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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

WingNut60 2nd Sep 2021 13:33


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11105045)
I believe 80% double dosed is sensible as I'm sure all the leaders do regardless of what they say publicly. We know the worst thing you can do is allow people to count down the days to freedom day. Not only is it crushing it's dangerous, it's most likely the reason VIC has lost control of it, someone's spreading it.

All I really want to see is that those in the food bowl and particularly the wheat belt right across across the country into western NSW, are vaccinated. Most are not, they are miles from anywhere and when they come to town you better be ready with that vaccine, or get it to them. Harvest from NOV, if it gets into those communities, it's all over, there will be more to worry about than open borders and freedoms.

We can organise a booze bus to out into the country areas but the concept of a large mobile vaccination clinic seems to be beyond common comprehension.

Xeptu 2nd Sep 2021 14:02

I really worry about it, they really need to be vaccinated now, there are a few that happen to be within a couple of hundred k's from a major centres vax'd but any further out than that are not. For WA about Narrogin to Norseman, then from SA Streaky right across to Griffith NSW, big area. I fear the Nation will be in deep crisis by then. They just don't seem to understand the magnitude of those logistics and the ones that do are too busy with the Cities problems. It's going to be a clusterf#%k.

SHVC 2nd Sep 2021 19:29


Originally Posted by StallsDeep (Post 11105160)
Gladys sounds like she’s accepting an Oscar every time she holds a press conference. If she thanks enough people it just might seem like she’s doing a good job. Noticed she’s been saying “died with covid” lately

Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.

sherburn2LA 2nd Sep 2021 20:37

Life in the penal colonies


rattman 2nd Sep 2021 22:11


Originally Posted by Xeptu (Post 11105073)
Yeah that's the wheat belt. We don't use imported labour, it's Farmers working with Farmers. $8B over 6 weeks. What you're talking about are the fruit growers, they have always used imported workers, Australians (city people) won't do it, too busy going to the beach. Market Gardens are closer to the cities and operate all year round, that's your tomatoes, potatoes, anything that's pulled out of the ground.

Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.



43Inches 2nd Sep 2021 23:18


Farmers got used to scamming backpackers for WHV extensions now suddenly its wont someone think of the farmers.
Not all farmers, just some, like other parts of the community there are some that take advantage of everything cheap thinking it's best. I know a few other fruit growers that pay top dollar during picking season to ensure fruit is harvested quickly and in good condition, and they employ repeat pickers that come every season as they are reliable, some from the city. It's not easy work, but rewarding financially for those that do the job well and work for the right employer. The other option is to not care about quality and just employ cheap as possible, which is usually a sign of poor business acumen.

Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.

Xeptu 2nd Sep 2021 23:39


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11104980)
No, it does not. His CHO testified under oath that the WA health system is capable of handling 5,000 Covid cases, with, IIRC, 500 per day increase - and that was a year ago!

It should be noted that this was before or around the time our ICU techs were in VIC roughly 60% of them between WA and SA. These will not be infected a second time and that hasn't got anything to do with the health system or government in either state. Both states are aware they do know that.

Xeptu 2nd Sep 2021 23:51


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11105412)
Harvest is no different, you want the right people operating millions of dollars of machinery in combination with millions of dollars of crops. Harvest at the wrong time, wrong moisture etc etc etc, you could lose tons of yield. Hit rocks, posts etc in afield with a combine, not only the damage bill, but the loss of work/harvest while the vehicle is repaired.

The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.

I have a satellite photo somewhere of the wheat belt in harvest at night somewhere, it looks like the busiest place on earth

Foxxster 3rd Sep 2021 00:05


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11105344)
Thisjusbthe way it should have always been reported. Someone dying Tuesday afternoon then announcing the cause at 11am Wednesday morning. A lot of deaths that shouldn’t had been have been “caused” by covid.

The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.

43Inches 3rd Sep 2021 00:14


The Wheat Belt, Wheat, Sheep, Wool, Feed Stock (hay) we would never use backpackers, the farmer (owner) is always the header operator and the neighbouring farmers operate the chase vehicles and silo runs. It's flat out almost non stop busiest time of the year.
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.


The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions.
The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.

Xeptu 3rd Sep 2021 00:36


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11105426)
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.

There will be plenty of jobs, these are employed by Grain Corp, they operate the weight bridge, silos, this is when the virus is most likely to get in and spread. It would be catastrophic.

minigundiplomat 3rd Sep 2021 00:45


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11105426)
Wool/feed can be forgiving but as you know Wheat/grain don't wait for anyone, delay the harvest, lose yield. There is still a lot of advertising (right now) for general hands to help out, marshaling etc. Imagine if your header operator gets tested positive for covid a week before harvest, not good, while it is an isolated job in itself would they even be fit to drive especially if older. I know some that would want the ventilator fitted to the cab so they could still harvest.



The UK mortality stats had the the difference as "due" to covid being 75% of cases "with" covid so it's not a huge difference, just take 25% off death rates and you will be close. The "with" covid stat still has to be covid as a causal factor, not the overall cause of death, which could be multiple things, again understanding how deaths are recorded needs to be understood. If the patient died and it had nothing to do with covid at all, but they had covid in their system, covid will not be on the factors list. For instance, "patient decapitated by sword, massive trauma to neck area", even if they had severe covid, that would not be listed as a covid related death.

If the patient could have survived but covid possibly affected their recovery then it gets listed as "with" covid. IF they reattached the patients head and they were recovering, but then Covid killed them via a lung infection then it would become "due" to covid.

Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.

43Inches 3rd Sep 2021 00:56


Complete BS - UK fatality stats included anyone who died within 28 days of testing positive, irrespective of cause or nature of their death.
You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest


3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021


The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide.

Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.

We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".

Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see
Section 8 of the methodology article.

Xeptu 3rd Sep 2021 01:09


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 11105425)
The chief health officer was asked about this around a week ago. She answered that in many cases it was impossible to tell whether WuHu flu killed them or other conditions. So they die WITH WuHu flu not because of it. So the daily death list, which is getting really boring and should be dropped is people who die WITH WuHu flu not necessarily FROM it.

Although that doesn’t get mentioned as it is bad politics when the idea is to scare people into getting vaccinated.

and before people jump in, I am all for vaccinations and have had both mine. But that is what is playing out to get the masses done.

To be honest when I look at how we are travelling, I'm only interested in those that were infected, known to be suffering symptoms and died under the age of 70

minigundiplomat 3rd Sep 2021 03:40


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11105434)
You do know how stupid that sounds right, and the numbers would be 10 times higher if that were the case, as with the US. The numbers would be 1000s per day right now if someone that had just tested positive with covid in the last 28 days was also listed as a covid death related. Car crashes, cancer patients, heart attack victims would all be classified with covid, just due to how many have covid in those countries, its not like Australia where we have tiny case numbers. The mortality statistics for the UK has exact process of what is included or not, hence why the 75% statement I made earlier.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest




https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/mobi.../idUSKBN29J2TH




43Inches 3rd Sep 2021 03:48

I'll just re-post the same thing as you are quoting Reuters over the actual people who compile the data,

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...ndwales/latest


[size=13px]3.Deaths due to COVID-19 registered in July 2021[/size]



The doctor certifying a death can list all causes in the chain of events that led to the death, and pre-existing conditions that may have contributed to the death. Using this information, we determine an underlying cause of death. More information on this process can be found in our user guide.

Since March 2020 (when the first deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) were registered in England and Wales), where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate it was the underlying cause of death in most cases (88.9% in England, 87.3% in Wales). In July 2021, COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death for 83.5% of deaths that mentioned COVID-19 on the death certificate in England and 80.5% in Wales. For more information on our definition of COVID-19 deaths, see Section 10: Measuring the data.
Quote:
We use the term "due to COVID-19" when referring only to deaths with an underlying cause of death of COVID-19. When taking into account all of the deaths that had COVID-19 mentioned anywhere on the death certificate, whether as an underlying cause or not, we use the term "involving COVID-19".

Our definition of COVID-19 (regardless of whether it was the underlying cause or mentioned elsewhere on the death certificate) includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain (U07.2). For example, a doctor may have clinically diagnosed COVID-19 based on symptoms, but this diagnosis may not have been confirmed with a test. Of the 125,684 deaths due to COVID-19, 4,015 (3.2%) were classified as "suspected" COVID-19. Including all 141,519 deaths involving COVID-19, "suspected" COVID-19 was recorded on 3.2% (4,594 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19 in England and Wales. For more information on the ICD-10 definition of COVID-19, see
Section 8 of the methodology article.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN29J2TH

Did you actually read what that article says?

It's a fact check on that headline and the outcome at the bottom says it finds the headline as false.... so I'm not sure why you posted something that says what you are asserting is false anyway.

minigundiplomat 3rd Sep 2021 03:55

You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive positive test as COVID. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.

43Inches 3rd Sep 2021 03:59


You can requote whatever you want if it tells the story you want, Champ. Up until the back end of 2020 the UK was classing any death within 28 days of a positive Covid test as positive. I can also link the Public Health England paper if you wish.

You only seem happy to quote anything that supports your hypothesis that the sky is falling in, Chicken Little.

Weak thinking, weak arguments and fearful rhetoric - a life filled with fear isn’t living mate. People die everyday, sad as it is.

People shouldn’t be watching their mental health and livelihoods swirl down the gurgler because you want to live forever.
You seem to forget you just posted a link to a story that fact checked your own line and said it was false, you obviously are not even reading your own research well enough let alone be able to judge any other opinions.

You better stop thinking before that bean of yours implodes.

The 28 and 60 day cutoffs are made to exclude outliers to get better ideas when estimating numbers.


A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case, unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma).
That is the definition most are working with and the cut-off (28 days) was implemented to avoid over estimations.

Cirressna 3rd Sep 2021 04:55

Try the government website

StudentInDebt 3rd Sep 2021 05:09

It seems there a difference between how NHS England records deaths with a COVID positive result and how the ONS records them. Since the NHS figures only include deaths in hospital, they are generally lower than the ONS figures. Lots of fun reading on the PHE methodology for those with time on their hands available at https://www.gov.uk/government/public...hnical-summary


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