Blink
 

Hi, I wondered if anyone had any info on proposed pay rates for the Blink startup.

http://www.flyblink.com/

Thanks guys,

GS.

I think its in the region of £60,000 for capts and £30,000 for FO's.

If they can get 3000hr experienced corporate pilots I will be shocked I would bet the average experience for their Captains will be 1000hrs or they have found a pool no one else knows about.

African - Its all about the money. If they pay GBP 60000/year then I am sure they will find people in the turbo-prop market in UK. Sure there are quite a few guys with some a fair bit of experience who wouldn't mind a change.

CP

why interested in pay per annum... these guys will be gone in a blink ;)

No it won't,this is a very well financed start up with a detailed a long thought out business plan, 45 aircraft have been ordered to be delivered over four years making it the largest Cessna Mustang operator in the world

Four pilots hired so far, all ex British Airways all but one senior training Captains,the level of experience in hours alone perhaps 55000 flying hours.

The company will not be hiring Captains with a 1000 hours experience,it may be about the size of an APU on a jumbo!!!! but it has a sophisticated avionics fit that would put several modern airliners to shame.

The going rate for C525 pilots is £55,000 so I doubt they will poach many from there as most experienced C525/premier pilots are looking to move to larger ac in a buoyant market. So rather than GA pilots they could possibly look at airline pilots from Flybe etc. As from pilots from other jet airlines that is doubtful. They will be lower down the pile than C525 so that will mean no help from handling agents. A mustang will mean cleaning your own ac, getting your own catering and carrying all the bags, and I can't see many BA pilots wanting that! Also the hours they are quoting are similar to NetJets, so why will people not join a large company with large ac, better pay and good prospects.

I assume they will be able to cancel / sell off some of those positions if the biz plan proves too optimistic. What are the financial ramifications if the Mustang proves to be unpopular with the paying public? Would Cessna allow Blink to role them over onto proper aircraft?

Phil

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of negative comments on this site,for your information the pay will be above industry standard and lifestyle is something that a lot of thought has /will be gone into,together with other benefits.

Id much rather have some very experienced airline pilots with little or no corporate experience up front than a high houred corporate pilot with no airline experience. Having straddled both camps now for over 20 years the SOPs and many other aspects that I currently see in corporate aviation leave a lot to be desired in many cases.The wealthy masses now travelling by private jet think they are somehow getting a better product because of what they are paying but the truth in my experience is somewhat different.

For a lot of pilots a short range aircraft with a max endurance of two hours no catering to worry about and small enough to clean in a jiffy could be very attractive,as the old saying goes size isn't everything and in my experience the larger the aircraft the correspondingly worse is the lifestyle.Personally I have had enough of hotel rooms to last me a lifetime.

Phil it goes up and comes down just like any other aircraft so I guess it must be a proper aeroplane.VLJs are coming just as sure as the LO CO airlines did ten plus years ago and they are super fuel efficient.At the moment each Mustang could probably fetch a $300000 dollar premium so yes if it doesn't pan out then I guess a nice tidy sum could be made.But I guess thats what sets entrepreneurs aside from the rest of us in that they are prepared to try.

African Drunk, rather arrogant of you to assume pilots going to your stated desinations above are unable to manage the likes of Samedan, etc,still know who I'd rather be with and yes they have found a pool that no one else knows about.

Highflight.

It's just a start-up with a light jet. As light jets go, it has one feature, it's new and on a par price wise with the existing CJ's. It has a range issues, but so do the CJ's (but not quite as restrictive) it also has speculated ATC issues due to it's poor climb performance. If the price and level of service overcomes it's limitations then it will probably do OK.

We nearly purchased a couple, but could not get the return on capital that we get on the CJ, with an existing infrastructure and client base. Best of luck to these new guys, but the model has some major "IF's".

If you can find enough crews.
If you can find enough clients.
If you can keep the clients.
If TAG don't pull the AOC
If ATC allow RVSM altitudes.
If BA crews want to fly in RVSM airspace without TCAS
If your pax don't mind peeing in the cabin.


The list goes on....

Every product has a demand curve, I would expect that in order to compete with other options these aircraft would have to go out at about £1000 per hour and I can't make that work.

Too much risk for me, but that's the difference between me and an Entrepreneur. If it works then I'm sure we will be one of the imitators.

Phil

I thought it had Garmin G1000. Like the G1000 in a PPL's new 172. Even a lowly 500 hour Citation FO like me is quite at home with Primus 1000 and Proline 21 these days. If the avionics are too sophisticated for a modern airline pilot then wouldn't you rather have that 1,500 hour bizjet captain up front after all?

And you never know, he might be less likely to be absent whenever it's time to add Prist or empty the potty.

Just wondering. ;)

Highflight420 said:

Bully for you. I'm sure that two pilots who have know idea about operating in the corporate world will deliver the level of service that you desire. But, do you really think you'll get "some very experienced airline pilots" onto that aircraft with those salaries?

You can only sell any extra aircraft at a slow rate otherwise you'll flood the market and send their price towards terra firma.

I was wondering where all those Bulgarian trainees went to....:}

I'm just predicting the fun that Highflight is going to have rubbing my nose in it if Blink float for £X billion in a few years. Don't worry about the negatives, it's an opinionated business, and there are many who will remind me of the many many times I have been wrong before, but don't be too evangelical about the Mustang, the revolutionary thing about Blink is the amount of funding, not the business model, and surely not the aircraft which was really designed to block a competitor coming into the market, not as a serious public transport machine.

P

The Mustang is not going to work in the EU. They are too small, too slow, poorly equiped, have insufficient range, no payload, no practial toilet, insufficient luggage space.

The following is the performance data:

BOW (lb): 5,550
MTOW (lb): 8,645
Max landing weight (lb): 8,000
Max fuel load (gal): 2,580
Useful load (lb): 3,180
Max payload, full fuel (lb): 600

Max ceiling (ft) : 410
NBAA IFR range (nm): 1,167
Long-range cruise (ktas): 315
Max cruise (ktas): 340
Burn rate at 340 (gph): 91

Takeoff distance (ft): 3,110
Landing distance: (ft): 2,380
Balanced field length (ft): 3,110

Range:
The 510 is only good for Western Europe. With two pilots, three pax and luggage it will not reach Italy from the UK. Come winter time it will not make it home from southern Spain or Portugal without refuelling.

Speed:
The 510 is 20% slower then the 525 and 550B. Punters will wake up to this rapidly, time is money (corny but oh so true)

Price:
The 510 is not 20% cheaper on a trip by trip comparison to the 525 or 550B. A punter does not care what a plane cost per hour, he is interested in a return FAB-NCE for a weekend. The 510 is not significantly cheaper to justify the smaller size. The fixed cost of a 510 is the same as a 525/550B. Mx has the same hourly rate, EU charges the same, fuel burn difference on a trip for trip comparison is neglible, parking charges, handling and landing fees are the same.

Climb rate:
The 510 cannot climb fast enough to get above the weather and keep up with any of the other traffic. The punter will be stuck in the ****e for longer and is not going to be happy, neither will the supposed BA captain be when he has to clean the sick....

Ramp presence:
For crew, punters and handling agents alike the 510 is a toy plane. Ramp presence is very important to the punter. Customers who will charter the 510 initially will leave en masse after 4-6 trips and move up to 525's 550B's and even 560/560XL's/HS125. When I show up and order 8,000 liters of fuel I get service, when a 510 shows and orders less then my car takes he will be at the end of the queue and wait for hours. Try NCE in summer...

Crew:
There is a huge competition for qualified crew. A 510 cannot compete with the bigger planes purely for comfort, size, speed, ramp presence, clientele, APU, systems. Even if you pay left seat drivers 100k a year you will not tempt them away from the bigger jets and operators. There is no way that a BA captain, or even eJ/FR, will leave their stable rosters, ops department, pensions etc. for a 510.

Luggage space:
Anybody who flies in this industry knows that punters bring everything including the kitchen sink. The 510 is not designed to fly 3-4 pax to the south of France for a weekend, the Mrs alone will have 3-5 bags. No room for gulf clubs, skis etc.

Payload:
Only two punters and fuel, enough said.

Toilet:
Punters want a loo (private, not in the middle of the cabin) the target audience for the 510 are mostly younger families with kids, you will loose customers to the 525 and 550B rapidly. Even if the punter does not need the loo it is purely psychological.

Blink:
The investor will want a return of 12-15% per annum or else he will invest his money safely offshore in a hedgefund. I cannot see Blink generating that kind of return on capital with a 510

cldrvr you are completely wrong! I would consider downgrading for £100,000 p.a. :E (waiting for pm job offer....)

Chippie, I am just commenting on Blink's own statement that BA captains are joining Blink en masse.....

Can't wait to see them
Clean the cabin after 3 rugrats have emptied every drawer and ground the peanuts in the carpet
Carry the luggage in 35 degree heat
Sit in the cockpit at -25 degrees awaiting a clearance
Deal with handling agents, ramp rats, customs and immigratioin
Deal with pax delays
Deal with ops screw ups
Deal with reroutes down routes without dispatchers
Deal with reduced rests and extensions of duties
Deal with queues for fuel, catering, plogs, flightplans.
Deal with reduced cruise levels due to low ROC
Deal with LMC's
Empty a lousy toilet cartridge
Wash the cups, plates and silverware (oops no room to put them anywhere)
Try to find a supermarket downroute at 3 am for stock
Liaise with engineering

Oh yeah, BA crew are well placed to work in our industry!!!

To each their own, we don't quite fit in at BA, they don't quite fit in with us. Choosing between executive and legacy is a clear choice and not comparable.

BA guys are excellent at what they do and we in turn are excellent at what we do.

This is by no means meant as airline vs executive bashing!!!!

And I am commenting on Highflight420's very defensive statements. Hyperbole cldrvr.

The whole debate of legacy vs executive

Apples and Oranges

can, worms, hide....

cldrvr, check pm

Highflight420

"Id much rather have some very experienced airline pilots with little or no corporate experience up front than a high houred corporate pilot with no airline experience"

A bit arrogant of you to come to the GA forum with that attitude. If I was about to hang out on the ramp at Farnborough in a toy jet I'd practice a little more humility. Maybe a more realistic name would help - how about Lowflight220 ?