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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

43Inches 26th Aug 2021 03:38

Again just an argument in semantics.

The problem with aged care is the casualised part of their workforce. The cleaners, cooks, casual carers, etc. These are the ones that travel between sites and move around the entire facility, and are most likely the lowest paid and lowest education level, coming from backgrounds with other casual working family members that congregate in numbers. The professional workforce, ie nurses, doctors, specialists, accountants, marketing, liaisons and management are most likely full or part time and are not the issue. Again even if its just 25% of your workforce is casual and travelling between multiple sites, that's still too much. The facility is only as secure as its weakest link.

I don't know why I needed 4 posts to explain that a Aged care facility is not just a bunch of nurses, I thought that would be obvious.

MickG0105 26th Aug 2021 07:42


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11101417)
I don't know why I needed 4 posts to explain that a Aged care facility is not just a bunch of nurses, I thought that would be obvious.

Possibly because you don't know the meaning of some of the words that you use. If only there was some sort of resource, like a list of words and their meanings, that people could refer to.

MickG0105 26th Aug 2021 08:01


Originally Posted by Lead Balloon (Post 11101415)
And do the data to which you referred distinguish between the workers who spend most of their time in contact with and moving among the aged in their care, on the one hand, and the 'administrators' - for want of a better term - on the other?

Yes, it does. For residential direct care workers (ie workers who spend most of their time in contact with and moving among the aged in their care), 10.1 percent of the workforce was casual or contract.

The breakdown by sub-group was Registered Nurses - 9.8 percent, Enrolled Nurses - 7.8 percent, Personal Care Attendants - 10.8 percent, and Allied Health Workers - 4.8 percent. In 2012 those numbers were 18.7 percent of the direct care workforce was casual or contract; Registered Nurses - 19.4 percent, Enrolled Nurses - 14.8 percent, Personal Care Attendants - 19.5 percent, and Allied Health Workers - 15.1 percent.

And just by the bye, only 4 percent of the direct care workforce had a second job in residential aged care.

Chronic Snoozer 26th Aug 2021 08:09


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11101489)
Possibly because you don't know the meaning of some of the words that you use. If only there was some sort of resource, like a list of words and their meanings, that people could refer to.


43Inches 26th Aug 2021 10:05


Yes, it does. For residential direct care workers (ie workers who spend most of their time in contact with and moving among the aged in their care), 10.1 percent of the workforce was casual or contract.

The breakdown by sub-group was Registered Nurses - 9.8 percent, Enrolled Nurses - 7.8 percent, Personal Care Attendants - 10.8 percent, and Allied Health Workers - 4.8 percent. In 2012 those numbers were 18.7 percent of the direct care workforce was casual or contract; Registered Nurses - 19.4 percent, Enrolled Nurses - 14.8 percent, Personal Care Attendants - 19.5 percent, and Allied Health Workers - 15.1 percent.

And just by the bye, only 4 percent of the direct care workforce had a second job in residential aged care.
This is just silly, at least two aged care facilities the virus spread to via a casual delivery driver, so those figures mean nothing. As I said measuring how many nurses are at a facility does not matter. You are just pulling stats out of your backside to make some weird argument that somehow casual workforce was not involved in the spread. When in Melbourne it was directly responsible for it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...tions/12464302


The Victorian aged care sector is trying to stop casuals from working at a number of different residential homes because, in some cases, staff who were unwell had inadvertently brought the virus into aged care facilities.
By the by, the federal government as I said earlier has actually restricted movement between sites, as they have recognised it as an issue. Basically you have to just work at the site that gives you the most work.


I decided to change tact with the issue,

Aged care is considered highly casualised for a simple reason, the part time positions that 78% of the workforce are on are basically casual conditions (or worse) in a contract. A lot of those contracts guarantee less than 10 hours a week and only exist as they corner the applicant into working casual hours at agreement pay (less than casual rates) rather than casual pay rates. Now maybe I should have used the words quasi-casualisation, but most people involved with the industry refer to it as straight casualisation. The term is used to show a move away from full time positions and the part time positions are actually worse than being on casual rates. Part-timilised workforce doesn't quite sound correct.

MickG0105 26th Aug 2021 12:40


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11101554)
This is just silly, at least two aged care facilities the virus spread to via a casual delivery driver, so those figures mean nothing. As I said measuring how many nurses are at a facility does not matter. You are just pulling stats out of your backside to make some weird argument that somehow casual workforce was not involved in the spread. When in Melbourne it was directly responsible for it.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...tions/12464302



By the by, the federal government as I said earlier has actually restricted movement between sites, as they have recognised it as an issue. Basically you have to just work at the site that gives you the most work.


I decided to change tact with the issue,

Aged care is considered highly casualised for a simple reason, the part time positions that 78% of the workforce are on are basically casual conditions (or worse) in a contract. A lot of those contracts guarantee less than 10 hours a week and only exist as they corner the applicant into working casual hours at agreement pay (less than casual rates) rather than casual pay rates. Now maybe I should have used the words quasi-casualisation, but most people involved with the industry refer to it as straight casualisation. The term is used to show a move away from full time positions and the part time positions are actually worse than being on casual rates. Part-timilised workforce doesn't quite sound correct.

Your original contention was about the "casualised nature of the Aged care workforce". I've demonstrated with verifiable data from a reputable source that the aged care workforce has not been casualised. Don't like the data, come up with something better rather than trying to change the meaning of words.

For fear of stating the blindingly obvious, delivery drivers, casual or otherwise, are not part of the aged care workforce; they're part of the transportation industry workforce.

As to yet another false contention from you, that I've argued that the casual workforce was not involved in spreading COVID-19, I haven't said boo about that. That's just something else you've made up. I commented quite specifically on your patently and demonstrably false contention that the aged care workforce was casualised. It's not. If you're going to trot out misconstrued opinion in the unconditionally declarative form as a fact, expect to be called on it once in a while.

As to your changing tact, I've seen little demonstrated in this exchange. Unless you were looking to change the accepted meaning of another word, I suspect that you meant "tack".

43Inches 26th Aug 2021 12:47

Oops did mean change tack,

However my assertion still stands correct, the nature of the aged care sector is casualised. The part time agreements are casual in nature. So still efectively are casualising the workforce.

minigundiplomat 27th Aug 2021 02:19


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11097097)
Mick, try googling the information. You seem to be proactive at googling statements or reports that support your premise that everything isnít that bad. You are always on here saying how well the economy is going and how things are better than they seem. I call bollocks. There are countless economists online discussing how many businesses are failing. There are equally as many psychologists mentioning how counselling services are out of control. There are countless medical experts telling us that lockdowns are causing people to cancel doctors visits and things like cancer are going undiagnosed. Sure, online shopping, camper van and caravan sales and vehicle sales have skyrocketed. But ask the tourism operators and businesses, the taxi and transport industry and the hotel/motel industry how things are going and itís a different story. Our economy has been broken in half. We have now been saddled with decades more debt. Using rigged stock market prices and inflated house prices as a measure of a strong economy is an absolute false reading.

I would have suggested Mick visits Cairns and tells local businesses owners how well the economy is booming, but I fear it may result in him getting his lights punched out.

I think this thread, in running its course, has highlighted how rooted Australia (and NZ) actually are; there are two distinct groups who are never going to see eye to eye on a major contemporary issue, and I see that also across society.

MickG0105 27th Aug 2021 02:26


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11101883)
I would have suggested Mick visits Cairns and tells local businesses owners how well the economy is booming, but I fear it may result in him getting his lights punched out.

I think this thread, in running its course, has highlighted how rooted Australia (and NZ) actually are; there are two distinct groups who are never going to see eye to eye on a major contemporary issue, and I see that also across society.

For the avoidance of any doubt and further embarrassment to some contributors, I have not said nor argued that the economy is booming. As I pointed out to P377 at the time I hadn't said boo about the performance of the Australian economy other than to simply to state the facts that while the Australian economy shrank in 2020, by Q1-21 the economy had recovered such that it was larger than in Q4-19.

I have family in Cairns, I am well aware of the two-speed economy up there.

But, you know, glass half full - thanks for thinking of me.

Torukmacto 27th Aug 2021 08:43

WA to ban people living there after 2 truck drivers test positive . Premier said itís a tough step to take but best for the state going forward .

SHVC 27th Aug 2021 08:55

Lock down now, go hard McGowen Delta is very deadly and highly virulent squash and crush this virus early.

PoppaJo 27th Aug 2021 09:26

AFL grand final in Cairns or Hobart I say.

machtuk 27th Aug 2021 09:47

Searth YouTube "House bill 4471"
this ought to be good!:}

dr dre 27th Aug 2021 09:58


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11102006)
Searth YouTube "House bill 4471"
this ought to be good!:}

How - we arenít in the US State of Michigan? Australian legislatures arenít controlled by the now crackpot US Republican Party. That bill (that bans mask and vaccine mandates) is doomed to fail in Michigan anyway, so zero chance of anything similar passing in Australia where both major parties support mandates.



minigundiplomat 28th Aug 2021 05:13


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11101972)
Lock down now, go hard McGowen Delta is very deadly and highly virulent squash and crush this virus early.

SHUT THE BORDERÖ.

pithblot 28th Aug 2021 18:10

ICU nurse speaks out
 
This video deals with covid. It has info worth considering.

ICU nurse speaks out

Obba 28th Aug 2021 20:54


Originally Posted by pithblot (Post 11102635)
This video deals with covid. It has info worth considering.

ICU nurse speaks out

Ivermectin is a Parasitic drug. Not a Anti-Viral drug. It is used in humans for parasitic worms, head lice etc. More commonly used on horses.
The FDA is currently doing tests to see its effectiveness with Covid.

Of course it may help Covid symptoms, but it may not...
The Vaccines are NOW are proven to negate or hugely reduce Covid deaths.
There are side effects to any drug.

And still to this day, there is no known cure for any known Virus - including the common cold...



Ladloy 29th Aug 2021 00:32


Originally Posted by pithblot (Post 11102635)
This video deals with covid. It has info worth considering.

ICU nurse speaks out

Definitely not a trusted source of infomation, especially when the other videos are from infowars

dr dre 29th Aug 2021 00:34


Originally Posted by pithblot (Post 11102635)
This video deals with covid. It has info worth considering.

ICU nurse speaks out

Itís a poorly shot video on a camera phone of someone called Nicole, first name given only, who claims to be an ICU Nurse and cries ďweíre all being lied to!Ē and tells us to watch the JRE podcast for ďthe truthĒ.

As far as the rubbish Iíve seen from anti-vaxxers in the last 12 months that was one of the worst.

rattman 29th Aug 2021 01:05


Originally Posted by Obba (Post 11102671)
Ivermectin is a Parasitic drug. Not a Anti-Viral drug. It is used in humans for parasitic worms, head lice etc. More commonly used on horses.
The FDA is currently doing tests to see its effectiveness with Covid.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...?ocid=msedgntp


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