QF LHR Base (merged)
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Sorry to get involved in all this as I don't work for QF. I'm an aussie that has been living in London for 9 years and I have really fond memories of QF. So much so that I actually considered leaving BA to join QF @ LHR, but when I got a job offer and seen the salary details and terms and conditions no way! What has happened at QF? I usually fly home to SYD via NRT with BA/QF on stand-by and find QF brilliant on that route. I haven't experienced QF direct LHR-SYD but my sis (who is SYD based crew with QF) says QF has been a bit of a shambles, particularly on the european routes for a while now.
My question is this though. When was the last time QF actually employed permanent mainline crews (long or short-haul). Do they still do it? Or is it now all dodgy contracts? Why has your union got nowehere in halting these foreign bases or at least making them mainline bases with decent terms and conditions? Why did the strike that was threatened never happen? Is it because over the years you have slowly got so many temps/casual/foreign based crews that the QF operation could be maintained even if the oz based permanent crews did strike? Or did the union just lay down and take it?
Just curious...
My question is this though. When was the last time QF actually employed permanent mainline crews (long or short-haul). Do they still do it? Or is it now all dodgy contracts? Why has your union got nowehere in halting these foreign bases or at least making them mainline bases with decent terms and conditions? Why did the strike that was threatened never happen? Is it because over the years you have slowly got so many temps/casual/foreign based crews that the QF operation could be maintained even if the oz based permanent crews did strike? Or did the union just lay down and take it?
Just curious...
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Jasmin..A Tad Emotional
1.I didn't say anything about medical emergencies but rather alluding to a situation a la Bangkok.
2.I said nothing regarding differences between short and longhaul
3.The time lag between customers filling out surveys and the results correlated is 6 weeks.Most surveys would relate to flights prior to the LHR base.Also there is still one flight a day operated by Sydney based crew.
Reread my post without the emotional goggles.
2.I said nothing regarding differences between short and longhaul
3.The time lag between customers filling out surveys and the results correlated is 6 weeks.Most surveys would relate to flights prior to the LHR base.Also there is still one flight a day operated by Sydney based crew.
Reread my post without the emotional goggles.
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Thanks Captain Q.
1. I stand corrected re. my mentioning the medical emergency - you were referring to an aircraft emergency ( a la Bangkok )- all crew are trained the same in relation to Aircraft Emergencies - and unless crew are trained in an aircraft that is made to deliberately crash to test trainees reactions - it is impossible to judge how one will react - nobody is able to be placed in a category higher than another in relation to their abilities in an emergency - no amount of flying experience will prepare oneself unless you are in an emergency every week- and from what I recall , the crews responses in Bangkok and also Sydney gate evacuation wasn't perfect at all.
2. My comments re. Long/Short haul - I was referring to stephenj's comments 16th March re. short haul crew operating long haul flights etc. My apologies.
3. The time lag for surveys may be 6 weeks - though when you are handing the surveys out to customers and collecting them again- you have the opportunity to see what feedback has been given- so contrary to other's comments, there have been many satisfied customers in all classes who have flown with QF London based crew.
4. At this stage though the Australian based crew have more than one flight a day into London - it will not be until the entire complement of London based crew are available that the Australian crew will be limited to one flight per day.
I sure hope everything settles down - as I mentioned in my original comments - Qantas management has a hell of a lot to answer for - no London crew can be blamed personally for any problems that occur.
1. I stand corrected re. my mentioning the medical emergency - you were referring to an aircraft emergency ( a la Bangkok )- all crew are trained the same in relation to Aircraft Emergencies - and unless crew are trained in an aircraft that is made to deliberately crash to test trainees reactions - it is impossible to judge how one will react - nobody is able to be placed in a category higher than another in relation to their abilities in an emergency - no amount of flying experience will prepare oneself unless you are in an emergency every week- and from what I recall , the crews responses in Bangkok and also Sydney gate evacuation wasn't perfect at all.
2. My comments re. Long/Short haul - I was referring to stephenj's comments 16th March re. short haul crew operating long haul flights etc. My apologies.
3. The time lag for surveys may be 6 weeks - though when you are handing the surveys out to customers and collecting them again- you have the opportunity to see what feedback has been given- so contrary to other's comments, there have been many satisfied customers in all classes who have flown with QF London based crew.
4. At this stage though the Australian based crew have more than one flight a day into London - it will not be until the entire complement of London based crew are available that the Australian crew will be limited to one flight per day.
I sure hope everything settles down - as I mentioned in my original comments - Qantas management has a hell of a lot to answer for - no London crew can be blamed personally for any problems that occur.
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Jasmin..One Person
The customers on your flight may have been generally happy.Overall so far it ain't good.Wait till the jetlag/fatigue begins to accumulate..the service quality will decline ,the complaining will escalate and crew cohesion will suffer.Its all downhill from here.What will you do at the end of your two years?There may be nothing left for you in OZ.The decision you made probably wasn't a good one.
The LHR Base is about as popular as a fart in an elevator.
The LHR Base is about as popular as a fart in an elevator.
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captain q
i am one of the "little or no experience" uk recruits. will 6 years experience not only on the jumbo, but other a/c types, plus long haul in a full service airline do for you? there are a handful of non flyers on all the courses that are running at the moment, however, by far the majority have plenty of experience and some even, shock horror, on jumbos. wind your neck in and give everyone a fair chance. ive never heard such a load of rubbish.
i am one of the "little or no experience" uk recruits. will 6 years experience not only on the jumbo, but other a/c types, plus long haul in a full service airline do for you? there are a handful of non flyers on all the courses that are running at the moment, however, by far the majority have plenty of experience and some even, shock horror, on jumbos. wind your neck in and give everyone a fair chance. ive never heard such a load of rubbish.
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Flightie...Answers please
So from most reports why is it such a mess?
Why did you leave the other airlines?
Things must have been somewhat dire if you choose to fly with this lot.Do you understand the background to the LHR base?If not bring yourself up to speed...the Base is the precursor to other bases all of which have a negative impact on our income and our lives.There are a lot of others apart from me who would like to see the LHR base fall on its rear.
Why did you leave the other airlines?
Things must have been somewhat dire if you choose to fly with this lot.Do you understand the background to the LHR base?If not bring yourself up to speed...the Base is the precursor to other bases all of which have a negative impact on our income and our lives.There are a lot of others apart from me who would like to see the LHR base fall on its rear.
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Hi flighty,
so are you saying that the comments and behaviour of the Thais together with feedback from LHR based groundstaff and passengers ex BKK is all rubbish????
QFUK fa's who are friendly with other 11 month contactors indicate its a shambles.
I nearly fell over with laughter when I heard the defence given by one of the LHR DAMS................
"Well the planes ARE taking off !!!???? ".
We all know that it is a disaster and set to remain so given that the brand new UK nationals come on line next week.
For me the biggest and most telling failure so far is not the new levels of gross QF management incompetence, as this was a "given" but rather the unwillingness of those in charge on board to defer to the Thais given that they have overwhelmingly, ALL the longhaul experience.
This indicates not just very poor judgement but I suspect also speaks volumes of the "culture" pervading this operation.
Good onboard managers know that the success of their operation is really VERY simple.
Happy people.
Just how you get there is an art, not a science.
You wont find the answers looking in the proceedures manual.
Carry On.
Jettlager
so are you saying that the comments and behaviour of the Thais together with feedback from LHR based groundstaff and passengers ex BKK is all rubbish????
QFUK fa's who are friendly with other 11 month contactors indicate its a shambles.
I nearly fell over with laughter when I heard the defence given by one of the LHR DAMS................
"Well the planes ARE taking off !!!???? ".
We all know that it is a disaster and set to remain so given that the brand new UK nationals come on line next week.
For me the biggest and most telling failure so far is not the new levels of gross QF management incompetence, as this was a "given" but rather the unwillingness of those in charge on board to defer to the Thais given that they have overwhelmingly, ALL the longhaul experience.
This indicates not just very poor judgement but I suspect also speaks volumes of the "culture" pervading this operation.
Good onboard managers know that the success of their operation is really VERY simple.
Happy people.
Just how you get there is an art, not a science.
You wont find the answers looking in the proceedures manual.
Carry On.
Jettlager
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my post was referring to the general negativity towards uk recruits. i was made redundant hence, new job. got some ok experience and aim to put it to good use. thats all. not talking about anything or anyone else, just my own situation, and im happy with that.
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Hi Guys,
As I am new to this forum , first of all I would like to say hello to everybody. Currently my airline reduced cabin crew number....and I am one of them. I am thinking about QF LHR Base, so any chance for contract...numbers....and some terms....rosters...ID commuting etc.?Please...
As I am new to this forum , first of all I would like to say hello to everybody. Currently my airline reduced cabin crew number....and I am one of them. I am thinking about QF LHR Base, so any chance for contract...numbers....and some terms....rosters...ID commuting etc.?Please...
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Lotflyer,
welcome.
Rumour has it that most of the applicants for QFUK were from Eastern European countries.
The new Spirit of Australia I suppose.
You'll fit right in.
Cheers Jettlager
welcome.
Rumour has it that most of the applicants for QFUK were from Eastern European countries.
The new Spirit of Australia I suppose.
You'll fit right in.
Cheers Jettlager
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Jetlagger, you mention "spirit of Australia", but all I can see from the Australians on here is nothing but whingeing and negativity. I have nothing to do with QFUK, and personally couldn't care less whether it works or not, but for heaven's sake give the guys a chance. When new crew come online it's always difficult and slow work for a while, but they soon get up to speed. It isn't rocket science.
I've worked long and short haul, charter and scheduled, and without doubt the easiest work of all is long haul scheduled. The UK based crew aren't even online yet, and already you are criticising them and saying they are rubbish.
Jetlagger, LOTflyer asked a polite question and you replied sarcastically about most applicants being from the eastern block and that (s)he'll fit right in. Rather that than fitting in with the whingeing, complaining Aussies on this forum.
It all boils down to money and the Australian QF crew losing out financially because of the new LHR base.
Good luck to all the UK based crew.
I've worked long and short haul, charter and scheduled, and without doubt the easiest work of all is long haul scheduled. The UK based crew aren't even online yet, and already you are criticising them and saying they are rubbish.
Jetlagger, LOTflyer asked a polite question and you replied sarcastically about most applicants being from the eastern block and that (s)he'll fit right in. Rather that than fitting in with the whingeing, complaining Aussies on this forum.
It all boils down to money and the Australian QF crew losing out financially because of the new LHR base.
Good luck to all the UK based crew.
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About Money?..partly...Dixon's Money
The whole LHR base issue is a lot more about hypocrisy and deceit(lots of it from management)truth.credibility ethics,morality...totally none from management.
Do you think for one minute that the company that screwed us will treat you any differently?Wake up and smell the roses.If the base doesn't work out, you will be back on the street quicker than you can say redundancy.The UK base is about cheap labour.....nothing more.
The greatest threat to Qantas service is Qantas management.They don't give a rats rissole.The share price languishes in a 10 cent band ($3.50/$3.60)because the market is aware of the shambles,
Dixon doesn't see it as a service industry..to him and the clowns on the board it is a trough and transport.(TnT)
"Spirit of Australia"..My Sweet Aunt Fanny!!!
Do you think for one minute that the company that screwed us will treat you any differently?Wake up and smell the roses.If the base doesn't work out, you will be back on the street quicker than you can say redundancy.The UK base is about cheap labour.....nothing more.
The greatest threat to Qantas service is Qantas management.They don't give a rats rissole.The share price languishes in a 10 cent band ($3.50/$3.60)because the market is aware of the shambles,
Dixon doesn't see it as a service industry..to him and the clowns on the board it is a trough and transport.(TnT)
"Spirit of Australia"..My Sweet Aunt Fanny!!!
Last edited by surfside6; 21st Mar 2005 at 01:37.
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Interesting that during the QF "spin doctoring" prior to startup management were advising that ONLY under exceptional circumstances would rosters be built up to company max, 240 hours.
Well I suppose the first roster IS exceptional?????
Well I suppose the first roster IS exceptional?????
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Oh, how miss informed we all are. Jetlagger, you should have seen my first roster! 168 hours. Oh and the second 176. Not to mention the flying which is point to point and mainly night sectors ie. supper and breakfast - how easy. Try to get 240 with a mpg that we have and you will be pushed. By the way have you seen what qantas can work you to back home? - but they dont.
The time off gives us all enough time to travel to the most amazing destinations which are only a few hours away - and cheap, I just had 7 days off and went to Spain!. All in all its a great base to work in and a great place to live. This I say with confidence with my years of long haul flying experience ex-syd.
The time off gives us all enough time to travel to the most amazing destinations which are only a few hours away - and cheap, I just had 7 days off and went to Spain!. All in all its a great base to work in and a great place to live. This I say with confidence with my years of long haul flying experience ex-syd.
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galley guru,
where do we start?????
I wouldnt be crowing too loud about your roster as the filth running QF might just hear you.
My guess is that "they" won't be in position to ramp up the efficiency of the base until more flights come on line.
Do you know a fellow by the name of Clinton??? He is one of the 11 month contractors FORCED to move to LHR in order to obtain a full time job.
I do, and his roster is 240 hours. Dont worry, your time will come.
What IS the story with the culture of the crew up there????????????
The Thais HATE [their words, not mine] flying with you lot. Something to do with an unwillingness/inability to work and not just incompetence I believe.
Where in "the book" does it say that the cart exchange is a "Thai only" operation??????????
An "incident" of late where both R4a and L4a worked in J/C for breakfast whilst the CSS stood in the back galley making tea and coffee effectively leaving just the Thais to do the whole Y/C service.
No wonder they are not happy.
Complaints to the CSM falling on deaf ears as the whole arrangement was cooked up by the ex domestic on board managers.
Tell me its not true that breakfast was forgotten to be done into BKK the other day????!!!!!
Where in the PA book is the explanation for that cock up?
An interesting "spin off" from the LHR base is that it has driven the SYD base and Thai crew together as never before. Sure, we have always got along well but recent events it seems have demonstrated [to the Thais at least] the efforts the SYD based crew routinely make.
LHR based ground staff commenting, "Gee, they're a miserable lot". One, with years of airline experience going so far as saying that one crew in particular were the rudest people they had ever met.
Overall it seems that things are SO bad that EVEN QF mis-management have noticed!!!!!!!!!
Care to comment on the rumoured rescue mission from SYD. We hear that "Sherpas", in the form of experienced SYD based crew will be sent up to LHR to try and minimise the damage to OUR reputation??????
The problems with the LHR base are cultural and far deeper than just inexperience. Given the attitude and behaviour of the crew paxing up there in first class those problems are set to continue for a LONG, LONG time.
Bring on the daylight services I say....................
Jettlager
where do we start?????
I wouldnt be crowing too loud about your roster as the filth running QF might just hear you.
My guess is that "they" won't be in position to ramp up the efficiency of the base until more flights come on line.
Do you know a fellow by the name of Clinton??? He is one of the 11 month contractors FORCED to move to LHR in order to obtain a full time job.
I do, and his roster is 240 hours. Dont worry, your time will come.
What IS the story with the culture of the crew up there????????????
The Thais HATE [their words, not mine] flying with you lot. Something to do with an unwillingness/inability to work and not just incompetence I believe.
Where in "the book" does it say that the cart exchange is a "Thai only" operation??????????
An "incident" of late where both R4a and L4a worked in J/C for breakfast whilst the CSS stood in the back galley making tea and coffee effectively leaving just the Thais to do the whole Y/C service.
No wonder they are not happy.
Complaints to the CSM falling on deaf ears as the whole arrangement was cooked up by the ex domestic on board managers.
Tell me its not true that breakfast was forgotten to be done into BKK the other day????!!!!!
Where in the PA book is the explanation for that cock up?
An interesting "spin off" from the LHR base is that it has driven the SYD base and Thai crew together as never before. Sure, we have always got along well but recent events it seems have demonstrated [to the Thais at least] the efforts the SYD based crew routinely make.
LHR based ground staff commenting, "Gee, they're a miserable lot". One, with years of airline experience going so far as saying that one crew in particular were the rudest people they had ever met.
Overall it seems that things are SO bad that EVEN QF mis-management have noticed!!!!!!!!!
Care to comment on the rumoured rescue mission from SYD. We hear that "Sherpas", in the form of experienced SYD based crew will be sent up to LHR to try and minimise the damage to OUR reputation??????
The problems with the LHR base are cultural and far deeper than just inexperience. Given the attitude and behaviour of the crew paxing up there in first class those problems are set to continue for a LONG, LONG time.
Bring on the daylight services I say....................
Jettlager
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Jetlagger
Gossip and here say!
No matter how well it goes im sure you would find some ridiculous romour to whinge about.
How disgusting that you believe it has taken the Lhr base for the Thai and Syd crew to get along! You should have got along with them from the start.
Under performing crew are in every base, Some of the worst ive seen are out of Syd. Then you have the higher percentage of people that do a great job, some of the best ive flown with are out of syd. Got to ask, do you really think a entire crew 'forgot' to do the breakfast into BKK -come on.!
As for the rest of you vile accusations, Im not even going to comment. All gossip and here say.
Everyone has a choice. Qantas made it quite clear to us that the rosters could be built up to 240 hours from the start. We agreed to that when we signed he contract! If you wernt prepared to do those hours dont sign.
No one is forced to do anything. The contract staff knew that their time flying was for an 11 month contract when they signed 11 months ago. They didnt have to come here, no one was forced to do anything. They could have gone back to their pre-flying qf job, which effectiely they agreed to when they initially signed their 11 month contract. Being offered 2 years in London and a permanent package for flying when they get home is an absolute bonus and congrats to them!.
Finally jetlagger, you do seem to spend alot of time and energy worrying about our conditions, mate it doesnt effect you so leave the undue worrying to us.
Gossip and here say!
No matter how well it goes im sure you would find some ridiculous romour to whinge about.
How disgusting that you believe it has taken the Lhr base for the Thai and Syd crew to get along! You should have got along with them from the start.
Under performing crew are in every base, Some of the worst ive seen are out of Syd. Then you have the higher percentage of people that do a great job, some of the best ive flown with are out of syd. Got to ask, do you really think a entire crew 'forgot' to do the breakfast into BKK -come on.!
As for the rest of you vile accusations, Im not even going to comment. All gossip and here say.
Everyone has a choice. Qantas made it quite clear to us that the rosters could be built up to 240 hours from the start. We agreed to that when we signed he contract! If you wernt prepared to do those hours dont sign.
No one is forced to do anything. The contract staff knew that their time flying was for an 11 month contract when they signed 11 months ago. They didnt have to come here, no one was forced to do anything. They could have gone back to their pre-flying qf job, which effectiely they agreed to when they initially signed their 11 month contract. Being offered 2 years in London and a permanent package for flying when they get home is an absolute bonus and congrats to them!.
Finally jetlagger, you do seem to spend alot of time and energy worrying about our conditions, mate it doesnt effect you so leave the undue worrying to us.
Last edited by Galley Guru; 5th Apr 2005 at 11:05.
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Good morning galley guru,
it is morning in the UK isn't it?
SYD and Thai crew have always got on and if you ARE SYD base you would know so.
The LHR base has however given cause for the Thais to see us in a different light.
All that have flown with them since the LHR start up say so.
Lets be clear. What is happening with you and your lot Ex LHR is the cause for this new found respect.
Underperformers, granted are in all bases however they are traditionally the [rare] exeption and not it seems as is the case in LHR, the norm.
If there weren't SERIOUS problems in your part of the world with the operation then why is it that "sherpas" are rumoured to be [at great expense] on the way?
Tell us it isn't happening will you please so that we can all sleep at night without worry.
I'm a shareholder after all.
As for gossip and rumour...................?
A mate who took over the 2 EX BKK the other day knew the inbound LHR based EX LONGHAUL CSM.
He said 4 words as he walked off the A/C shaking his head..............."this crew is f*cked".
I'm impressed with the spin you have put on the deal offered to the contract crew. It could [did?] have come straight out of QCC.
The fact of the matter is that the LHR base has no shortage of people in it who's only reason for being there is the promise of what should be in this country [and until recently was] a given.
A FULL TIME JOB.
The vast majority of these people after all were external applicants and had NO jobs to return to.
Lets be clear here.
The LHR base was set up for one reason only.
As a tool to transfer money from the pockets of cabin crew into those of senior executives via their performanced based pay.
In doing so sadly it seems our reputation as a quality airline is going to be the first and most serious casualty.
Who at the executive level is going to be held responsible for this FCUK up?
No one. They are too busy counting the zeros in their pay packets. They'll have long gone, leaving the airline a shell.
Jettlager
P.S. I couldnt give a rats about your conditions and where the hell is qtee??
it is morning in the UK isn't it?
SYD and Thai crew have always got on and if you ARE SYD base you would know so.
The LHR base has however given cause for the Thais to see us in a different light.
All that have flown with them since the LHR start up say so.
Lets be clear. What is happening with you and your lot Ex LHR is the cause for this new found respect.
Underperformers, granted are in all bases however they are traditionally the [rare] exeption and not it seems as is the case in LHR, the norm.
If there weren't SERIOUS problems in your part of the world with the operation then why is it that "sherpas" are rumoured to be [at great expense] on the way?
Tell us it isn't happening will you please so that we can all sleep at night without worry.
I'm a shareholder after all.
As for gossip and rumour...................?
A mate who took over the 2 EX BKK the other day knew the inbound LHR based EX LONGHAUL CSM.
He said 4 words as he walked off the A/C shaking his head..............."this crew is f*cked".
I'm impressed with the spin you have put on the deal offered to the contract crew. It could [did?] have come straight out of QCC.
The fact of the matter is that the LHR base has no shortage of people in it who's only reason for being there is the promise of what should be in this country [and until recently was] a given.
A FULL TIME JOB.
The vast majority of these people after all were external applicants and had NO jobs to return to.
Lets be clear here.
The LHR base was set up for one reason only.
As a tool to transfer money from the pockets of cabin crew into those of senior executives via their performanced based pay.
In doing so sadly it seems our reputation as a quality airline is going to be the first and most serious casualty.
Who at the executive level is going to be held responsible for this FCUK up?
No one. They are too busy counting the zeros in their pay packets. They'll have long gone, leaving the airline a shell.
Jettlager
P.S. I couldnt give a rats about your conditions and where the hell is qtee??
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Let it go Jet lagger, your flogging a dead horse. Ofcourse the base was set up to save money. Why else would they, so I can live in a different country for the hell of it? Move on
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Come on galley guru.
You still have not answered my question.
Are "qf mismanagement" sending SYD based "sherpas" to LHR to try and fix what is obviously a complete and utter f*ck up?
Since you addressed your original post to me surely the least you could do would be to answer just a little question????????
Jettlager
You still have not answered my question.
Are "qf mismanagement" sending SYD based "sherpas" to LHR to try and fix what is obviously a complete and utter f*ck up?
Since you addressed your original post to me surely the least you could do would be to answer just a little question????????
Jettlager