience with BASSA, I know exactly how they behave, so know exactly who I believe.
Willie - please see this thru. I have never known a group of employees so despised at the moment by the British public and everybody I talk to and in the press etc.
I sincerely hope this works out for those decent, hard working BA people, who are prepared to work thru this.
BASSA, good riddance to a bunch of nasty, bullying and totally blinkered group of people.......hope you finally see them off.
Last edited by TOM100; 15th Dec 2009 at 20:31.
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A Lurker
If BASSA lose then they are finished
Sorry to see you suffer, because I suspect that you a reasonable person. It's not too late to realise that you're being used by your left wing dinosaurs from the union.
Happy Christmas; at least you'll be at home, unlike the 1000s of pax who you & your colleagues have screwed.
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Well at least you have acknowledged the true nature of where BASSA have led you, A Lurker. But you still seem to think this is about Walsh.
IT ISN'T.
It is about an airline losing money hand over fist, and needing to cut costs. BASSA have decided they do not want to help, and have now made it pretty clear that they do not care for the interests of anyone in the airline except a small clique of senior cc.
Well a hard rain is gonna fall on ALL cc as a result.
BASSA are a disgrace.
IT ISN'T.
It is about an airline losing money hand over fist, and needing to cut costs. BASSA have decided they do not want to help, and have now made it pretty clear that they do not care for the interests of anyone in the airline except a small clique of senior cc.
Well a hard rain is gonna fall on ALL cc as a result.
BASSA are a disgrace.