QF LHR Base (merged)

[LOTflyer]

Hi sky fellows!,

Despite the hot atmosphere about QF LHR base is there any chance to get some info about LHR crews number of days off, bidding system, number of crew on every flight,ID tickets and number of trips a monts etc. I would really love to know how does your working environment look like?Please don't kill me for just asking. Greets from sunny Poland.

LOTflyer

[Galley Guru]

Jet Lagger,

In response to your question. We had sherpas from the inception of the base. And they were a useful resource for those who were new to Bfirst. Do you recall when the Skybed was launched and the new Business class service commenced where we began to sauce and garnish entree's in the cabin, not massive changes. Remember there were sherpas on every flight for almost the entire bid period across most of the long haul network.

The sherpas where in London for 4 weeks. Now the next wave a ex-aus crew come on line along with the new recruits who have been trained so perhaps you are right that sherpas will be back for this period of time. Watch this space they may be bought back for the 3rd wave too, and so what if they are. Im sure they will again be a great resource to those crew who are new in the role.

You talk of the waste in money to do this (great expense in your words)... im sure the savings of having the base in london will more than offset the cost of a having a few sherpas.

[flapsforty]

For the benefit of this non-Aussie reader; what do you guys mean with this 'sherpa' business? Would they be something similar to the 'sweepers' we used to employ to try and keep the toilets clean between Karachi and Singapore, or..... ...
Thanks.

[surfside6]

Sherpas

"Sherpas" are essentially onboard trainers.They are Cabin Crew(with experience)who are onboard to bring the service standard up to speed.They are there because the experience level and training are poor.They are not hands on but rather a guide(hence the name Sherpa)for the operating crew as far as procedures and standards are concerned.
A better name would be trouble shooters

[q--tee]

oh jetlagger, you funny little thing ....

on another thread youre saying that we as qantas group cabin crew should be stickin together against the 'evil-that-is-qantas-management' .... yet on this one you are out and out baggin qantas cabin crew who work for a subsidiary of QF in the UK .... reminder the thai crew dont work for QF or a subdisiary .... yet you seem to hold them in much higher esteem than those of us who are actually QF crew working for a wholly owned subsidiary, and most of us just on leave without pay from the 'mothership' ... the first locally based crew started yesterday, so all your 'digs' so far are at mainline QF crew who are on leave without pay!

I could answer everything you have said about the LHR crew with actual facts, but cant be bothered .... it means nothing ...

But I am curious ....

life is personal reality ...

you (obiously) hate the company and management so much, it seems to be an obsession with you ... why on earth would you want to work for a company that you hate so much?

It seriously intrigues me .... if I hated the people/ company I was working for so much, I wouldnt be working for them .... simple as that. So what is the issue? you cant stand the company, why bother staying? your whinging wont change anything, the path is well and truly set with Qantas ( whether I agree with it or not - and a lot I actually dont!) if you hate it so much why stay?

You will find the majority of crew who came over here arent so 'affected' by what moves the company make ... we understand the simple employment philosophy .... they give us money for performing certain tasks, we do those tasks ... we get money .... its as simple as that.... you seriously need to get a life luv



Oh and as a postscipt .... I am having a ball over here, the crew are great, the most enthusiastic I have seen for tens of years .... yes luv, maybe the procedures arent down pat yet ... a lot of crew are new to their positions ...but the enthusiasm and friendliness are second to none .... and the Thai crew are either lying to you or me ...dont really care which ... to me they have said they love flying with us ...

oh and still havent got a block past 198 hrs ... if the 240 comes then so be it ... but I havent seen it as yet ... but I happily signed up for those hours so wont complain if they arrive ...
the benefit for me is livin in a place I could have never worked in before, and get my job when i get home ..... I am as happy as a piggy in poo

[Butterfield8]

QTee

You are not in LHR but rather in Sydney and operate on this forum as part of the spin team.So give us all a break!!!

[jettlager]

Morning qtee.
It is morning in Sydney isn't it???

My "beef" is not with QF but rather those who are running it into the ground.
Your response to these issues is EXACTLY the standard QF management response- "if you dont like it leave".
I wonder why...........?

You seem confused by my attitute and feelings toward QF management............?

Have we forgotten the "Hewitt" survey?

For those who dont know. QF has reciently spent millions tasking an outside organisation to measure the level of "engagement" that staff have with the business.
They report that they had NEVER seen a result like QF's in their whole 20 year history.

Engagement levels "critical" with 78% of the QF workforce surveyed completely "disengaged."
My attitude as measured by "Hewitt" [at great expense] is the norm at QF and you my friend KNOW IT.

They have reported at board level that if QF think they are doing well now with $1 billion AUD record profits, the results achievable with an engaged workforce would be.................unlimited.

The conditions of ALL OPERATIONAL employees are under attack as never before and for Longhaul crew the LHR base is just one example.

The executive level in this company pay themselves MASSIVE bonuses for taking money out of OUR pockets whilst crying poor mouth at every opportunity.
The hypocracy sickens those of us whose contributions are treated with such CONTEMPT.

Do QF management have any creative strategy for business success beyond slashing conditions from it's employees.............?

No.

Pilots, Cabin Crew, Cleaners, Engineers, Groundstaff, Catering, Ramp, Baggage Handlers etc, etc are ALL under attack and yet these groups are the ones largely responsible for OUR success.

Your argument shows you as nothing more than a lapdog to these executive filth. Do they flick you scraps from their table as thanks? No? Happy with a pathetic little tummy rub are you?

More RECORD profits this year qtee??

Not if we were performing network wide, to the level of the LHR base.

The cat is well and truly out of the bag re the LHR operation qtee so denying the reality really only makes you and your spin team look foolish.

Is ANYONE at the executive level going to be held responsible for the disaster?
No because operational employees are the only people accountable in this organisation.

New UK recruits coming on line are they??
Daylight sectors?
Bring it on...............

P.S. Say hello to dick more ass AKA fat boy slim for me will you. I can't for the life of me think of an individual more unsuitable for trying to build a happy cohesive and healthy CC culture.

[jb_flyer]

OK, this is a risk coming out ito the firing line, when all instinct tells me to crouch lower in my trench...

My issue with the base is not driven only by the erosion of conditions. My opinion on that issue does not hold much weight, as I am not a Flight Attendant.

My opinion, and this post, comes from a different perspective, that of the wannabe. I know this issue is serious for all current crew, and I do not wish this post to detract from their concerns in any way.

With the number of crew based overseas, in London, NZ and Bangkok, there is increasingly smaller amounts of work being avaliable to people in Australia who want to work here, without moving. There has been numourous comments from UK nationals saying that we should get over it, and I would like to take issue with that. There are many more oppurtunities in the UK/ Europe to work as cabin crew, (yes some are contract or seasonal work, but the number of carriers with London based positions especially...) then we have here in Australia. OK my home town of Perth is not crawling with oppurtunities, but I am willing to move east to where the concentrations are.

So this airline, "The Spirit of Australia" is employing increasing amounts of overseas based crews, in what has been acknowledged as cost cutting. Now remembering that Qantas is not in dire financial troubles, indeed it is one of the most profitable airlines in the world. Qantas is not in a position like many US carriers who are battling bankruptcy, they are in a strong financial position, and enjoy an effective monopoly on their highest grossing routes. (So much for no Government help or handouts hey!)

So I will reserve my opinion of the effect this is having on crews, on conditions and service standards, rosters etc, as I would just be repeating heresay, but I am finding it very difficult to find gainful employment with the Qantas group, and so are many other wannabes. Imagine if the 400 odd crew based overseas were Australian based, many many more oppurtunities.

JB

(ducks back down in the trench, riot shield at the ready)

[jettlager]

No arguement from me jb_flyer.

The overseas bases effectively prevent hundreds and hundreds of Australians an opportunity to fly for "The Spirit of Australia".

Take care, goodluck and thanks for the PM.

Jettlager

[GalleyHag]

jb_flyer

I agree with you 100% and sadly things are about to get a whole lot worse for Australian wannabe cabin crew when it comes to Qantas.

The short haul EBA expires this year and according to an FAAA rep Qantas are asking that a clause be inserted stating that there be NO requirement for permanent employment within the short haul division. No-one really knows how or if this will work but this is just one of the ideas put forward by the company. Currently there is an "alleged" ratio, this is what they want to get rid of, the requirement under this ratio to retain a certain percentage of permanent crew against casual.

It always amazes me when Dixon states Qantas has grown and created 7500 jobs over x number of years but less than 1% of those 7500 would be permanent. What sort of life is contract/casual? But sadly thats it according to Qantas take it or leave it.

I know this is a bit off track but nothing sh*ts me more than knowing hundreds upon hundreds of off-shore permanent cabin crew jobs are available with our national carrier but not 1 permanent job has been offered to wannabe crew based in Australia for many, many years.

But if you hold an EU passport no worries mate!

[jettlager]

Reports indicate that Neil Perry and his Rockpool group have and are expressing serious concerns about the damage being done to their operation with the recent LHR base opening.

As partners in the service and food provided in our "premium cabins" the recognise the very real possibility of lasting damage to THEIR brand.

Compaints are flooding into the frequent flyer department and now its seems the Rockpool group itself.

One poor operator cooked ALL the meals in P/C after take off leaving NOTHING left for the rest of the 12 hour sector which demonstrates that even the basics are failing.
One can only imagine how the finer details of our First and Business class service are panning out.

All of the undeniable difficulties EX LHR where of course entirely avoidable with the proper training and support but as has been pointed out before, money is the king at QF.

Those traveling to LHR as "sherpas" have been given strict instructions NOT to divulge details of the fiasco but denial is impossible with the volume of complaints streaming in.

Denial at managment level is still the order of the day with the "whirling dervish" AKA kylie looking resplendent in his "brand new clothes".

Contrast if you will the concern Neil Perry has with the damage done to HIS company's reputation.
Business us usual at Qantas where it continues to be ALL about money.................
geoff dixon's money.

More updates later.

Jettlager

P.S. Rumour has it that more than a few of the "second wave" are dropping out on reports that all is not well in old blighty.

[DEFCON4]

Spread The Misery

It would appear that this foolishness is to be visited up on the unlucky souls of Germany.The trip to FRA has been trimmed down to 8 days and the bean counters are about to announce that the LHR crew will soon takeover this route as well.It was either this or pullout out of FRA all together.Apparently it was close but the cheapness of the LHR crew won the day.
I still call Australia......what was it again?

[GalleyHag]

It seems like so much flying for long haul is just disappearing. But you have to love Qantas they have thrown some domestic flying to the Melbourne long haul base but wait there's more you now have to pay for your own hotel room. If it wasnt so serious all this would be too funny.

From www.faaa.net

8 April 2005

Attention all Qantas Long Haul Flight Attendants

Planning & Scheduling Update BP238

Downsizing of Perth Long Haul Base & the Base Transfer List
The downsizing of the Perth base has continued for BP238 with transfers out of Perth being actioned. This round of transfer is driven by the need to downsize Perth rather than as a result of vacancies in the other bases. Crew from bases other than Perth with their name on the voluntary base transfer list will only have their request satisfied if it can be reciprocated by another crew member transferring out of the base that crew want to transfer into.

Increase in flying by overseas based crew
More notable changes for BP238 include:

• The final phase of LHR base will be completed with the LHR base operating all flights out of LHR except for the QF1 & QF2. This flight will have 4 BKK based crew. The QF9 & QF10 will be the 1 pattern per day guaranteed to Australian based crew.

• AKL based crew will make up the full complement of Economy cabin flight attendants in the AKL/LAX/AKL sectors and some SYD/LAX/SYD patterns.

• Mumbai and Shanghai patterns will have 2 AKL based crew.

• Jo'burg and HNL patterns will have 3 AKL based crew.

• FRA patterns will have 4 BKK based crew.

Increase in Airbus flying
• There will be 2 MEL/PER/MEL patterns per day for the MEL based crew and various domestic patterns out of SYD.

• A330 flying patterns to HKG from BNE, MEL and SYD will be operated by SYD Longhaul commencing July, week 7 of bid period 238.

Continual Inequity faced by Economy Cabin Flight Attendants

The Association has continued to re-iterate and request the Company, through the P & S Committee, to address the imbalance and inequity faced by economy cabin flight attendants caused partly by AKL and BKK based crew operating only in the A/C category. The Company has continued to ignore the concerns voiced by the Association on this issue, as this issue has minimal to no impact on their “resource planning” objectives. The Association will continue to pursue avenues for this unfairness to be addressed.

Mumbai Issues
The Association listed this issue with the Australian Industrial Relations Commission in February. The issue was heard in conference before the Commission on 1 March 2005. The Commissioner made some recommendations for the parties to consider and could arbitrate on the matter if a compromise is not reached.

Following the Commissioner's recommendations, the Association is still waiting on a reply from the Company, which has indicated that there will be an answer by mid-April. We will keep you informed of developments.

Ad hoc inconsistencies with Operations
Recently, there's been an increase of anecdotal reports from members on questionable discretionary decisions by Operations/Schedulers. They have ranged from requiring crew to purchase their own hotel accommodation to the denial of duty hour re-calculation after a diversion.

When dealing with Schedulers, crew should always note the name of the officer and report any irregularities to your Planning & Scheduling Committee members from the Association.

[peanut pusher]

The True first 6 weeks of the QF LHR base, from a LHR CSM

We'll it goes a little like this.

The first six weeks have been very interesting to say the least.

I thought I would put some acuate facts down as I can't sit bye and let rubbish stand in the way of truth.

True, first two weeks seen many teething problems with a great number of ex s/h crewing finding there feet on a new service and equipment. But they now have there confidence and are skilled up to a high standard. Remember your first day, we'll times it by 10 and you had 10 new people onboard for the first time, all on the same flight. It didn't take long and they know what they are doing now.

False, No roster in the base has been built to 230 hrs, no f/a or csm has worked more than 181 hrs. the average build will be 178 hrs for the next 6 months. nb. you must have 3 days stand down between patterns. (I read through every roster and reserve line completed since day one to check on this one)

True, it's a great place with young crew to work, average age would be around 23.
Other facts are
Wave 2 is experianced L/H crew and new uk starters
The base is 81% female
Of the uk crew, 30% are Australian born and using there uk family passport.

Thai crew, I thought I would make comment on this issue.
Thai crew were great to work with during the first 2 weeks as they helped out greatly. There was a few teething problems and they helped me out greatly.
Jetlagger, please give it up, you are fighting a loosing battle, just look at your comments before the last FAAA ballot for the EBA. You made a fool of yourself then, I can still find your post with the words the no vote is gaining momentom and the EBA is not going to get in.
Thai crew report to LHR base crew that SYD crew are obsest with whats going on, tell us all you know on every trip.
Thai crew remember the reception thay got for the first year, remember the tele tubbie names and stories of go go girls and ping pong balls etc. I remember the crap Thai crew copped was 10 x what your trying to stir up.
Most Thai crew know what it was like to be be new especially onboard with a whole lot of new crew so they have been very supportive. So please don't say in your posts the the SYD and BKK bases have always got on because that is so far fromthe truth.

Things I like, (my personal opion)
* great manager
* crews consist of mostly young happy people with great attitudes. They help and support each other
* The flying is great, work 3 days have 4 off
* Crew come to work in there proper uniform and don't modify it and look great, (not like a bunch of 50 plus old men at hand overs, pax often comment on the age and presentation of the SYD crew to LHR crew, last week a P class passanger asked me what happened in BKK with the crew average age dropping by 30 years) I had to laugh and say botox
* Every crew member wants to be there and it's a great family atmosphere
* Travel to Europe during my days off
* Helping young people find there dream job and flying for a great airline
*Being away from neagative w_nkers who think that the world will never change and they are on the same level as brain surgeons.


Things I don't like
*Being away from my family for so long
*The NRL weekend games
*Being so far from the greatest country in the world
*Poor hand overs from Aus crew but we don't make a big deal of it and should
*Lies told to pax to try and cause problems on next sector, like the crew getting on have never flown before and are lowly paid with little emergency training


Just my opion and thoughts, in 6 months it will be a well oiled machine running just a smoothly as any other great base in the network.

Regards

[ferris]

Interesting to hear the other side.

Being away from neagative w_nkers who think that the world will never change and they are on the same level as brain surgeons

What does one call someone pleased with their efforts at assisting managers line their pockets by screwing their employees? A positive w_nker? Hope you are sharing in the 30 pieces of silver.

The world changes. What it changes into, and how it changes, are choices. Proud of your choice?

[jettlager]

Hello peanut pusher.
Congratulations on the promotion.........?
Did you move the the UK to get the CSMs coat?
Fourth floor????

Anyway............Your report about how fabulous the operation is flies in the face of reports from those directly in contact with it and with those fielding the many complaints.

The LHR base represents to Australian based crew a not inconsiderable loss of pay and conditions.

It also is the vehicle that at present prevents hundreds and hundreds of OTHER Australian residents the oportunity to fly for the nations flag carrier.
The base DENIES AUSTRALIANS the same opportunity afforded you and I.

The fact that you support it for you own ends is your own business.

It represents to SYD based crew however the largest attack yet on our conditions and is lining the pockets of senior executives at cabin crew's expense.

Myself and the hundreds of others who have operated the flagship Kangaroo route for years have arguably provided the highest standards of service in our network.

Does the word "ownership" ring a bell?
It was beaten into us as a concept for service excellence from a sadly departed management team that CONSIDERED US, A PART OF THE BUSINESS.
The London base is a vehicle set up by a management team that CLEARLY does not.

None of us in SYD are happy that our company's reputation for excellence on the route is being sold in exchange for ever increasing executive bonuses and if you take the critisism and exposure of the service failures personally, thats unfortunate.

I'd purposely chosen not to mention "age" and the fact that QFUK is well short on "life experience" as I find ageism distastful, pathetic and rather sad.

However you started it. Good judgement in stressful conditions requires maturity and life experience by the bucket load.

Enthusiasm for ones work is not age specific and the 50 year olds I am privileged to fly with invariably have the skills, pride in their work, life experience and maturity to have our passengers eating out of their hands.

Our passengers are a captive audience for 14 hours at a stretch.
How and at what level is a 22 year old going to relate to and converse with, a 60 year CEO?
Eye candy I suppose but isn't that more appropriate for "Hooters".

Nothing wrong with youth OR experience.

QF needs both in balance. As a cabin crew "community" your base is seriously unbalanced, by your own admission.

Lyn Stanbridge knew this and sadly those now running QF DONT CARE.
THEY JUST WANT CHEAP and sadly our once proud airline is suffering.

Back to ageism.
As a CSM, who do look to for support in a crises, be it medical, security or whatever?
The 22 year old bit of fluff straight out of school.
Good luck.

I'll tell you who I look to. The 50 year old salt and peper haired bloke who has been flying 25 years. He knows what a passenger is going to say or do before they do, can pick his mark, has a cool head and has seen EVERYTHING.

The problems being experienced with LHR are exactly that. The 50 year old ex Senior, ex Air chef, ex Chief. You dont have ENOUGH of them.

Handovers???????
You have GOT to be kidding?
You may be Ex longhaul and have some semblance of what one is but I can assure you your [ex domestic ?] collegues dont.

Perhaps things will in time improve for you and your operation but my guess is it is going to take years.

I personally look foward to a massive regime change at QF that may see a CEO taking a LONGTERM approach to "The Spirit Of Australia's" success rather than the "Chainsaw Dunlop" method we are enduring.
We are 10 years or so behind management trends in the US after all.
Why, they might even close the whole nonsense down.

Jettlager

Congratulations, any truth to the rumour you guys have taken our FRA trips?

I get the message peanut pusher.
It's ALL good, right

[maxy101]

How and at what level is a 22 year old going to relate to and converse with, a 60 year CEO?

How does someone that has worked on board an aircraft doing CC related things going to relate to a CEO whatever their age?
Lets not kid ourselves here, the pax pay to get from A to B safely. I doubt that they are looking to get share tips or company advice from the First Class purser.

[DEFCON4]

truth?

Age has never been an issue on the LHR routes.Having a brother in LHR I did them back to back for years.The crews were always a mixture..gay/straisght,young/old,male/female,some fresh out of training school and some who had been flying for years.
So Peanut Pusher I think you are telling Porkies.
Why would the Company give you access to everyone's roster?
What about privacy issues?
Why would you need to see everone's roster?.
A little less spin and a bit more truth.
If everything is so wonderful why do you need Sherpas?
I have taken over some of these southbound aircraft and the pax comments have varied from not bad to woeful.I have yet to hear "consistently outstanding".
The LHR base is never going to be popular because of what it represents..an enormous erosion of our conditions.
The very reason it exists at all is to save money...nothing else.
Lets see what they do with you in two years time.Lets hope its not tears before bedtime.

[DEFCON4]

Scrubbed or Scrubber?

My wife and I are both Buddhists.
I will spell GWandwanaland however I like ...I live here You Don't.
The way our investment portfolio is shaping up I won't need the waitering(?)waiting job,but thanks for the suggestion,most thoughtful of you.

[jettlager]

Gday scrubbed,

"I think this LHR gig is a good thing. Look at how happy people are with it. Them and the Thais. "

This statement indicates that you really don't have ANY idea what you are talking about.

Cheers,

Jettlager