Blink

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Highflight Said:

Id much rather have some very experienced airline pilots with little or no corporate experience up front than a high houred corporate pilot with no airline experience. Having straddled both camps now for over 20 years the SOPs and many other aspects that I currently see in corporate aviation leave a lot to be desired in many cases.The wealthy masses now travelling by private jet think they are somehow getting a better product because of what they are paying but the truth in my experience is somewhat different.

Rather broad brush old chap, you might want to revisit that. Actually you might not want to in which case you are coming across as a bit of an arrogant git and perhaps more worrying for you the vast majority of pilots who come on here (who you may be seeking to employ in case this fantastic seem of VLJ pilots [which this corner of the industry has managed to miss for the last 30 months or so] dries up) think that somebody senior within Blink is an a$$hole.

Sorry!

[Highflight420]

I'm fortunate enough that in twenty years of flying both corporate and airline I have never been labelled as arrogant,many other things perhaps but not that.

The truth is, whether you like it or not and with exceptions in both of course,the standard of both training and operational procedures is generally higher in the airline world,those of you who have never set foot outside the corporate world might and will take issue with my statement and find it arrogant,it's not its a statement of fact.I feel well qualified to say that as I have done both at various times over 20 years and its been my good fortune that thanks to my excellent and very thorough training within the airline environment that I'm able to survive in the corporate world.

Blink is not revolutionary and the people concerned are well aware of the Mustangs limitations and it's niche in the market place but their business model is new and a little different to companies trading at the moment,sufficient to have attracted some considerable investment,particularly significant at a time when a lot of money men are drawing in the purse strings. There must be some confidence in it's business model to have ordered 45 aircraft and likewise Jetbird with an order for 100 Embraer Phenoms

Again it will never cease to amaze me on this site how so many pilots are ready to shoot down a new idea whilst claiming they know best but I guess its ever been thus on PPRuNe, if thats the case why aren't more pilots setting up companies and working for themselves? Little bit of small man syndrome going on here me thinks and I'd be a little worried about the mentality of someone who thinks flying a small aircraft is any less purposeful employment than flying a large one,I thought those views had gone out with the ark,obviously not.

[NorthCountryBoy]

cldvr says:

Can't wait to see them
Clean the cabin after 3 rugrats have emptied every drawer and ground the peanuts in the carpet
Carry the luggage in 35 degree heat
Sit in the cockpit at -25 degrees awaiting a clearance
Deal with handling agents, ramp rats, customs and immigratioin
Deal with pax delays
Deal with ops screw ups
Deal with reroutes down routes without dispatchers
Deal with reduced rests and extensions of duties
Deal with queues for fuel, catering, plogs, flightplans.
Deal with reduced cruise levels due to low ROC
Deal with LMC's
Empty a lousy toilet cartridge
Wash the cups, plates and silverware (oops no room to put them anywhere)
Try to find a supermarket downroute at 3 am for stock
Liaise with engineering

Oh yeah, BA crew are well placed to work in our industry!!!

To each their own, we don't quite fit in at BA, they don't quite fit in with us. Choosing between executive and legacy is a clear choice and not comparable.

BA guys are excellent at what they do and we in turn are excellent at what we do.

This is by no means meant as airline vs executive bashing!!!!

And there are many corporate pilots I wouldn't mind seeing deal with the above list !!!

In defence of some of the ex-BA guy's in the industry (I can only speak for the ones I know and deal with), they're not quite as incapable of adjusting to life in the corporate world as you seem to give (or not give) them credit for

[Flintstone]

Originally Posted by HIGHFLIGHT 420

I'm fortunate enough that in twenty years of flying both corporate and airline I have never been labelled as arrogant

Being the considerate chap that I am I was inclined to think that most of your last post might be interpreted as being ever so slightly ironic but I gladly gave you the benefit of the doubt. This bit.....

Originally Posted by HIGHFLIGHT 420

Little bit of small man syndrome going on here me thinks and I'd be a little worried about the mentality of someone.......

....however would appear, in some circles, to be the clincher.

Not sure you're doing yourself any favours there old fruit.

[Phil Brockwell]

I think the scepticism comes from the history of people setting up operations with no experience in commercial private ops, tend to have a poor track record of being successful. (lets start a list - Gregg Air...Air Victoria to start)

I see that Blink are going to become an aircraft leasing company, who knows if they will make money, but understand this. Pilots and passengers want to know that the aircraft are being operated properly, not that the responsibility of safe operations can be purchased in the form of umbrella operations.

If my aircraft are run unsafely it is my responsibility. If Blinks aircraft run unsafely the guy from TAG goes to prison. Superior BA crew or not, I know which aircraft I would want to put my familly in. Also it makes stupid business sense to have the most key part of your operation not under your control.

Incidentally, most operators get weekly calls from people offering City Funding, just no-one wants it.

[Highflight420]

Phil I know of your company and the good reputation it has and I totally agree with your comments,however its not unusual in order to get up and running to piggy back on someone elses AOC and I doubt TAG would have agreed without some considerable thought beforehand,nobody to my knowledge on this site has ever rubbished TAG as a company and the people I know who work there have nothing but praise for the operation.If I remember correctly that is how Easy Jet started.

I've no doubt Blink will obtain their own AOC in the fullness of time,and safety will have to be the number 1 priority hence the employment of considerably experienced pilots as the start up team,any talk of whether ex BA pilots can or are willing to take on the extra roles involved in corporate is just silly uninformed twaddle with a little bit of anti BA retoric thrown in for good measure.Those of you out there employed in corporate aviation who like to think there is a large difference in the two types of operation are deluding themselves,there is only one way to operate an aircraft be it corporate or airline, big or small and that is with excellent training from the start and a good set of SOPs, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in the past.

[Phil Brockwell]

Highflight.

What was the CRJ operator who woke up one day without an AC because TAG had pulled it?

Phil

[flynowpaylater]

I have to agree with Phil. They (someone) has invested millions of pounds into aircraft, yet have failed to invest the £100k or so in obtaining an AOC.

If I remember correctly that is how Easy Jet started.

That is correct, however, this was a completely different business model. Air Foyle completely ran the operation, with EasyJet selling the seats. Running an AOC is all about accountability. I fail to see where the accountability is with Blink. It's there own pilots, with there own ops, yet they are not accountable. As good a reputation as TAG have, I think they will find it difficult to demonstrate to the Feds that they have the required control.

No axe to grind by the way, just surprised that such a short cut can be made, with such investment going in. Notwithstanding the extra cost of piggy backing on someone's AOC. I am sure TAG are not doing for nothing. This will ultimately bring the cost per hour up, and make the mustang even less viable.

[Highflight420]

God I'm glad I don't work with some of you guys,so many negative comments.I guess that's why you end up flying in the front two seats and not the back!!!!

[Phil Brockwell]

Me....fly....now that's an aircraft I wouldn't put my family on. Must be pimms o'clock.

Highflight. You are surrounded by some of the sharpest minds in what it takes to make an operation commercially viable (obviously not me).

We normally get to charge a fortune for the advice your 20 years of sitting in a cockpit have qualified you to dismiss.

I think it great that you believe in your product....so did I on many failed projects. Time will tell.

[Iver]

Here is future office for Blink pilots:

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.p...6113223&nseq=0

G1000 seems pretty capable.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Highflight

there is only one way to operate an aircraft be it corporate or airline, big or small and that is with excellent training from the start and a good set of SOPs, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in the past

But thats all well and good, I'm sure your prospective employees have fine airline flying pedigrees and a fantastic training record etc etc.

As you have a foot in both camps perhaps you can explain how your turboprop guys and ex 744 captains who fancy a change would cope with a Katana coming the other way in an uncontrolled circuit or say a busy little VFR reposition say Southend to Biggin direct.

The only exposure to other close in and dirty traffic (The non TCAS kind) that some of these guys will have ever seen is on the last day of your sim refresher (I assume we have all seen the flying fire truck)

Stumbling from one radar environment to another four times a day whilst on the "rails" of a typical turboprop operators schedule is not particularly challenging.

No doubt all Blink pilots will learn all these skills, I'm sure you would agree that its not something you can do in the sim. But in the meantime where's your Airline safety????? Sometimes you need to see things for the first tiime for yourself.

Perhaps play it "Airline" safe and go to Nice instead of Cannes and wait 3 hours for fuel or Lulsgate instead of Gloucester, Gatwick instead of Southend, Geneva instead of Sion and make the pax taxi the rest of the way.

If my 6 numbers came up and I managed to buy me a 7X I would immediately retire proceed directly to BA's crew room at LHR dig out the crustiest 744 TRE and pay him 200k to fly me to Singapore. Mustangs are Kingair 90's with jet engines, the long winded point I'm trying to make is dont pontificate about airline safety and accuse others of being less safe than you are and then employ round pegs for square holes.

Sincerely wish you all the best with it though, I'm sure it will be a great success, and if its not sell the options on the a/c and pocket the vast amounts of cash.

[Chippie Chappie]

Highflight420,

So you've got 4 pilots, oodles of cash, ordered 45 aircraft (that's where the cash is going, no?) and arranged to piggy-back off someone else's AOC.

Lots of plans but what have you actually done/achieved? Until you've proved that this business model works, it's just a model.

I guess that's why you end up flying in the front two seats and not the back!!!!

Did you pick that one up off "How to win friends and influence people". Don't think I'll be submitting my CV to that sort of "management" if that's your attitude towards the people who are critical to the success of your business.

Chips

[apruneuk]

Highflight

"its been my good fortune that thanks to my excellent and very thorough training within the airline environment that I'm able to survive in the corporate world."

Why is it that I have a mental image of Higgins from Magnum when I read your posts? A glance at several of the current threads on the Rumours forum will show that some airlines' sops and/or the implementation of same occasionally leave a lot to be desired.

In corporate, as in airline, there are bottom-feeding cowboy operations who let the side down. There are also many professionally-run outfits who strive to maintain high standards in all departments. Rather than trumpeting your superiority and getting fragile pilots' backs up it might be a better idea to quietly lead by example in your new venture thus shaming those with shabby sops and poor training into emulating Blink. The skies will surely be safer for it.

[Highflight420]

apruneuk

I think if you read my previous post I said there are exceptions in both camps.

Buts thats the point I dont see airline being that different to corporate,its down to individuals who like to think the one can't do the others job which is really a load of tosh.

Regards your point about leading by example you are exactly right and I think that's what the Blink team intend to do,whether it works or not only time will tell but there is nothing wrong in having immense pride in what you are trying to achieve and something thats lacking from the workplace in general these days.

[Highflight420]

Chippie Chappie

Why would you be critical of a team of people trying to set up something new? it seems this sort of attitude is endemic in the UK workplace these days.

[Phil Brockwell]

Highflight.

I think people are negative because they think it's a reckless idea.

When AIr Charter Scotland purchased CJ's did everyone call them arrogant...no because it wasn't risky beyond commercial sense.

In fact when LEA anounced it's Mustang purchase, people aplauded (a fan of the airframe or not). because they do it properly, and it is part of a larger fleet.

To phase in 40 aircraft with no license to operate them in a market that will not support another 40 aircraft is at best optimistic.

The client gets an inferior product and the rest of us have to put up with the rate dumping that always follows struggling operators who need large market share to simply break even.

[CABUS]

I am afraid to say I have been watching this thread and I feel it has got a bit bitter. My personal opinion is that companies such as BA that operate SESMA in all their aircraft and monitor its trends and then modify the training to suit is an excellent way to train. This way everyone can learn from someone else's misfortune to create a safer fleet. I am probably mistaken here but I cannot think of MANY privite jets that have these capibilites and put them towards such good use. If I am just miss informed I do apologise but surely everyone can agree this is an excellent way to iron out problems and trends within any company. The reason I mention this is becuase everyone seems a bit bitter that BA pilots have been mentioned to be better than others. Because of these systems in many large airlines, not only BA, I must agree that they surely have a better form of training especially as some large well established airlines have had this inforce for some years now. Also airlines are able to refresh and train their pilot in advance and offer jump seat rides to familiarize them with the procedures, surely this can only help. Some companies have to lead the way in safety, NOT saying that BA is one of them but why are we bitter and unable to accept some companies train better than others as long as safety is moving forward and all companies are progressing who really cares?

And for the following comment.. I mean come on were all friends here!

As you have a foot in both camps perhaps you can explain how your turboprop guys and ex 744 captains who fancy a change would cope with a Katana coming the other way in an uncontrolled circuit

I fly with a retired BA 767/Flybe Capt and it does not bother him in the slightest, he acutally laughs and mentions previous times where this happend in his career. I remember him joking about being number 2 behind a glider in a DH4 in France, it was either La Rochelle or Toulouse.

Anyway lets not all get bitter, its obvious that all pilots are trained to a very high standard and have expertise in their own field its not a competition about who is a better pilot!

I wish Blink every success!

[Flintstone]

Originally Posted by HIGHFLIGHT420

I guess that's why you end up flying in the front two seats and not the back!!!!

Aaaaannnnndd.......STRIKE TWO!!!


Tell me HF. In your very excellent airline training and (implied) inferior GA/bizjet training did anyone ever mention CRM? Warning flags are popping up on your posts with increasing regularity.

As for the Blink model I think, as others have said, it's a bomb. Better business brains than mine are questioning the viability of these machines and no doubt as the result of sound reasoning whereas to me, as a lowly 'front seater' it just smells wrong. Range, capacity etc, etc. Nahhhh, put the money in a savings account instead.

I would also question the claim of all these multi-thousand, widebody captains jumping ship to fly a....a........what was it? Mustang.....? Shurely shome mishtake?

High time, ex-flag carrier captains with low time (read 'new') FO's? At the risk of over generalising, that's a situation that will require some very careful monitoring and that's before we go down the 'who empties the bog?' route (yes, yes, yes I know. I've flown with ex-airline, ex-military, ex-you-name-it pilots too). They'll just get fed up.

[Highflight420]

Flintstone,

I'm pleased to say my CRM skills are up there with the best of them,unfortunately this forum doesn't bring out the best of them.

I have never said BA pilots are the best pilots in the world but and its a big but, they are amongst the best trained,we have all passed the initial GFTs and IR but we don't all go on to get the best follow up training,now you can go off and throw your toys out of the pram,tell me your aircraft is bigger than mine etc etc because of that statement but it's a fact.

What strikes me as very sad is the amount of negative comments and self professed experts on this site.I have never said Blink will necessarily go on to be a raging success but two young men have had the foresight and enthusiasm to give it their all.I would add that I sit up front too and always will because I don't have that little something extra that sets those that do and those that don't apart.

I for one admire them for being prepared to give it a go the same way that the foresight of a certain greek cypriot has given rise to the creation of hundreds of pilots jobs flying around in orange aircraft.

Phil,

It's called competition and it's been around since the begining of time,who knows if the model works you might find yourself ordering some.