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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

aviation_enthus 18th Jul 2021 23:25

Overnight success, 30 years in the making….
 

Originally Posted by Aussie Bob (Post 11080600)
For this we are expected to take a vaccine that is not a vaccine but a new MRA, never tried before experiment that will only protect us from others that have had the same "vaccine".

The mRNA “vaccines” are not new… They also been tried before…

“While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.”

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti.../covid19/89998

The reason none of these went into full production was a lack of urgency or money. There’s already a “normal” vaccine for rabies and influenza, Zika virus basically ceased to be a threat.

The MASSIVE difference with the mRNA Coronavirus vaccines is the huge amount of money throw at them and the orders placed by the US Government to ensure they got developed as fast as science would allow.

The idea for mRNA vaccines was thought up in the early 1990’s. There has been 30 years of research and development to get to the point of allowing the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines to be created so fast.

Moderna (the company) was set up in 2010 with the aim of bringing mRNA drugs to market. They had already started to pivot towards vaccines prior to 2019.

BioNTech was also set up to take advantage of the development of mRNA in medicine.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/...-vaccine-race/

While the COVID vaccines may be the first approved mRNA vaccines, the technology behind them has been under development for decades. Just shows what a lot of money and attention can do…

blubak 18th Jul 2021 23:25


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11080837)
With 109 cases consistently being around the 100 for a week now Melbourne on a knifes edge. This will only take 60 days to get under control and be allowed to travel again. Two biggest city’s out now Aiviation back to a stand still almost.

Like somebody previously posted,nobody really knows what the truth is so we have to go with opinions & some we agree with & some we dont so heres mine.
It is true that vic is on a knife edge but it seems like the community transmission is well under control whereas in nsw at least 25% of the daily cases have been out doing their own thing(take a look at bondi yesterday) which of course relates to the willingness of people to listen to advice.

DirectAnywhere 18th Jul 2021 23:36


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 11080922)
Like somebody previously posted,nobody really knows what the truth is so we have to go with opinions & some we agree with & some we dont so heres mine.
It is true that vic is on a knife edge but it seems like the community transmission is well under control whereas in nsw at least 25% of the daily cases have been out doing their own thing(take a look at bondi yesterday) which of course relates to the willingness of people to listen to advice.

Vic seems to be largely on top of this. I think we can expect a few days extension perhaps but it looks pretty good to be done within two weeks.

NSW is a mess and will be for weeks at the very least, if not months. Gladys is rattled. Communication is poor. Messaging is getting lost.

The message for governments is now stark and very clear - any community transmission, lock down immediately to minimise both the health and economic impacts, at least until an appropriate percentage of the population is vaccinated, whatever that may be.

blubak 18th Jul 2021 23:37


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11080705)
According to the Kairouz Probability Theorem we have a total of 109 cases tomorrow

13 cases in vic today,all linked to current outbreak.
Almost 55000 tests yesterday so definitely heading the right way.

SHVC 18th Jul 2021 23:54

NSW is out for at least 12 weeks. Vic will be back in two. My tik tok prediction.

Capn Rex Havoc 18th Jul 2021 23:55


The message for governments is now stark and very clear - any community transmission, lock down immediately to minimise both the health and economic impacts, at least until an appropriate percentage of the population is vaccinated, whatever that may be.
Whoa, hang on there. That solution is DEFINITELY NOT the way to go. The fear mongering is unbelievable. Mildura has 1 case, and you think Locking down Portland and every other regional town is acceptable. LOCKDOWNS are not the answer for infection cases that are not remotely close to overwhelming the health system. What is necessary is contact tracing and subsequent close contact isolation. Wearing of masks, and washing of hands. (interesting how the hand washing messages of the past have vanished), and getting vaccinated. Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs than Octogenarians who have passed.

A disturbing trend of media sensationalism I noticed yesterday is the reporting in the vein of "Disturbing exposure sites increases to 280". WTF! who care about the number of exposure sites. The number of deaths is important, and the number of ICU admissions. Seriously - reporting the death of 92 year old from covid, is hardly responsible. Get some perspective Australians.

DirectAnywhere 19th Jul 2021 00:03


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11080933)
Whoa, hang on there. That solution is DEFINITELY NOT the way to go. The fear mongering is unbelievable. Mildura has 1 case, and you think Locking down Portland and every other regional town is acceptable. LOCKDOWNS are not the answer for infection cases that are not remotely close to overwhelming the health system. What is necessary is contact tracing and subsequent close contact isolation. Wearing of masks, and washing of hands. (interesting how the hand washing messages of the past have vanished), and getting vaccinated. Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs than Octogenarians who have passed.

A disturbing trend of media sensationalism I noticed yesterday is the reporting in the vein of "Disturbing exposure sites increases to 280". WTF! who care about the number of exposure sites. The number of deaths is important, and the number of ICU admissions. Seriously - reporting the death of 92 year old from covid, is hardly responsible. Get some perspective Australians.

It's pretty clear that solution IS the way to go, and is the model all state governments will be following until we reach the mythical unicorn of herd immunity by vaccination. Doesn't matter what I think, or what you think, the evidence is clear. Vic should be on top of their outbreak inside two weeks while NSW will be 6 weeks to the end of the current planned lockdown, but no-one of any expertise expects it to end there. Contact tracing cannot withstand the the transmissability of current variants. I wish it were otherwise, but if wishes were horses....

601 19th Jul 2021 00:31


Contact tracing cannot withstand the the transmissability of current variants.
It would if people followed the health directions.

I attended an outdoor event yesterday that required a Check In. While I was in a position to observe the Q-Code, I saw two people check - about 10% of all who passed the sign during that period.

During the main event, a family of 5 adults and one child sat about 3 metres away from us. None of the adults were wearing masks.

Instead of the media highlighting this B$ about how people are frightened of police, the media should be reinforcing the requirements of the health directions.
We seem to get a lot of reporting on the excuses of why people cannot get a jab. Where is their social responsibility?

I wonder if they have the same fear about paramedics and ventilators.

Max Tow 19th Jul 2021 00:35


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11080933)
The fear mongering is unbelievable....Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs....

Lest you be accused of your own bit of fear mongering, do you have any evidence to back up your claim of a substantial increase in suicides in Australia as a result of lockdown?
I'm genuinely interested as the overseas studies I've seen do not support.

Chronic Snoozer 19th Jul 2021 00:44


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11080933)
A disturbing trend of media sensationalism I noticed yesterday is the reporting in the vein of "Disturbing exposure sites increases to 280". WTF! who care about the number of exposure sites. The number of deaths is important, and the number of ICU admissions. Seriously - reporting the death of 92 year old from covid, is hardly responsible. Get some perspective Australians.

Yes the obsession with deaths and cases is distracting. In the meantime noone has mentioned the 415 deaths in the first three months of the year due to influenza and pneumonia. At some point COVID deaths will become just another paragraph in this list.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release

WingNut60 19th Jul 2021 01:07


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 11080947)
................... At some point COVID deaths will become just another paragraph in this list.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release

That is quite likely but your post conceals a common non sequitur; that because we have become inured to a certain death rate from other causes then if we just open up right now then COVID will be just like the flu.
This is a very common argument from those who just want to open up. Those people should refer back to the Victorian outbreak of 2020 or the current one in NSW.

The deaths and disability being caused now is despite the control measures being taken.
And if you're concerned about the mental anguish caused from being locked down and out of work think what losing your wife and eldest daughter might do to you.



WingNut60 19th Jul 2021 01:11


Originally Posted by Max Tow (Post 11080946)
Lest you be accused of your own bit of fear mongering, do you have any evidence to back up your claim of a substantial increase in suicides in Australia as a result of lockdown?
I'm genuinely interested as the overseas studies I've seen do not support.

Or, on another tack, have a look at the 20% increase in gun violence deaths in the US over the 12 month period of Trump's "let it run" policy.
Only a few thousand additional lives lost. Hardly worth counting. Puny by comparison to the deaths from Covid in the Trumpdom.

MickG0105 19th Jul 2021 01:51


Originally Posted by Capn Rex Havoc (Post 11080933)
Lockdowns are causing more deaths from suicide in Australia as a result of economic hardships resulting from business collapses and stand downs than Octogenarians who have passed.

That contention is often repeated but there is little hard data to support it and some hard data that actually contradicts it.

Three states - Queensland, New South Wales, and Victoria - have released their 2020 suspected deaths by suicide data for 2020. As the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare notes,


In all cases there is no evidence to date of any increase relative to previous years.
Suspected deaths by suicide in Victoria, the lockdown state of 2020, were essentially unchanged from the previous two years. In fact, the 699 suspected deaths by suicide for 2020 was slightly lower than in 2019 (718) and similar to 2018 (700). Moreover, if you look at suicides by month throughout the lengthy second 2020 lockdown (June - October), they average below the annual average for 2020.

New South Wales recorded a nearly 5 percent year-on-year drop in suspected deaths by suicide in 2020, with 898, as opposed to 944 in 2019.

The Queensland data is mixed. Noting that they have only reported for the first seven months of 2020 (to 31 July), the headline data shows a slight increase in suspected deaths by suicide for that period, 454, when compared to the 445 for the same period in 2019. Queensland Police Service reports for the same period indicate that COVID-19 may have contributed towards 28 suspected suicides, through either or a combination of - affecting mood, coping, stress and anxiety; employment; social isolation; changes in access to healthcare support; relationship breakdown; and finances. Of note in that QPS reporting, "finances" was mentioned in only one case (relatedly "employment" was mentioned in 11 cases, which may have included the single "finances" case).

Any data-based discussion on suicide numbers and rates is hampered in the first instance by the fact that there is no national register. The states, except for South Australia, manage their own registers - South Australia doesn't have one at all. Secondly, there's the lag in reporting. Presently there is no good data for this year.

We won't see the national data for 2020 until around October this year but based on the numbers from the eastern states it is very likely that 2020 will have been only the sixth year since 2006 when suicides are down year-on-year against the prior year.

MickG0105 19th Jul 2021 02:05


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 11080947)
Yes the obsession with deaths and cases is distracting. In the meantime noone has mentioned the 415 deaths in the first three months of the year due to influenza and pneumonia. At some point COVID deaths will become just another paragraph in this list.

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release

Possibly no one has mentioned it because they show a marked improvement on previous years.

As always, read the details (per your link).


Influenza
  • There has not been a death certified due to influenza since late July 2020.
Pneumonia
  • The number of deaths due to pneumonia has been largely below average since late April 2020.
  • Between January and March 2021, deaths due to pneumonia were 84 (16.8%) below the 2015-19 average and 148 deaths (26.3%) below the same point in 2020.

So, zero in the Influenza deaths column and 148 fewer deaths from Pneumonia column when compared to the previous year. Form your own views as to what might be contributing to those outcomes.

PoppaJo 19th Jul 2021 02:06

The TikTok leaker has apparently been busted. Still no reason why Health couldn’t release the stats at say 9am, rather than dragging it out 15 hours.

ruprecht 19th Jul 2021 02:10


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11080955)
The deaths and disability being caused now is despite the control measures being taken.

I will agree with you right up until the day everyone who is eligible for the vaccine has been offered one.

Chronic Snoozer 19th Jul 2021 03:02


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11080969)
Possibly no one has mentioned it because they show a marked improvement on previous years.

As always, read the details (per your link).



So, zero in the Influenza deaths column and 148 fewer deaths from Pneumonia column when compared to the previous year. Form your own views as to what might be contributing to those outcomes.

Mate, I don't want to get into a debate about the statistics. I've read them. I linked them because I thought they were of interest. Obviously some of the actions taken due to COVID have affected the tally of deaths due to other respiratory diseases. I was merely reflecting on CRH's point about distracting media coverage.

And if you read the details you will have noted that influenza and pneumonia are linked for a good reason.

Chronic Snoozer 19th Jul 2021 03:05


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11080955)
That is quite likely but your post conceals a common non sequitur; that because we have become inured to a certain death rate from other causes then if we just open up right now then COVID will be just like the flu.
This is a very common argument from those who just want to open up. Those people should refer back to the Victorian outbreak of 2020 or the current one in NSW.

The deaths and disability being caused now is despite the control measures being taken.
And if you're concerned about the mental anguish caused from being locked down and out of work think what losing your wife and eldest daughter might do to you.

Nowhere have I suggested opening up or that COVID is just like the flu.

jrfsp 19th Jul 2021 03:17

looks like SA about to fall as well

WingNut60 19th Jul 2021 03:32


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 11080981)
Nowhere have I suggested opening up or that COVID is just like the flu.

Then what was your point? That media reports are distracting? Yep, I'll go along with that.


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