BA and Project Columbus III
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, considering Lizanne is supposed to be "negotiating", she's spending a hell of a lot of time on Bassa forum and CF.... not saying much at all...
One person has asked (on CF) for the reason why details are not revealed of the latest instalment, but is being ignored by everyone. A very valid question IMO.
Gg
One person has asked (on CF) for the reason why details are not revealed of the latest instalment, but is being ignored by everyone. A very valid question IMO.
Gg
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Reading
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And don't forget GG she also failed to tell us about the productivity changed that the pilots have to make, despite being given the document just after the pilots.
I think Lizanne Malone represents Lizanne Malone......and no-one else.
I think Lizanne Malone represents Lizanne Malone......and no-one else.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've refrained from posting on here since I am one of those pesky pilots or as some crew call us Flight Deck.
Your union is telling you lies and withholding information to suit their needs.
This is not a union that represents you, it represents itself and a core of hardliners who don't give a monkey's about service standards or love for the job.
To be honest I don't even begrudge salaries paid. What I do find outrageous are all the ancillary agreements.
Tear up some archaic working practices (one down payments / 2 local nights off after a div). It will save millions of pounds for no change to your working lives whatsoever.
Get into a dialogue with the company. Do some concessions on pay but make sure that most savings come from those areas that in reality don't impinge on your bottom line that much
Get a proper bidding system in return that removes the cheating from the game as it stands.
Also get an hourly rate that works so you don't lose out any month that you are not on a high box payment sector.
And start trusting the guys who you fly with.
No one wishes you ill health/poor pay/no life. My wife is a WW purser after all.
But start looking at the world around you.
BA cannot afford this. Fight for what is yours when times are good, negotiate when times are bad. It will be forced upon you otherwise and the result will be worse for you all.
It's a darned shame it has come to this. I don't wish for anyone to lose their jobs/home and financial security.
Your union is telling you lies and withholding information to suit their needs.
This is not a union that represents you, it represents itself and a core of hardliners who don't give a monkey's about service standards or love for the job.
To be honest I don't even begrudge salaries paid. What I do find outrageous are all the ancillary agreements.
Tear up some archaic working practices (one down payments / 2 local nights off after a div). It will save millions of pounds for no change to your working lives whatsoever.
Get into a dialogue with the company. Do some concessions on pay but make sure that most savings come from those areas that in reality don't impinge on your bottom line that much
Get a proper bidding system in return that removes the cheating from the game as it stands.
Also get an hourly rate that works so you don't lose out any month that you are not on a high box payment sector.
And start trusting the guys who you fly with.
No one wishes you ill health/poor pay/no life. My wife is a WW purser after all.
But start looking at the world around you.
BA cannot afford this. Fight for what is yours when times are good, negotiate when times are bad. It will be forced upon you otherwise and the result will be worse for you all.
It's a darned shame it has come to this. I don't wish for anyone to lose their jobs/home and financial security.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Out and About
Posts: 268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Andyismyname
Me too. (Must be quite a few of us now!).
Just to remind you (in case you haven't already done so) to also advise BA Pay Services to stop the deduction from your salary.
I have resigned from BASSA.
Just to remind you (in case you haven't already done so) to also advise BA Pay Services to stop the deduction from your salary.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: London
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are people not entitled to different opinions? If you have a different opinion you will be accused of being part of management. Myself, Andy and GlamGirl are apparently stabbing everybody else in the back by every post we make. I am sorry that they feel that way but I am actually willing to make a change to save my job. I would also love to go part-time but I fear that these offers made to us crew will be snatched away from us because they can't come to an agreement with the TU:s.
I will never make a post on CF after having read what they are saying. Why should I? I will be both shoot down and banned.
I will never make a post on CF after having read what they are saying. Why should I? I will be both shoot down and banned.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nuigini,
I have no doubt as well that your name will be "leaked", so your working life would be hell. These people keep talking about being "bullied" by pilots and management, but they can't see how they are bullies themselves.
Gg
I have no doubt as well that your name will be "leaked", so your working life would be hell. These people keep talking about being "bullied" by pilots and management, but they can't see how they are bullies themselves.
Gg
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I live like a gypsy.
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA Supporter
There is an unbelievable amount of bigotry here in this thread and PPRUNE's very own Lord Haw Haw does not know what he is talking about. The countdown to the 30th means nothing, because nothing will be agreed by then.
Walsh is playing brinkmanship and has held back from giving BASSA his impositions, so as to create further pressure on negotiations. It has all been seen before.
The reason BA crew are not posting here is that it is a lost cause dealing with such envy and jealosy from the flight crew. What is the personal motive for such vindictiveness towards BA cabin crew and their union?
Some posts here have clearly no idea BASSA or the Chair of the union is doing or saying. In fact you don't know anything about what is going on between BA and BASSA. Your posts are pure fantasy
If the negotiations fail, the BALPA deal goes too. Walsh has been far too generous with BA pilots, yet he is bullying a mainly female workforce. This looks so bad in the media. So hopefully the BALPA deal will be ripped up and the pilots will have to contribute a fair share towards Willie's "Fight For Survival". I would suggest at least a 5% cut in pay permanently which they could well afford. Pilots need to be paid the market rate, BA can no longer afford to subsidise their extravagant lifestyles. I think most people would agree that £70,000 is quite enough reward for a Captain.
As far as people resigning from BASSA: first of all good riddance to anyone that does not support the union, we don't want you, secondly more than 100 crew have joined the BASSA in the last two weeks. Actually the people here who say they have resigned, actually haven't. So why say you have?
AMICUS/89 membership is less than 700 and there are over 14,000 cabin crew in BA. There are not many people who do not belong to either union
Walsh is playing brinkmanship and has held back from giving BASSA his impositions, so as to create further pressure on negotiations. It has all been seen before.
The reason BA crew are not posting here is that it is a lost cause dealing with such envy and jealosy from the flight crew. What is the personal motive for such vindictiveness towards BA cabin crew and their union?
Some posts here have clearly no idea BASSA or the Chair of the union is doing or saying. In fact you don't know anything about what is going on between BA and BASSA. Your posts are pure fantasy
If the negotiations fail, the BALPA deal goes too. Walsh has been far too generous with BA pilots, yet he is bullying a mainly female workforce. This looks so bad in the media. So hopefully the BALPA deal will be ripped up and the pilots will have to contribute a fair share towards Willie's "Fight For Survival". I would suggest at least a 5% cut in pay permanently which they could well afford. Pilots need to be paid the market rate, BA can no longer afford to subsidise their extravagant lifestyles. I think most people would agree that £70,000 is quite enough reward for a Captain.
As far as people resigning from BASSA: first of all good riddance to anyone that does not support the union, we don't want you, secondly more than 100 crew have joined the BASSA in the last two weeks. Actually the people here who say they have resigned, actually haven't. So why say you have?
AMICUS/89 membership is less than 700 and there are over 14,000 cabin crew in BA. There are not many people who do not belong to either union
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PiB,
You do an amazing impression of an ostrich, you really do.
You have it in for flight crew for whatever reason (as do a lot of cc), and you've obviously got a problem with their pay, considering the difference in job/skill/pressure etc. Also, they are paid market rate, believe it or not.
Some CSD's are paid more than pilots - is that fair? Especially after they forked out £80k or so for their licence.
I know I'll be accused of being management/flight deck floozie or whatever, but I can't take you seriously, I'm afraid, as you're posting such rubbish.
Gg
You do an amazing impression of an ostrich, you really do.
You have it in for flight crew for whatever reason (as do a lot of cc), and you've obviously got a problem with their pay, considering the difference in job/skill/pressure etc. Also, they are paid market rate, believe it or not.
Some CSD's are paid more than pilots - is that fair? Especially after they forked out £80k or so for their licence.
I know I'll be accused of being management/flight deck floozie or whatever, but I can't take you seriously, I'm afraid, as you're posting such rubbish.
Gg
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How can having an outside view on CC t's & c's and then having an opinion based upon them be considered bullying?
Oh, I forgot, some members of the fraternity consider anything that disagrees with their viewpoint bullying!
So, to take such a viewpoint to an extreme, the BASSA negotiating team have failed to reveal that they knew about the deal done by BALPA and then proceeded to claim they knew nothing about it?
They have failed to communicate to their members the depth of problems facing their community along with the possible actions needed to remedy the fact. They have failed to take into account a deadline that could possibly preclude, their members who wish to, taking a voluntary redundancy package.
The are so condescending that they can't be bothered to communicate the companies demands to those very people who are about to be affected by them.
They claim anyone who disagrees with the BASSA stance is idiotic, deluded or bullied? What chance does that give them in negotiations with seasoned BA negotiators?
How long will it be before UNITE has to step in again and give BASSA a spanking and tell them to finally grow up and start representing their membership not just the top 200 who can cherry pick the best paying trips and commute to live wherever they wish in the world.
Over to BASSA then for the answers. Come on Lizanne we know you read this and then get someone to answer by proxy. Constantly BASSA have harped on that this is of no concern except to the Cabin Crew who it affects.
Wrong!
I would suggest that there are 25,000 odd other employees who are currently watching this travesty unfold before them and are wondering if their jobs hang on the actions of some complete idiots in BASSA.
Oh, I forgot, some members of the fraternity consider anything that disagrees with their viewpoint bullying!
So, to take such a viewpoint to an extreme, the BASSA negotiating team have failed to reveal that they knew about the deal done by BALPA and then proceeded to claim they knew nothing about it?
They have failed to communicate to their members the depth of problems facing their community along with the possible actions needed to remedy the fact. They have failed to take into account a deadline that could possibly preclude, their members who wish to, taking a voluntary redundancy package.
The are so condescending that they can't be bothered to communicate the companies demands to those very people who are about to be affected by them.
They claim anyone who disagrees with the BASSA stance is idiotic, deluded or bullied? What chance does that give them in negotiations with seasoned BA negotiators?
How long will it be before UNITE has to step in again and give BASSA a spanking and tell them to finally grow up and start representing their membership not just the top 200 who can cherry pick the best paying trips and commute to live wherever they wish in the world.
Over to BASSA then for the answers. Come on Lizanne we know you read this and then get someone to answer by proxy. Constantly BASSA have harped on that this is of no concern except to the Cabin Crew who it affects.
Wrong!
I would suggest that there are 25,000 odd other employees who are currently watching this travesty unfold before them and are wondering if their jobs hang on the actions of some complete idiots in BASSA.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the negotiations fail, the BALPA deal goes too.
read the small print!
The reason BA crew are not posting here is that it is a lost cause dealing with such envy and jealosy from the flight crew.
Walsh has been far too generous with BA pilots, yet he is bullying a mainly female workforce.
Pilots need to be paid the market rate, BA can no longer afford to subsidise their extravagant lifestyles. I think most people would agree that £70,000 is quite enough reward for a Captain.
£70,000 for a Captain? Less than RYR or Easy for LH responsibility? Perhaps not, that would put a CSD on about £15,000 then.
This discussion is about the CC not pilots, well discussed and our deal stands whatever happens to yours.
Now, where was that jealousy?
Nice one though PiB, at least you had the balls to post your misguided rant.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Somewhere in between
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poof in boots,
Sorry to spoil your little rant, flight crew are actually benchmarked to other airlines, facts can be obtained quite easily. For example an easyjet captain makes more than what you suggest. Surely you would argue you should earn more than easyjet cc, so does that not work for pilots?
The only ones that ar NOT benchmarked and are well above market rate are the more senior BA cc.
So replace Pilots with CC and you would be talking sense
Sorry to spoil your little rant, flight crew are actually benchmarked to other airlines, facts can be obtained quite easily. For example an easyjet captain makes more than what you suggest. Surely you would argue you should earn more than easyjet cc, so does that not work for pilots?
The only ones that ar NOT benchmarked and are well above market rate are the more senior BA cc.
Pilots need to be paid the market rate, BA can no longer afford to subsidise their extravagant lifestyles.
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I live like a gypsy.
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA Supporter
The negotiations are being conducted in private, so there will not be any information relased probably unitl the artificial deadline of the 30th has passed.
BASSA members will know the state of play before the big meeting on the 6th and then we will go from there.
BASSA are negotiating intelligently and we are confident of an elegant solution. Lord Haw Haw and his public schoolboy chums had better hope there is a successful outcome, otherwise it is back to the drawing board for BALPA.
On this forum you are supposed to play the ball, so I cannot pick out any specific individual for criticism. However it is quite worrying how one person in particular here is attacking BASSA in complete ignorance of the facts. The condescending diatribe really shows for all to see, that some pilots have too much time on their hands and need to get out more.
BASSA members will know the state of play before the big meeting on the 6th and then we will go from there.
BASSA are negotiating intelligently and we are confident of an elegant solution. Lord Haw Haw and his public schoolboy chums had better hope there is a successful outcome, otherwise it is back to the drawing board for BALPA.
On this forum you are supposed to play the ball, so I cannot pick out any specific individual for criticism. However it is quite worrying how one person in particular here is attacking BASSA in complete ignorance of the facts. The condescending diatribe really shows for all to see, that some pilots have too much time on their hands and need to get out more.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Between a rock & a hard place.
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
7 Posts
I cannot stay quiet any longer.
Glamgirl. Check your history. LHR crew did not allow the creation of SFG. Nor did LHR/BASSA careless what happened at LGW. 1) LHR crew were not invited to vote on the creation of SFG. 2) BASSA was not opposed to SFG but asked its' members at LGW to vote no whilst a better deal was negotiated. LGW crew voted for the deal they got. If it is worse than LHR it is because they accepted it, nothing to do with LHR crews, nor for that matter the old regional crews. I was based at MAN at the creation of SFG and wasn't given a vote either. So, stop using this outdated mantra as a tool for division or revenge. It isn't accurate and it isn't helpful.
Who here can tell me that BASSA and indeed AMICUS are not negotiating? Is it a fact or hearsay? Quote from a business briefing by a BA manager on 24/06/09.
We have limited scope for cost reductions in IFCE as employment costs take up 99% of our budget
Since February, we have been in talks with the unions, which continue as we speak. There is a communications blackout during this time, which is why we’re not updating you on progress.
Glamgirl. Check your history. LHR crew did not allow the creation of SFG. Nor did LHR/BASSA careless what happened at LGW. 1) LHR crew were not invited to vote on the creation of SFG. 2) BASSA was not opposed to SFG but asked its' members at LGW to vote no whilst a better deal was negotiated. LGW crew voted for the deal they got. If it is worse than LHR it is because they accepted it, nothing to do with LHR crews, nor for that matter the old regional crews. I was based at MAN at the creation of SFG and wasn't given a vote either. So, stop using this outdated mantra as a tool for division or revenge. It isn't accurate and it isn't helpful.
Who here can tell me that BASSA and indeed AMICUS are not negotiating? Is it a fact or hearsay? Quote from a business briefing by a BA manager on 24/06/09.
We have limited scope for cost reductions in IFCE as employment costs take up 99% of our budget
Since February, we have been in talks with the unions, which continue as we speak. There is a communications blackout during this time, which is why we’re not updating you on progress.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PC767,
I've tried to explain this to you plenty of times by now.
The majority of the "yes" vote to Single Fleet was by WWLGW who seen an easy way out of LGW onto WWLHR.
Bassa arranged a max 12.5 hour rostered duty for long haul ex LGW to protect their operation on WWLHR.
Bassa offered the company 9p per hour instead of breakfast down route.
That's just a couple of issues.
However, I haven't brought this up for a long long time, so why do you feel the need to do so now?
All I've been saying here is that something's got to give, and fast. You cannot justify the amount of payments, such as destination payments (to most of those destinations), diversion payment etc. Neither can the 2 local nights after diversion due to disruption be justified, when it leaves thousands of passengers stranded.
My whole issue with this thing is that people don't think for themselves and they don't do any research, but takes Bassa's word for everything. Especially dangerous, considering they're not painting the full picture to you. Do you not want to know why Lizanne is not bothering to tell you what the latest offer is? It would trouble me a great deal if the head of the union, so to speak didn't do this.
Head out of clouds asap please.
Gg
Ps. Do you think it's acceptable to threaten fellow crew with physical violence?
I've tried to explain this to you plenty of times by now.
The majority of the "yes" vote to Single Fleet was by WWLGW who seen an easy way out of LGW onto WWLHR.
Bassa arranged a max 12.5 hour rostered duty for long haul ex LGW to protect their operation on WWLHR.
Bassa offered the company 9p per hour instead of breakfast down route.
That's just a couple of issues.
However, I haven't brought this up for a long long time, so why do you feel the need to do so now?
All I've been saying here is that something's got to give, and fast. You cannot justify the amount of payments, such as destination payments (to most of those destinations), diversion payment etc. Neither can the 2 local nights after diversion due to disruption be justified, when it leaves thousands of passengers stranded.
My whole issue with this thing is that people don't think for themselves and they don't do any research, but takes Bassa's word for everything. Especially dangerous, considering they're not painting the full picture to you. Do you not want to know why Lizanne is not bothering to tell you what the latest offer is? It would trouble me a great deal if the head of the union, so to speak didn't do this.
Head out of clouds asap please.
Gg
Ps. Do you think it's acceptable to threaten fellow crew with physical violence?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I live like a gypsy.
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA Supporter
Gg. Who has threatened you? Where?
Why don't you finish what you are saying?
Are you trying to say that your views are completely at odds with the majority of crew which has caused a reaction?
Why don't you finish what you are saying?
Are you trying to say that your views are completely at odds with the majority of crew which has caused a reaction?
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LGW
Posts: 595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PiB,
I've been threatened on the CF. Not that anyone knows who I am, but that's not the point. It's unacceptable.
I think a lot of crew would agree with me, at least in part, but don't look/post either here or CF. The people on CF are unable to see another point of view and the validity behind it. Therefore shout out the people they don't agree with.
Gg
Ps. Pip, keep guessing, you're far off the mark
I've been threatened on the CF. Not that anyone knows who I am, but that's not the point. It's unacceptable.
I think a lot of crew would agree with me, at least in part, but don't look/post either here or CF. The people on CF are unable to see another point of view and the validity behind it. Therefore shout out the people they don't agree with.
Gg
Ps. Pip, keep guessing, you're far off the mark