Virgin - Crew Discussions II
Join Date: May 2003
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How about reducing basic salary so that it makes up only 60% of total income and substantially increasing trip pay to make up the other 40%? You're then rewarded for what you fly with unnecessary sickness disappearing overnight. Everything pensionable.
Introduce annual increments for CSS and FSM ranks of 2% a year
Allowances are not a part of salary but compensation for meals taken in the hotel. If the average price of lunch from the restaurant menu is only $15 then a lunch allowance at that hotel is only $15.
Introduce annual increments for CSS and FSM ranks of 2% a year
Allowances are not a part of salary but compensation for meals taken in the hotel. If the average price of lunch from the restaurant menu is only $15 then a lunch allowance at that hotel is only $15.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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No vote!
92% voted no according to the texts doing the rounds. 
Shanwick, you make some good points.
Now we have voted no, the union finally have to start talking to us, otherwise we are going to keep going back to a no. I dont know about anyone else, but if we are not willing to stike then we should not even be on the pitch. The CC89 reps are going to have to ensure that the are representing us and not themselves. Whilst I dont agree with some of the tone of recent emails, I think there is something to be said for the union/company relationship and the financial benefits of the reps role. I think we need clarity.
I would vote yes for a substantial increase in pensionable trip pay (£90 -£100 FSM, £80-90 CSS etc). 2% salary increase and no changes to air share/crew compliment. Our service is pretty terrible at the moment and any lose of crew will further impact this. By the way I also think reduction of crew member was a cynical way of reducing crew down payments, something I was surpirised the union did not pick up on.
Lets get behind the union with a strong voice of what we realistically want and with the clear principal that we will strike if the company do not take us seriously. The union have to realise that the people they are negotiating against are getting big bonuses for keeping our pay low, and need to play hard ball rather than go along with what they are being told. I certainly wont be backing the union if they communicate to us in the previous manner of, and hopefully we have seen the back of Brian Boyd!
Shanwick, you make some good points.
Now we have voted no, the union finally have to start talking to us, otherwise we are going to keep going back to a no. I dont know about anyone else, but if we are not willing to stike then we should not even be on the pitch. The CC89 reps are going to have to ensure that the are representing us and not themselves. Whilst I dont agree with some of the tone of recent emails, I think there is something to be said for the union/company relationship and the financial benefits of the reps role. I think we need clarity.
I would vote yes for a substantial increase in pensionable trip pay (£90 -£100 FSM, £80-90 CSS etc). 2% salary increase and no changes to air share/crew compliment. Our service is pretty terrible at the moment and any lose of crew will further impact this. By the way I also think reduction of crew member was a cynical way of reducing crew down payments, something I was surpirised the union did not pick up on.
Lets get behind the union with a strong voice of what we realistically want and with the clear principal that we will strike if the company do not take us seriously. The union have to realise that the people they are negotiating against are getting big bonuses for keeping our pay low, and need to play hard ball rather than go along with what they are being told. I certainly wont be backing the union if they communicate to us in the previous manner of, and hopefully we have seen the back of Brian Boyd!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Saz, you also make some very good points. We have to keep things realistic people and 10-15% is never going to happen. As stated earlier its the conditions that i didnt agree with, and after speaking to alot of crew online they felt the same.. I certainly would be happy with an increase on basic pay, even of 2%, with an substantial increase on trip pay, and allowances. I havent met any crew who prefer this monthly standby, and its causing alot of upset. Morale is lower than ever, but be strong and support the union as much ever!!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Vote
Ditto me. I am happy to see pay go into trip pay rather than this 4.8% and sell the family silver for not much in return. Though it would have to be substantial and pensionable at least £90 for CSS.
I have always been a moderate but go along with now taking a tough stance. I will continue to vote no until the company and union get this right. How they could have tried to sell us reduction in airshare and a crew member is quite beyond me. I think we need much more open commmunictaion from the union even if it means publishing all the minutes, rosters and payments.
Personally feeling down and fed up with everything that has gone on. Not sure our management team are that hot, just seem to be overladen from the top with even more managers and yet crew down, catering, carmen, standby blocks still big issues.
I have always been a moderate but go along with now taking a tough stance. I will continue to vote no until the company and union get this right. How they could have tried to sell us reduction in airshare and a crew member is quite beyond me. I think we need much more open commmunictaion from the union even if it means publishing all the minutes, rosters and payments.
Personally feeling down and fed up with everything that has gone on. Not sure our management team are that hot, just seem to be overladen from the top with even more managers and yet crew down, catering, carmen, standby blocks still big issues.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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I like all the suggestions, shows we are thinking logically - awaiting the official vote count though. The problem with making all monies trip based to eradicate sickness would be when people are genuinely ill, or long term ill - They would be seriously financially impacted - also when on leave.
What about a points style system those with sickness without doctors notes gain points, the higher the points the lower you come in the pecking order for things like leave, bidding for trips, standby/staff travel on top of the criteria which already exist ?
Though again these things all encourage people to fly when not well and pass things on to crew and other pa whe not fit for duty.
Maybe just a sensible basic with no strings - do a complete U turn get rid of monthly standby watch morale increase exponentially - crew sickness drops. If it doesn't increase a points/penalty system for high sickness (not doctor certified). After all no one likes repeat sick offenders it screws everyone.
What about a points style system those with sickness without doctors notes gain points, the higher the points the lower you come in the pecking order for things like leave, bidding for trips, standby/staff travel on top of the criteria which already exist ?
Though again these things all encourage people to fly when not well and pass things on to crew and other pa whe not fit for duty.
Maybe just a sensible basic with no strings - do a complete U turn get rid of monthly standby watch morale increase exponentially - crew sickness drops. If it doesn't increase a points/penalty system for high sickness (not doctor certified). After all no one likes repeat sick offenders it screws everyone.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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When I heard that the union and the company had come to an agreement, I was excited, and glad. Now it seems that we have been sold short. Now that I have seen the offer, I am once again disheartened, and frustrated. This new ballot was also conveniently scheduled to go over the proposed strike period.
Is 10-15% realistic? how much did the flight crew get last time?
One thing I have noticed, is that the standard of new crew is getting lower and lower, and younger and younger. Many of my friends who fly for other airlines, wouldn't even consider coming to VS, because they all know how bad the money is, particularly for juniors. We need to atract more experienced (flying & life). The only way is by offering a good salary package, not just frills like staff travel.
As I type this post, I presume that the ballots are now finished being counted....
I wonder if this forum is read by any of our illustrious leaders?
Is 10-15% realistic? how much did the flight crew get last time?
One thing I have noticed, is that the standard of new crew is getting lower and lower, and younger and younger. Many of my friends who fly for other airlines, wouldn't even consider coming to VS, because they all know how bad the money is, particularly for juniors. We need to atract more experienced (flying & life). The only way is by offering a good salary package, not just frills like staff travel.
As I type this post, I presume that the ballots are now finished being counted....
I wonder if this forum is read by any of our illustrious leaders?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Illustrious leaders?????
That is our problem, our so called leaders are pretty useless. I dont think this will be resolved until we have a change of leadership (Has any one met our director).
We need better pay (Realistic I agree, but not present deal) , better service, better product. Other airlines have left us standing in every respect.
We need to start to communicate to amicus/unite reps but not sure they are listening to us.
That is our problem, our so called leaders are pretty useless. I dont think this will be resolved until we have a change of leadership (Has any one met our director).
We need better pay (Realistic I agree, but not present deal) , better service, better product. Other airlines have left us standing in every respect.
We need to start to communicate to amicus/unite reps but not sure they are listening to us.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The problem we have is that you cant discriminate against people who are sick, obviously if there is a pattern ie off every sat night , then the company will look at it, but legally you cant give someone better trips, more entitlement to requests etc because they havent been off sick ! The flight crew did get a substantial increase but once again we need to be realistic. I heard the other day the age for recruitment has dropped to 18, which i think is terrible, we need older crew with more life experience surely. We seem as a company to be going backwards in everything we do at the mo, and its at such a crucial time with all these low cost airlines offering london to jfk for 89.00 . The company as its got bigger is falling apart and linda "the destroyer " moir seems to be right in the middle of it !!!!!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Statement released by Brian Boyd on MyAmicus:
92% rejected the offer
70.5% of all ballot papers dispatched returned
He goes on to say he has informed the company who may wish to revisit thier offer, but he will be issuing ballot papers for industrial action.
Too be honest even a 4.8% increase without the 'add ons' does not reflect what we are worth.
We should be getting a pay INCREASE whereas 4.8% is only inflation.
We have worked VERY hard to get to this point.
Lets ask for MORE
Like I said 10%
Pilots got 10% PER YEAR FOR THREE YEARS!!!!!!
If they dont want to give it to us
Let them lose even more when we go on strike!!!
92% rejected the offer
70.5% of all ballot papers dispatched returned
He goes on to say he has informed the company who may wish to revisit thier offer, but he will be issuing ballot papers for industrial action.
Too be honest even a 4.8% increase without the 'add ons' does not reflect what we are worth.
We should be getting a pay INCREASE whereas 4.8% is only inflation.
We have worked VERY hard to get to this point.
Lets ask for MORE
Like I said 10%
Pilots got 10% PER YEAR FOR THREE YEARS!!!!!!
If they dont want to give it to us
Let them lose even more when we go on strike!!!
Join Date: Jul 2006
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many thanks
hey guys and girls,
think this is probably the best place to post this-
just wanted to say many thanks to the VS crew who I flew with as an SLF out of DXB on 15th June.
I had just come off working a LOS trip 2 hours before and hadn't slept or eaten for 27 hours....
the crew were fantastic, upgraded me, brought extra blankets, pillows, ice cream.... cannot thank enough, allowed me to fall asleep in a heap and wake up smiling in LHR.
Thank you so much guys, and if you're ever on an EK flight, the extra pillows are yours! x
think this is probably the best place to post this-
just wanted to say many thanks to the VS crew who I flew with as an SLF out of DXB on 15th June.
I had just come off working a LOS trip 2 hours before and hadn't slept or eaten for 27 hours....
the crew were fantastic, upgraded me, brought extra blankets, pillows, ice cream.... cannot thank enough, allowed me to fall asleep in a heap and wake up smiling in LHR.
Thank you so much guys, and if you're ever on an EK flight, the extra pillows are yours! x
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Pilots got 10% PER YEAR FOR THREE YEARS!!!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Last thread makes several good points, especially holding out.
For the first time we have the chance to get what we are worth. We have to vote Yes to strike action and ensure we dont blink. The company cannot afford for us to strike and they will find money to ensure their crew keep the operation running. The last flight deck pay negotiation showed this if nothing else.
This is now brinkmanship
For the first time we have the chance to get what we are worth. We have to vote Yes to strike action and ensure we dont blink. The company cannot afford for us to strike and they will find money to ensure their crew keep the operation running. The last flight deck pay negotiation showed this if nothing else.
This is now brinkmanship
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Spot on. We cannot blink now, this is as you say brinkmanship and we must communicate what we want in the very clearest terms by taking seriously our next step . Looks like Linda Moir has seriously overplayed her hand and we must keep focus and ensure the vote for a strike is again in the 90%.
Good on our pilot friend for the support. There will be many who now worry about their jobs and try to dissuade us.
Good on our pilot friend for the support. There will be many who now worry about their jobs and try to dissuade us.
, and secondly if it comes to it I'll see you on the picket line.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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sazdv1,
There are plently of employee groups essential to keeping operations running.
My mate operates the "honeycart"--without him the operation would fast grind to a halt!
There are plently of employee groups essential to keeping operations running.
My mate operates the "honeycart"--without him the operation would fast grind to a halt!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Many thanks to all the non-crew on here who are offering us their support!
Sazdv1, a bit of an embarrassing comment in my opinion! Yes without us there would be no flights, but same goes for the flight deck, the engineers, the baggage handlers, the gate staff, the reservations staff, the aircraft cleaners, the caterers, the tug drivers, the check in staff, the security agents, the operations staff, the crewing staff...
do you see where I'm going with this...?
Sazdv1, a bit of an embarrassing comment in my opinion! Yes without us there would be no flights, but same goes for the flight deck, the engineers, the baggage handlers, the gate staff, the reservations staff, the aircraft cleaners, the caterers, the tug drivers, the check in staff, the security agents, the operations staff, the crewing staff...
do you see where I'm going with this...?
Join Date: Apr 2005
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We are all a team, and it is terrible that our colleagues in other departments aren't unionised. I don't understand why that is. It takes a great many number of people who are essential to the organisation, for the succesfull running of the airline.
We Serve, Sanitize, Save, Sacrifice, Sell, Socialize! We Strike!
We Serve, Sanitize, Save, Sacrifice, Sell, Socialize! We Strike!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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We must stand strong and so far it seems to be working. The posting by Lyell on The Verb Online (3 weeks ago) suggested that it was case closed and everyone was happy. Oh how they underestimated us and that makes us so much stronger.
I'm not sure about 10-15%, thats an awful lot. If truth be known I would have accepted the last pay deal had it not been for airshare ("you will get it monthly in your salary") errrr, isnt that my pay increase? and the SBY and loss of crew member.
Its quite embarrassing what a Junior earns. Other airlines may have similar basics but they make it up in other ways. Why are we the only airline that stands out for not doing this?
I'm not sure about 10-15%, thats an awful lot. If truth be known I would have accepted the last pay deal had it not been for airshare ("you will get it monthly in your salary") errrr, isnt that my pay increase? and the SBY and loss of crew member.
Its quite embarrassing what a Junior earns. Other airlines may have similar basics but they make it up in other ways. Why are we the only airline that stands out for not doing this?