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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

KRviator 25th Aug 2021 11:19


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11100977)
The Australian Constitution is largely silent on the matter of restrictions of movement, save for s 92.

Though it does protect you from being penalised based solely on the state in which you live, which would be applicable if it were demonstrable that there is no health basis to the blanket decision. Ie someone in Broken Hill who could fly to Perth via Adelaide is no risk to WA compared to someone at Bondi who has to travel through Sydney. Granted, they now have cases out there, but for argument's sake, if there is no demonstrable risk, then you should not be penalised for it - and that's where WA needs to be careful, I think, as you cannot keep locking out everyone in a state for a handful of cases...


Originally Posted by dr dre
“I’m just keen to have minimal or no COVID”

Okay, we'll us your words if it'll make you happy...But, do tell the rest of us, just how McGowan plans on actually getting "minimal or no" Covid in WA?

Isn't "No Covid" (Your words...) the same as "Zero Covid"?

Originally Posted by The West
Mark McGowan says his “preferred position is that we don’t have COVID” He said the lockdown of NSW showed it’s “better not to have COVID” and he would only abandon borders and lockdowns as virus suppression weapons when Australia reaches the last phase of National Cabinet’s four-step plan out of the pandemic.
"Obviously, if we get cases in here certainly we will have to deal with it but we're doing everything we can to keep it out."

(Zero COVID) is now the accepted position,. People will criticise, I just want to say, ‘Look at our life, look at all this’. People out having lunch, having fun, people at work, the office blocks have got the highest staffing levels back of anywhere in Australia, our schools are operating, our economy is going the strongest in Australia of anywhere in the world — isn’t a good thing?Source


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11101025)
I am amazed that, while NSW festers, so many people are desperate to point out failings that they think they can see in WA and McGowan.

Maybe because Australian's don't like being taken advantage of by smug pricks who won't pull their own weight? It's all fine and dandy for McGowan to have a crack at Gladys and say "You should've locked down earlier!", but perhaps McGowan should've been pulling his weight with incoming passengers and particularly airfreight per capita? Same for Dan, when they screwed the pooch last year, they cancelled all incoming arrivals through Melbourne. Last I looked, Sydney is still taking the vast majority of incoming passengers, with the risk that entails...

He conveniently forgets to mention that NSW handles the majority of both, yet seems content for everyone to reap the benefits of it...

Xeptu 25th Aug 2021 11:21

I think people are just frustrated with the whole Covid issue and want it to be over. I think everyone will pull their heads in as NSW deteriorates and has the entire nations undivided attention.

ExtraShot 25th Aug 2021 11:26


Correct - as the agreement allows.

Actually at Phase C, post 80% vaccination it says:"Exempt vaccinated residents from all domestic restrictions..." - happy to be corrected but I assumed this meant domestic travel restrictions.

dr dre 25th Aug 2021 11:44


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11101028)
Okay, we'll us your words if it'll make you happy...But, do tell the rest of us, just how McGowan plans on actually getting "minimal or no" Covid in WA?

Isn't "No Covid" (Your words...) the same as "Zero Covid"?

Minimal or no Covid - it’s up to interpretation how much you think is “minimal”, but we’re a long way off where the answer will be known.

Reading far too much into it it could even be a comment about the “Disease” of Covid-19, rather than case numbers of the virus. And having “minimal” Covid may mean minimising the amount of disease affecting the health system. But I think that’s reading too much into it and honestly at this stage we’re reading too much into any comments about what’s going to happen post Phase A.


"Obviously, if we get cases in here certainly we will have to deal with it but we're doing everything we can to keep it out."

“(Zero COVID) is now the accepted position,

Seems to be referring to “now”, as in the present day, Phase A. What happens when Phase B/C is reached is a matter for that time, for the moment just need to keep the vaccinated numbers increasing.

There’s some info out there saying that going from Phase C to D would only be a matter of weeks.

Ladloy 25th Aug 2021 13:36


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 11100972)
and there’s the problem. The fool is so focussed on political posturing. If federal labor were in, there’s no way he’d be such a recalcitrant prick. Each way albo even says he supports the reopening plan. Mcgoose will just change the ‘best health advice’ to suit his political agenda.

you don’t need to be clear. You will have as much say in what happens with the borders as I do.

I'm going to take a stab and say the NSW outbreak was the result of political posturing

machtuk 25th Aug 2021 13:51


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11100747)
Well QLD and WA have gone to a new low with their political jargon. QLD closing to NSW, ACT and Vic due hotel quarantine issues, guess they’re not fit to cope with covid and WA canceling and not accepting any NSW residents on compassionate grounds. What a mess Australia is, Americans thought Trump was bad look at Aussie politicians.

I really wish NSW would open up internationally and leave QLD and WA behind to keep their own bubble.


too true, we must look like a bunch of incompetent fools to the rest of the world having one snake with several heads that all need chopping off!

PoppaJo 25th Aug 2021 14:11

The next emergency appears to the be NSW hospital system. Seems to be on borrowed time sadly. Might be the big story of Q4.

Keg 25th Aug 2021 14:44

Must be a very localised thing. A major Sydney hospital close to me had zero Covid patients as at yesterday arvo.

rattman 25th Aug 2021 21:37


Originally Posted by Keg (Post 11101116)
Must be a very localised thing. A major Sydney hospital close to me had zero Covid patients as at yesterday arvo.

Westmead hospital has a covid outbreak there. Outpatient clincs have been moved Quodos(spelling) stadium, emergency cases are being redirected to concord.

The figures I saw a few days ago which are all online at nsw health. They have about 800 ICU bed over the whole state. about 100 are being used for covid and 300 are being used non covid. Apparently its ambulances being hit more atm, the ambulances are having to park up wait for a hours to get the patients into the hospital


At Concord Hospital last night, ambulances redirected from overflowing Westmead queued for hours. With no infrastructure to support COVID delays, Paramedics were given a choice–wait in the confined car space with a confirmed COVID-19 patient, or wait outside in the freezing rain
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...b0c91d1a24cc90

turbantime 25th Aug 2021 21:51

First hand info; overnight Westmead, Napean, Concord and Blacktown were all turning away ambulances. 75% of Concord’s Covid patients arrived in the last 24 hours, all unvaccinated I might add. The dam is bursting. Get vaccinated to protect yourself and the entire health system is the message.
At this rate it won’t be long before we start hearing stories of people dying of other ailments because of not being able to be treated due to hospitals full of Covid patients.

WingNut60 25th Aug 2021 21:54


Originally Posted by machtuk (Post 11101092)
too true, we must look like a bunch of incompetent fools to the rest of the world having one snake with several heads that all need chopping off!

If you think this is unique to Australia then you need to get out more.

If you need examples then please take a look at the individual states of the so-called USA or the provincial premiers of Canada.
Or Boris and Nicola, or ..............................

SOPS 25th Aug 2021 23:01


Originally Posted by turbantime (Post 11101273)
First hand info; overnight Westmead, Napean, Concord and Blacktown were all turning away ambulances. 75% of Concord’s Covid patients arrived in the last 24 hours, all unvaccinated I might add. The dam is bursting. Get vaccinated to protect yourself and the entire health system is the message.
At this rate it won’t be long before we start hearing stories of people dying of other ailments because of not being able to be treated due to hospitals full of Covid patients.

Gold Standard….

Foxxster 25th Aug 2021 23:26

Queensland is going ahead and building a dedicated quarantine centre. I guess they are paying for it themselves as the feds have already said no to it.

oh, and the main reason Queensland is being so tough re border closures and are desperate to keep WuHu flu out is because their health system has been so badly managed and run down that if they had an outbreak like we have in nsw, their hospitals would already be overwhelmed. And not just some, the whole system. But don’t let the truth out. Shhhhh.

601 25th Aug 2021 23:58


too true, we must look like a bunch of incompetent fools to the rest of the world having one snake with several heads that all need chopping off!
At least we only have 7 as against the 52 in the un-United States.

galdian 26th Aug 2021 00:08


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11101300)
Gold Standard….

OK get it, some people will always hate regardless, last year NSW was largely open and free whilst VIC was largely closed, I would have thought a good effort - apparently not for some.
You want to hate/dislike GB, I'll dislike intensely DA for his obvious contempt for the Westminster system and embedded Ministerial responsibility (under which Australia/Victoria operates and from which he receives his considerable stipend), anyone who thinks "creeping assumption" is an acceptable recognition or understanding of Ministerial responsibility should do the majority in Australia a favour and piss off to China where you can discuss controlling the peasants with Xi Jinping to your hearts content.
Please don't return - and please take Chairman Dan with you.:ok:

The Delta variant is obviously CV19 on steroids - yes GB stuffed up BUT if not her someone else would have, the Delta strain cannot be eliminated unless hermit states with absolutely zero travel are created....until that one infected person wanders over the border into the hermit state, coughs on someone and Delta takes hold. Whether the hermit state natives would accept becoming a hermit state - or for how long - be interesting to observe.

If anything rather than dissing GB she should maybe be applauded - by stuffing up so badly she's forced the masses to decide whether ongoing, eternal lockdowns or vaccinations are the way to go. Gave the vaccine numbers/awarness the kick along it needed.
Who knows - maybe a well deserved acknowledgement in the Christmas honours for services to Australia.:eek: :D

Once all those who wish a vaccine are covered things will change, QF will have all staff vaccinated - and VA will have to follow or lose some market, ScoMo will win the election and use sticks/carrots to push forward the "re-opening" of Australia.
The majority of Australians will increasingly question the need for lockdowns once everyone vaccinated, how individual states Premiers deal with the peasant's expectation of "living with covid" will be interesting to observe.

Pleased to have straightened things out for the benefit of all Ppruners. No thanks required! ;)









KRviator 26th Aug 2021 00:14


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11101300)
Gold Standard….

I wouldn't get too cocky...It appears that it took a global pandemic to achieve that in NSW. WA has achieved that without Covid! Could explain why McGowan is so $hit-scared of it getting into WA....

09 Feb 2021 - Why ambulance ramping crisis is compromising patient safety
07 Mar 2021 - WA Election: AMA says WA's health system is heading towards crisis point
07 May 2021 - Another day of chaos at Perth hospitals as pressure in ED ramps up
05 July 2021 - Ambulance ramping leaves RFDS patients stuck in shed for hours
02 Aug 2021 - Ambulance ramping hits another high as unions slam government over hospital safety
05 Aug 2021 - Patient care threatened by ambulance ramping rise at Perth hospitals, paramedics claim

Hell, even the WA Health department's own data show around only 75% of all Emergency "Triage 2" cases are seen within the recommended time of 10 minutes over the last year.bAnd that figure has been trending lower over the last several years, too, according to the Federal Government's AIHW dataset....

Xeptu 26th Aug 2021 00:34


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 11101329)
At least we only have 7 as against the 52 in the un-United States.

And 4 in the UK

dr dre 26th Aug 2021 00:42

Every state has a problem with hospitals and ambulance ramping, every single one:

Brisbane hospital at 191 per cent capacity, wait times top several hours

Statistics reveal thousands of hours lost to ramping outside SA hospitals

Ambulance ramping at Royal Hobart Hospital hits nearly 10,000 hours in nine months

NSW hospitals running a 'crisis medical service', parliamentary inquiry into regional health care hears

Five-hour ambulance delays outside hospitals a ‘public health disaster’ (Victoria)

WA ambulance ramping at 'troubling' levels

Worsening situation at Royal Darwin Hospital

Lead Balloon 26th Aug 2021 01:00

And that's because Australia has, for decades, relied on immigration to staff hospitals. A very (very) senior public servant then in the Commonwealth Department of Health and Ageing told me, a decade and a half ago, that without immigration Australia would not have a public hospital system.

The lazy way works until the source is closed off.

There was a news story yesterday that said Victoria is bringing in 350 medical staff from overseas (through our 'closed' borders of course) to help remove pressure from its hospital system.

43Inches 26th Aug 2021 01:02

Ambulance ramping and hospital bypass are common during peak periods in cities pre-covid. You can't just have a system that has capacity for extreme events and peaks on Fridays and weekends due to drunk idiots and thrill seekers, it would cost a fortune to maintain that over 365 days a year. Instead they share the load across a city with the triage system. Now covid presents extra problems in that processing inbound patients takes longer, due to having to quarantine them and make sure hospital staff and other patients are protected, therefore if a number of patients turn up at once, they will hold them on ramp while they process them in. This has knock on effects of taking ambulances off the road and tying up the ambulance system. Again proof that Covid imposes a lot of stress on the health system in all areas, even relatively small numbers.

One health official said earlier in the week, "if you ask the health minister if we have extra capacity the answer will always be yes". Why, because there is always capacity, it just might be eaten away if a sudden influx occurs in a short period of time and not enough staff are positioned for the event.


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