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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

machtuk 3rd Sep 2021 05:15


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11105469)
You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.


You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)

43Inches 3rd Sep 2021 05:23

England uses two methods of counting Covid deaths, PHE uses the 28 day list, to rapidly estimate numbers and ONS which is measured from actual data such as death certificates and such. PHE you must have tested positive to be included in the estimate regardless of certificate notice. At the early stages there was no time frame on PHE data, which recently caused it to blow out in numbers so they restricted it to 28 days and 60 days dependent on other factors. When compared to ONS data the PHE data is within 25%, as I stated earlier. So the documented death data and mortality statistics are definitely similar, anything beyond a few weeks old is going to be corrected by ONS data. The gov data has adjusted the statistics to show the 28 day data, but if you click on that the ONS data is readily available to reference.

Prior to the 28 day limit the real death rate was somewhere between ONS and PHE, after the limit the actual numbers are said to be slightly higher than both.


You are wasting yr time dealing with '43' he's a prolific rapid fire poster on a mission spending a huge chunk of his life in fear and trying to support it, makes for amusing reading if not at times boring reading though -)
Happy you bothered to mention me, and wasted some of your time, BTW I have no fear of covid, fully vaxxed and happily wandering around even in areas full of it. I'm just trying to reason with the concrete girders that have formed between some ears who continue to quote rubbish and use information that is obviously wrong.

But keep posting you really do amuse me, and my small mind.

PS, one thing that really does confuse me, can you actually debate anything, or are you not smart enough to actually contribute and not just stir the pot on occasion when you get angry and want to launch a sarcastic remark in a passive aggressive manner by pretending to talk to another poster? Its sort of a mark of a person with low self confidence and worth that you cant back your own agenda with your own information.

minigundiplomat 3rd Sep 2021 07:46

Sorry 43,

meant to respond earlier but I have a life and I didn’t want to spend it on PPrune anymore than I wanted to live in fear.

Have a good weekend - spread some fear or whatever makes you feel worthwhile.

43Inches 3rd Sep 2021 08:20

Not sure why I would spend all day on a forum, when I can pop in and out throughout the day and peruse what floof has been posted and fire off a quick reply.

In anycase I have done nothing but point out where the statistics come from. If you find the UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) and what they do scary and live in fear of them, I'm truly sorry. I suppose some people are afraid of numbers and letters for some reason, it's quite obvious some can not interpret them clearly. :E

StallsDeep 3rd Sep 2021 09:28

I must be a sucker for punishment because I find myself tuning in everyday to hear what Gladys has to say. Someone behind the scenes has managed to convince her that cases will peak in the next fortnight, and it didn’t in even pass the gross error test in her head. The NSW curve is just beginning, and even with 70% of the adult population vaccinated that still leaves 1.6 million people in greater Sydney of which the virus can rip through. The strain on the already overwhelmed hospitals will be immense.

I was thinking today perhaps an increase to the tax rate for non essential workers still able to work (mostly those working from home) to subsidise a properly distributed and revamped job keeper might be fairer on those of us unable to continue operating. Something like a 60% flat tax ought to do it.

Foxxster 3rd Sep 2021 10:57


Originally Posted by StallsDeep (Post 11105581)
I must be a sucker for punishment because I find myself tuning in everyday to hear what Gladys has to say. Someone behind the scenes has managed to convince her that cases will peak in the next fortnight, and it didn’t in even pass the gross error test in her head. The NSW curve is just beginning, and even with 70% of the adult population vaccinated that still leaves 1.6 million people in greater Sydney of which the virus can rip through. The strain on the already overwhelmed hospitals will be immense.

I was thinking today perhaps an increase to the tax rate for non essential workers still able to work (mostly those working from home) to subsidise a properly distributed and revamped job keeper might be fairer on those of us unable to continue operating. Something like a 60% flat tax ought to do it.


perhaps a new tax on all those recently sold Sydney properties. And of course future sales. Investment property or not.

exmexican 3rd Sep 2021 11:08

Sounds like a while since you were on a farm! Plenty of backpackers operating big harvesting machinery in all areas. Your description of neighbours working in teams sounds idyllic, but not widely adopted in modern times. With many farms using multiple harvesters or contract harvest operators, the owner is more likely to be found coordinating the process, marketing grain, and filling in where needed. Some smaller farms don’t even own a harvester. Too much $$$ siting in the shed for 10-11 months of the year. That said, your description reminds me of my late teens on our small family farm. Big brother in the harvester, the only vehicle with aircon, Dad moving bins and support equipment, and me hammering down dusty track getting as many 8 tonne truckloads in to the local silo as I could!

rattman 3rd Sep 2021 19:16


Originally Posted by exmexican (Post 11105627)
Sounds like a while since you were on a farm! Plenty of backpackers operating big harvesting machinery in all areas. Your description of neighbours working in teams sounds idyllic, but not widely adopted in modern times. With many farms using multiple harvesters or contract harvest operators, the owner is more likely to be found coordinating the process, marketing grain, and filling in where needed. Some smaller farms don’t even own a harvester. Too much $$$ siting in the shed for 10-11 months of the year. That said, your description reminds me of my late teens on our small family farm. Big brother in the harvester, the only vehicle with aircon, Dad moving bins and support equipment, and me hammering down dusty track getting as many 8 tonne truckloads in to the local silo as I could!

Its more the unskilled parts, like any sort of picking where they are used to imported labor that they have been able to exploit / scam for years. Now with the backpacker shortage farms / industry that have rep for fair employment are taking all the small pool of australians willing to work these jobs. I am doing banana's this year and got a good offer from a mango company thats desperate to get some guaranteed staff, but damn I hate mango's. The big harvesting contractors are considered essential workers and having minimal issues getting through borders

Ladloy 4th Sep 2021 22:02

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?

chookcooker 4th Sep 2021 22:37


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11106259)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?

Acting Premier Jeremy Rockliff, who is also the Health Minister, stressed that Tasmania would continue to follow the national plan, "but we want to ensure that every single person has the opportunity to be vaccinated in Tasmania".”

from the article YOU posted


JustinHeywood 4th Sep 2021 22:43


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11106259)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-...rate/100431784

Tasmania aiming to open at 90%. Where is the criticism from the feds and the murdoch press?

Bizarre isn't it?

Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.

dr dre 4th Sep 2021 23:37


Originally Posted by JustinHeywood (Post 11106269)
Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.

Quotes from the Tasmanian Health Minister and Acting Premier on when they see the reopening happening?

Ladloy 5th Sep 2021 00:01


Originally Posted by chookcooker (Post 11106267)
“Acting Premier Jeremy Rockliff, who is also the Health Minister, stressed that Tasmania would continue to follow the national plan, "but we want to ensure that every single person has the opportunity to be vaccinated in Tasmania".”

from the article YOU posted

"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber if made by a health minister in WA, Vic or QLD.



Originally Posted by JustinHeywood (Post 11106269)
Yeah, better stick to the ABC then mate, it’ll tell you what you want to hear.


The article has a direct quote from the health minister in Tasmania. Not an analysis or an opinion piece, it is actually a direct report

chookcooker 5th Sep 2021 00:03


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11106290)
"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber

Not if, unlike you, they can read.

dr dre 5th Sep 2021 00:30


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11106290)
"I don't think I can give a precise answer to that [the figure for reopening borders], but the higher the better, and the closer to 90 per cent that's achievable, the better," he said.

That comment would boil the blood of 90% of the PPRUNE echo chamber if made by a health minister in WA, Vic or QLD.

The NT announced at 80% they’ll only consider moving the quarantined out of Howard Springs into home detention, hardly any extra freedom there, and the Chief Minister has said the wants more than 80% vaxxed to protect the indigenous in the Territory. SA said they’d look at “nuanced” arrangements post 80% and may still lockout individual LGAs from entry. The ACT wants “well over 80%” vaccinated. WA said once they get to 80% it’d be a gap of about 6 weeks to have a final chance for any stragglers to get a shot. Queensland may have the least clear messaging with suggestion they want kids, then maybe not, who knows. Then Tasmania came out and said they would prefer closer to 90% vaxxed. Victoria is too concerned with their own problems to really think about reopening to the rest.

So in reality it isn’t going to be a free for all the day the average vax rate hits 80%, every other State or Territory has indicated their reopening will be more staggered, more gradual than the “let it rip” idea some seem to think it will be.


Xeptu 5th Sep 2021 01:27

I think even Gladys is wishful thinking now, NSW ICU will be at capacity in a week and that's double the capacity of any other state. How does she figure the peak will be in two weeks when the numbers are still rising.

SOPS 5th Sep 2021 02:19


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11106307)
I think even Gladys is wishful thinking now, NSW ICU will be at capacity in a week and that's double the capacity of any other state. How does she figure the peak will be in two weeks when the numbers are still rising.

The Gold Standard Girl, took some really bad advice from whoever told her that it would all be getting better in 2 weeks. Probably the same person that told her not to lock down after the first case.

galdian 5th Sep 2021 02:54


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11106311)
The Gold Standard Girl, took some really bad advice from whoever told her that it would all be getting better in 2 weeks. Probably the same person that told her not to lock down after the first case.

Well when Victoria last year was in lockdown and NSW wasn't she WAS Gold Standard.

Amazes me the number of people who can't have an overview but, more importantly, dredge up the past just to have a whinge and a pissing contest; the future can only be directed by what is happening now and the actions that will be taken tomorrow and ongoing.
I would have thought the future was more important, to too many apparently not.

Much as I dislike Andrews credit where due - he's now admitting Covid Zero is impossible, what actions will follow time will tell but at least the basis has been reset to something realistic.
Whilst up north the incumbent Premier - with a 10+ seat majority and no election for 3+ years - is playing politics about borders which may lead some to delay having vaccinations, when Delta does hit be interesting to see how she deflects criticism about those who get Delta, who were sicker than they should have been, who ended up in hospital or ICU or died - when it need not have happened, or at least been lessened, with vaccination.

43Inches 5th Sep 2021 03:18

I disagree that there was ever any gold standard, there was luck last year that it didn't spread or start in the high population density suburbs. Melbourne got it in the west among the working population that spread it around town and got into the aged care facilities before they had procedures and standards to deal with covid.

This year the NSW government was pretty much negligent in the way it handled Delta. One month before NSW got its first case they were laughing at Victorias lockdown and calling Sutton the Vic CHO incompetent for suggesting Delta was far more transmissable and that they just had no idea. Sutton had suggested that only casual contact was required rather than the full 20 minute exposure that had been the case with the earlier strain. It was quite clear that NSW was playing politics in avoiding a lockdown and throwing mud at the Andrews gov at the same time. When they got the first case, they stubbornly held out to avoid immediate embarrassment that they had to lockdown also, and well, we all know how that went. And what else did they have to warn them, maybe the data from the rest of the world about Delta as well....

So when a lot of us criticise Gladys and co it's for good reason, we may well have been open and operating close to normal had NSW followed Vics advice rather than playing politics. BTW prior to NSW going ballistic with numbers Scomo was also agitating against lockdows, suddenly after NSW lost the plot he about faced and makes a speech that lockdowns are necessary until vaccinated.

CaptCloudbuster 5th Sep 2021 03:44

Who needs the borders open anyhow when we have a “State Daddy” to worship on Fathers Day?


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