Blink
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"To phase in 40 aircraft with no license to operate them in a market that will not support another 40 aircraft is at best optimistic."
I think that Blink are looking to create an entirely new market. Anyone who flies around in a mid-large business jet doesn't relax happy in the knowledge that they have saved money over travelling business class. Cost simply isn't an issue for them - time, comfort, independence and show are more likely driving factors.
Blink's market appears to be middle-management businessmen and budding entrepreneurs who would normally travel business class but have become disillusioned with the current loco airline model and oppressive security checks at the larger airports. That, added to the convenience of travelling when they want to and arriving at an airport closer to their ultimate destination whislt being treated with a modicum of respect for a similar cost to airline travel makes a compelling case for an operation such as Blink.
I think that the biggest hurdle for Blink in the short term will be the looming recession and a need for shareholders to see executives at least making an effort at a little belt-tightening; hopefully the money men at Blink saw that one coming and have set aside enough to weather the storm, if it hits.
I genuinely wish Blink all the luck in the World. Anyone with balls that big deserves to succeed.
I think that Blink are looking to create an entirely new market. Anyone who flies around in a mid-large business jet doesn't relax happy in the knowledge that they have saved money over travelling business class. Cost simply isn't an issue for them - time, comfort, independence and show are more likely driving factors.
Blink's market appears to be middle-management businessmen and budding entrepreneurs who would normally travel business class but have become disillusioned with the current loco airline model and oppressive security checks at the larger airports. That, added to the convenience of travelling when they want to and arriving at an airport closer to their ultimate destination whislt being treated with a modicum of respect for a similar cost to airline travel makes a compelling case for an operation such as Blink.
I think that the biggest hurdle for Blink in the short term will be the looming recession and a need for shareholders to see executives at least making an effort at a little belt-tightening; hopefully the money men at Blink saw that one coming and have set aside enough to weather the storm, if it hits.
I genuinely wish Blink all the luck in the World. Anyone with balls that big deserves to succeed.
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If the Mustang was cheaper than existing or better than aircraft already available I would completely agree with you. However they seem to be more expensive than the ce550 and C525's.
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aprune said, with Highflight agreement
[QUOTE]think that Blink are looking to create an entirely new market. Anyone who flies around in a mid-large business jet doesn't relax happy in the knowledge that they have saved money over travelling business class. Cost simply isn't an issue for them - time, comfort, independence and show are more likely driving factors.
Blink's market appears to be middle-management businessmen and budding entrepreneurs who would normally travel business class but have become disillusioned with the current loco airline model and oppressive security checks at the larger airports. That, added to the convenience of travelling when they want to and arriving at an airport closer to their ultimate destination whislt being treated with a modicum of respect for a similar cost to airline travel makes a compelling case for an operation such as Blink.
[/QUOTE]
How is that "an entirely new market" ? Every Biz Jet, or fractional ownership operator sings the same song.
The point being, that the shiny brochure may convince some investors, but a bit of research shows that the market is fairly well covered already. Add to this the general economic downturn around the world, and Mr middle management will be TOLD by Mr CEO to go scheduled. The safe future for the Biz Jet market is the high nett worth individual, who will be more than happy to pay a bit more for a more spacious cabin, a proper toilet, and not having to do a tech stop because there is more than 3 of them.
I think Phil is spot on, there will be a lot of marketing, and a lot of interest in the honeymoon period, but ultimately, Blink will either have to downsize it's ambitions, or dump rates to get market share.
highflight - it may sound negative, but it is just the reality of the situation as seen by people already in the industry. Lets face it, if it was that easy, then everyone would be doing it.
Business class ticket ex LCY to GVA with Swiss (good product) £550 open return. So £1650 for 3 pax. How much on a mustang?
[QUOTE]think that Blink are looking to create an entirely new market. Anyone who flies around in a mid-large business jet doesn't relax happy in the knowledge that they have saved money over travelling business class. Cost simply isn't an issue for them - time, comfort, independence and show are more likely driving factors.
Blink's market appears to be middle-management businessmen and budding entrepreneurs who would normally travel business class but have become disillusioned with the current loco airline model and oppressive security checks at the larger airports. That, added to the convenience of travelling when they want to and arriving at an airport closer to their ultimate destination whislt being treated with a modicum of respect for a similar cost to airline travel makes a compelling case for an operation such as Blink.
[/QUOTE]
How is that "an entirely new market" ? Every Biz Jet, or fractional ownership operator sings the same song.
The point being, that the shiny brochure may convince some investors, but a bit of research shows that the market is fairly well covered already. Add to this the general economic downturn around the world, and Mr middle management will be TOLD by Mr CEO to go scheduled. The safe future for the Biz Jet market is the high nett worth individual, who will be more than happy to pay a bit more for a more spacious cabin, a proper toilet, and not having to do a tech stop because there is more than 3 of them.
I think Phil is spot on, there will be a lot of marketing, and a lot of interest in the honeymoon period, but ultimately, Blink will either have to downsize it's ambitions, or dump rates to get market share.
highflight - it may sound negative, but it is just the reality of the situation as seen by people already in the industry. Lets face it, if it was that easy, then everyone would be doing it.
Business class ticket ex LCY to GVA with Swiss (good product) £550 open return. So £1650 for 3 pax. How much on a mustang?
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I would say 3500 pounds (estimation).
But don't forget the wasted time cost (at least 3 h in the airport) based on the pax's cost of time. In addition, blink flights are more flexible, confidential, and can reach destinations that scheduled flights can't.
If you need to go to Sion from LCY, total costs would be very different with the airline.
They are creating pilot jobs, so what is wrong with that ?
But don't forget the wasted time cost (at least 3 h in the airport) based on the pax's cost of time. In addition, blink flights are more flexible, confidential, and can reach destinations that scheduled flights can't.
If you need to go to Sion from LCY, total costs would be very different with the airline.
They are creating pilot jobs, so what is wrong with that ?
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3 hours at the airport - At LCY you can walk in, buy your ticket, check in, go through security, have a beer, and be departing within 45 mins of parking your car. Ditto at GVA.
Just done the figures, and i reckon the mustang would need a tech stop with 3 x 90Kg males. mmmmmmmmm...........and i can save £2000.
If I am rich enough to go to Sion on a Biz Jet (probably going skiing), why would I want to tech stop on the way.....ah yes, that's right, coz I need a pee !
Just done the figures, and i reckon the mustang would need a tech stop with 3 x 90Kg males. mmmmmmmmm...........and i can save £2000.
If I am rich enough to go to Sion on a Biz Jet (probably going skiing), why would I want to tech stop on the way.....ah yes, that's right, coz I need a pee !
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£3500???
The landing fees alone are approx £1500. 1200 per hour for the aircraft @ 320knts, makes 3.6 hours from and back to FAB. £5,800.
If Mr Middle manager is worth that extra cost for that few hours I would be very surprised.
Phil
The landing fees alone are approx £1500. 1200 per hour for the aircraft @ 320knts, makes 3.6 hours from and back to FAB. £5,800.
If Mr Middle manager is worth that extra cost for that few hours I would be very surprised.
Phil
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Skis will fit into the rear baggage compartment.
If some of you guys are relying on keeping your high end jobs just because the rich are on a roll at the moment than I would say that was a little bit dodgy,yes plenty of biz jets ordered by a large proportion of Russians I might add, but who wants to live in Moscow,certainly not me.Me thinks to many of you have been in the business for too short a time to not remember financial downturns in the past when looking for a job in flight was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Blink to my knowledge intend to bring Business type flying to a larger market,in particular companies who would not previously cost wise use private jets for salaried staff lower down the pecking order.
This aircraft sips fuel and whether your rich or not, care about the environment and your childrens future or couldn't give a bugger there are all sorts of issues that will come into play and make this aircraft atractive to a certain market.Its not long haul its a short range close European aircraft flying on average 2.5 pax,I'm sure they have investigated their market well before taking millions of pounds off their investors.I fly one of the largest cabin exec aircraft and regularly have no more than two or three people on short European trips,it doesn't always sit very comfortably with me,it's costly not required and will increasingly become unacceptable to those of us who fly these things around but have an eye on the future of our children and the planet.
flynowpaylater
Very apt user name by the way if your employ it in the environmental sense.Have you tried to get to London City recently by anything other than a helicopter.I've never been able to get there in less than 3 hours and I don't live a million miles away.
As regards everyone doing it, they don't that's why we fly aircraft and a small number of individuals sit in the back in luxury having had the ideas.I'm no better I thought LOCO airlines wouldn't last five minutes,how wrong was I.
If some of you guys are relying on keeping your high end jobs just because the rich are on a roll at the moment than I would say that was a little bit dodgy,yes plenty of biz jets ordered by a large proportion of Russians I might add, but who wants to live in Moscow,certainly not me.Me thinks to many of you have been in the business for too short a time to not remember financial downturns in the past when looking for a job in flight was like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Blink to my knowledge intend to bring Business type flying to a larger market,in particular companies who would not previously cost wise use private jets for salaried staff lower down the pecking order.
This aircraft sips fuel and whether your rich or not, care about the environment and your childrens future or couldn't give a bugger there are all sorts of issues that will come into play and make this aircraft atractive to a certain market.Its not long haul its a short range close European aircraft flying on average 2.5 pax,I'm sure they have investigated their market well before taking millions of pounds off their investors.I fly one of the largest cabin exec aircraft and regularly have no more than two or three people on short European trips,it doesn't always sit very comfortably with me,it's costly not required and will increasingly become unacceptable to those of us who fly these things around but have an eye on the future of our children and the planet.
flynowpaylater
Very apt user name by the way if your employ it in the environmental sense.Have you tried to get to London City recently by anything other than a helicopter.I've never been able to get there in less than 3 hours and I don't live a million miles away.
As regards everyone doing it, they don't that's why we fly aircraft and a small number of individuals sit in the back in luxury having had the ideas.I'm no better I thought LOCO airlines wouldn't last five minutes,how wrong was I.
Last edited by Highflight420; 14th Mar 2008 at 14:15.
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Highflight.
Listen carefully....they are not more cost effective than existing options. They cost more than existing light jets.
This will not open up private travel to people who currently don't use it based on price BECAUSE THEY COST MORE.
Can you take Heli's into LCY?
You continue to compare these new composite jets to the concept of Lo-Co's. Why? there is no cost saving from using them? At least Stellios gave us worse service at a better price. This concept just gives a worse aircraft at more money? Am I missing something?
Listen carefully....they are not more cost effective than existing options. They cost more than existing light jets.
This will not open up private travel to people who currently don't use it based on price BECAUSE THEY COST MORE.
Can you take Heli's into LCY?
You continue to compare these new composite jets to the concept of Lo-Co's. Why? there is no cost saving from using them? At least Stellios gave us worse service at a better price. This concept just gives a worse aircraft at more money? Am I missing something?
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Ah Phil - you beat me to it!! Heli's at LCY 
Current charter rates on the Mustang are, I can confirm, more or less the same as a CJ1. The benefit therefore is.........?
Current charter rates on the Mustang are, I can confirm, more or less the same as a CJ1. The benefit therefore is.........?
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The benefit is a newer aircraft. If the Blink guys are right then the obvious disadvantages of the design will be accepted by the majority due to the draw of newer aircraft.
Going off the subject a bit, is Blink going to be having different costs for end users and brokers?
Phil
Going off the subject a bit, is Blink going to be having different costs for end users and brokers?
Phil
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Well with great respect to yourself and at the risk of sounding arrogant and I know I have already been accused of that,yes you are Phil.
They are seeking to establish a new idea in an existing market,I can understand established operators like yourself taking umberance at my stance but once agian I have to say why so much negativity towards a new start up that may or may not succeed,you all seem to think there is plenty of work around or is that where the gripes arise in that you don't want to see a new kid on your patch.
Two young men have got together come up with what they think is a new slant on an existing market and intend to give it a shot,providing new pilot jobs as they expand.Time alone will tell whether your right and they are wrong or vice versa buts let drop this famous English trait of knocking everything and everyone that comes along with a new idea,surely we can all be a little bit more grown up and wish them every success.
They are seeking to establish a new idea in an existing market,I can understand established operators like yourself taking umberance at my stance but once agian I have to say why so much negativity towards a new start up that may or may not succeed,you all seem to think there is plenty of work around or is that where the gripes arise in that you don't want to see a new kid on your patch.
Two young men have got together come up with what they think is a new slant on an existing market and intend to give it a shot,providing new pilot jobs as they expand.Time alone will tell whether your right and they are wrong or vice versa buts let drop this famous English trait of knocking everything and everyone that comes along with a new idea,surely we can all be a little bit more grown up and wish them every success.
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"In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king"
Very true statement, but, why is the one eyed man in the land of the blind in the first place?
So, the land of the blind is the current market place of biz jet operators, and the one eyed man........blinked....and missed the point entirely.
Very true statement, but, why is the one eyed man in the land of the blind in the first place?
So, the land of the blind is the current market place of biz jet operators, and the one eyed man........blinked....and missed the point entirely.
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Highflight,
What I am missing is - what is the new idea, what is the new slant. Private aircraft from A to B. Please don't tell me the idea is that the cost will make it available to middle management because it is not true.
I don't take umberance to anything, apart from the fact that you seem to have no knowledge of the marketplace and yet are adamant that you are right.
What I am missing is - what is the new idea, what is the new slant. Private aircraft from A to B. Please don't tell me the idea is that the cost will make it available to middle management because it is not true.
I don't take umberance to anything, apart from the fact that you seem to have no knowledge of the marketplace and yet are adamant that you are right.
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Just an observation Phil, and no offence intended, but you spend a lot of time on Pprune during the working day don't you. Maybe your company is not that busy or, you don't do much during a normal working day !!
Now, I wonder if TAG are fully behind this Blink concept or will they just pull the AOC from this operation like they did on another operator not so long ago ??
Now, I wonder if TAG are fully behind this Blink concept or will they just pull the AOC from this operation like they did on another operator not so long ago ??
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Fantastic topic !
Flynowpaylater, how can you spend less than 3 hours in the airport on a return trip ? Checking in and out, security, waiting for luggages ?
Seems you've never come to GVA (this is where I'm currently sitting
so I have good Idea of how long it takes).
Instead of gossiping like old ladies, you'd better send a quotation request to get the real info, and if you need a pee stop between LCY and GVA, it might be the right time to go and check your prostate
.
What about waiting and see what will happen ? In the worse case, some pilots would be really happy to get a job and a new experience, even if it's not for long. I'm French, and I never could imagine people with more negative visions than ours
This business model is a direct competitor to the fractional one (who could believe it would work in the past ?), and I wish them a lot of success. I would also enjoy to join the team.
Flynowpaylater, how can you spend less than 3 hours in the airport on a return trip ? Checking in and out, security, waiting for luggages ?
Seems you've never come to GVA (this is where I'm currently sitting
so I have good Idea of how long it takes).Instead of gossiping like old ladies, you'd better send a quotation request to get the real info, and if you need a pee stop between LCY and GVA, it might be the right time to go and check your prostate
.What about waiting and see what will happen ? In the worse case, some pilots would be really happy to get a job and a new experience, even if it's not for long. I'm French, and I never could imagine people with more negative visions than ours
This business model is a direct competitor to the fractional one (who could believe it would work in the past ?), and I wish them a lot of success. I would also enjoy to join the team.