But you yourself just illustrated the difference. Perhaps you should read the Australian equivalent rules that don’t include bubble flying.

You fly over to the USA and the rule upon return is a minimum of 2 days quarantine plus a negative test. Is that correct? After those two requirements are completed what then? Free to move about in the community. You know things like shopping, going to the rugby, off to the pub, concert perhaps. All the pastimes and freedoms that anyone else has. Is that correct? What I’m talking about has nothing to do with red or green flights. It’s what happens outside the Tasman rule set that bothers me. I’ve read all the documents. Tell me where I’m wrong please if you can.
Enlighten us.

I haven't read the Australian equivalent and it does not interest me. If the Australian politicians haven't set up special cases for Australian flight crew operating the Tasman Bubble, then that is an issue for flight crew in Australia to take up with their politicians.

Yes as long as they have complied with the Aircrew Border order in regard to the conduct in other countries. Failure to comply with those requirements mean a 14 day stay in MIQ. Flight crew only require the one negative test, cabin crew are required to be tested every 7 days since their first red zone flight conducted after October 13, 2020. Before that date it was every 14 days.

As I mentioned above, I haven't read the Australian rules, how often do red zone cabin crew in Australia have to be tested once they have arrived back into Australia?

As of 1st May 2021 all frontline border or MIQ workers employed by or under contract to the NZ government must be vaccinated. If you choose not to be vaccinated then you will be re-deployed into roles that mean you will never see a member of the public while at work. Those that are contractors will not have their contracts extended beyond the 1st of May.

Messaging is going to the airlines that by the time the NZ green zone extends to the Cook Islands and Niue this month the only aircrew that should be operating internationally from NZ will be vaccinated crew. This is in anticipation of further extending of the Green Zone to other Pacific Island nations and selected Asian destinations towards the middle of 2021, once vaccination groups 1, 2 and 3 are complete.

How the Australian Government wants to play this bubble is up to the Australian Government, but once you are in a travel bubble you are at the mercy of the way the other countries operate themselves.

.

How the Australian Government wants to play this bubble is up to the Australian Government, but once you are in a travel bubble you are at the mercy of the way the other countries operate themselves.[/QUOTE]

That’s an arrogant position coming from someone who can’t be bothered reading our rules yet I have read yours. The bubble is a partnership mate. Don’t worry this matter has the attention of our governments both federal and state. I for one am comfortable with how NZ treats it’s aircrew. That is, with respect and trust. It’s the Australian Government and to a lesser degree the State Governments that I have issue with.
Take care. Stay safe and don’t cough.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...erth/100108244

Another breach.....very low risk from the cook islands luckily but how have they not got these systems worked out

We seem to be doing our utmost best to solidify that concept...

The same for Australians. They need some pilots to fix it up. 😀

“Passenger Karen Leech said she had been told by another passenger that there was a man on the flight who had recently been in Rarotonga but had not quarantined in New Zealand as required.”

"He managed to somehow get onto the flight from Auckland to Perth," she said.

So who dropped the ball here? Was it Australia or New Zealand?

WA has announced two positive C-19 test. Why is there a short sharp snap lock down for 3 days announced immediately? Whats changed behind the scenes is he worried WA people might actually not like him anymore

It’s three positive tests I believe. The reason a lockdown was not immediately ordered is because partial restrictions were already in place when the guard was infectious in the community reducing the risk of transmission somewhat.

..................and there's a Western Derby AFL game scheduled tomorrow.

Yeah, that too. Any lockdown won't come into force until after full time. :rolleyes:

This morning's radio 2GB (SY) announcing that the DIRECT flights between PER - AUK cancelled for the time being.

And I DO hope to be going to the WA Derby at Perth's Optus Oval this arvo.....Wearing a mask of course....

Further announcements by WA Gummint to be made later this morning.....We shall see what we shall see...

But Scomo and Dutton said hotel quarantine is 99.99% effective? Oh yeah that’s right 99% plus are not infected with COVID to start with so it’s a free 99% before they even start. The AMA was saying the escapes are now approaching 1 in 100 when you do the stats on actual positive cases compared to leaks. I still believe the 2 year rule, these muppet politicians take 2 years to actually fix problems properly, both State and Federal, they have 11 months to go....

And I’m loving McGowan now feeling the pressure, it’s very easy to throw stones at other States but far different when you actually have to do something. Statistics speak louder than words and it’s now obvious that WA hotel quarantine is the worst in the country, they hardly take anyone compared to other states yet they leak like a submarine with fly screens. If McGowan was true to his word he would lock down again, but I think he is finding it a bit harder politically when the shoe is on the other foot. What are you waiting for? destroy the virus lock it down premier! Lol...That’s what you were lecturing every other state with last year?

Yeah stop playing “whack-a-mole” McClown.

His flog status has reached epic levels.

Yeah Well......Just held a Press Conference....and announced......NO AUDIENCE ATTENDANCE at the WA DERBY this arvo..!!

Boo - Hoo Some WA Voters will NOT like this I reckon. But then, is it 'better' to inconvenience some 45,000 fans , rather then the 'Thousands' affected by a lockdown..??..

So, there is NO "LOCKDOWN" for the Perth / Peel Region.....BUT.....NO Footy Audience....

(Blamed on the 'crush' of people getting to / from the game on trains busses etc and the 'walking crush' at the game entries / exits etc)

You could see this coming,it was just a matter of when.
Mismanagement certainly caused what happened in victoria but when you continually bleat how good you are,1 day the tide will turn against you & now it has happened.
He has decided there will be no crowds at the footy today in perth but there are no new cases today.
Is this his way of saying our hotels are high risk but we will divert attention away from that by putting the public focus on a footy match.
I guess he will also try & blame the feds again & not without cause as all the feds do is stand back & play politics whilst telling us what a great job they are doing a la the vaccination program.

Can't comment on the rest of your argument but I believe that this part of it is simply not correct.
It is a common claim on this thread but is does not accord at all with the counter-claim.

WA claims that, on a per capita basis, it has taken MORE than any of the other states.
Either someone is telling porkies or someone thinks that "per capita" is not relevant and only raw numbers matter.

I believe that it is relevant.
I think that ability to accept returnees needs to be proportionate to availability of facilities and that availability of facilities is probably proportionate to population.
Unless someone has evidence to the contrary then I think that is exactly what WA has done + some.

How many WA is taking is irrelevant. It's the fact that the WA system keeps leaking that matters. He is failing. And judging by the calls on talkback radio after last weekend, the public are waking up.

Listening to a bunch of conservative boomers is hardly the litmus test needed to form any kind of public opinion consensus on WA’s Covid policies.

Confirmed once again that the general public can access these quarantine hotels for events. Wth is going on over there in WA???

Then would you mind telling your mates to stop using it as part of your argument.

More details please. Don't know anything about that.
But importantly, has it lead to any outbreaks?

Get knotted DH, they are not my mates, nor is it my argument.

The point being that for the last 12 months, the comments had been largely supportive. That has changed.

One can go to high tea at the pan pacific hotel, or host a wedding/formal at another quarantine hotel.
No outbreak yet but where is the risk management around that? Even the AMA advised against general public access to quarantine hotels. No other state does this, yet another hole in the cheese IMO.

That it has been trotted out repeatedly in the posts above and incessantly by Beryl, the Propaganda Queen, is most certainly relevant.
But then, if you're silly enough to swoon after her then you're capable of believing anything.

Yes, dual-use would certainly seem to pose an additional risk, whether problems have arisen from it or not.
The alternative being that quarantine hotels not be accessible for any other non-quarantine related purposes, not just restricted with regard grand events.
Are you sure that's what's happening in all other states?

Great news . We have a Pakistani sailer on the run in QLD. We have his Syrian crew mates asking for asylum. More pressure on the HQ service, less Australians to be allowed home.

That's literally your right as an Australian.

This is the Feds essentially admitting they can't deliver the most basic of rights to citizens, which is unique in the world.

I'm in a really unusual position, having visited Europe for work during the pandemic, visiting London and Berlin. I hate to break it, but life in those places ain't so different, people seem to imagine zombies in the street or something, not so! In London you need to order food or drinks via an app at your table, which was mostly outside, in Berlin masks were being aggressively enforced and you must scan in at bars. I was issued with N95 masks to use and constantly used alcohol hand cleaner.

Coming back was really stressful, but quarantine was fine, I brought a lot of disinfectant wipes with me to clean the room down and some fabric disinfectant spray for the bed, my biggest thing was not having enough coffee lol.

It was very confronting, watching people just getting on with their lives in Europe, compared to the cowering fear of people in hazmat suits here. I'm not sure which is the healthier state of mind.

You have an intriguing question there about healthier state of mind. To which most would point to the healthier state of everything else.

Did you visit any funerals while you were there? You might want to also factor in the 83,000 + who have died from Covid in Germany.

So 0.1% of the population? Run and hide the zombies are coming

Your view of life in Europe may have been coloured by the period of the pandemic measures you were present for. There has been a stay at home order in England for the last 5 months, restaurants could offer a click and collect service only with no alcohol permitted to be served. This was after their government lifted their restrictions over the summer of 2020, encouraged a “normal” life and sparked a second wave that gave them the highest death rate per capita in the world in January and brought their healthcare to the edge of collapse - the primary danger of COVID at the macro level. The lockdown measures in place from January reversed that and now the UK is on a good path to recovery thanks to their vaccine rollout.

This has been the problem all along - people just see numbers with no context and allow themselves to be suckered in by fear mongering.

80,000 lives lost is sad for sure, but context is everything. I acknowledge CV has killed people in large numbers, I just don’t buy the mass fear campaign.

But you do agree that so far only a small fraction of the population has been infected? And that the death rate is approximately 2%, and there are long term effects for perhaps 30% of the others? Extrapolate that out to a 100% infection incidence, who the hell is going to provide acute care for that many people, bury that many people and provide chronic care for that many people?

There was always going to be a race between the virus and the vaccine, and those countries that understood that have suffered fewer deaths and costs.

A lot of this has to do with an individual’s propensity to defer to experts. Either you agree with the overwhelming professional consensus on an issue or you look for the few dissenters.

In the case of Covid, it’s a bit clearer because we have examples of countries who have gone against the professional advice (Sweden, US and more recently India) and those who have adopted the most conservative approaches (Australia and NZ). I know where I would prefer to be.

Australia has fared very well through this crisis. We are coming out with a strong economy, a healthy population and a health care system which retains capacity. Domestic life is almost entirely unaffected. No wonder most people are happy with the federal and state responses to Covid.

Incorrect.
New Zealand are far less conservative than Australia when it comes to crew quarantine. Yes I’ll raise this again. After all this is a pilot forum so get over it. I’ll continue to bang on about significant differences in how quarantine procedures apply between the two countries.
Australia. 14 days no exceptions outside the Tasman bubble with a negative pcr test.
New Zealand no quarantine required except if flown in from the USA (2 days and negative pcr) Asia no quarantine required.

All Australian pilots should be outraged at the disparity. Whilst overseas both countries aircrew practice the same protocols so where is the science to back up the difference? There is none. Its heavy handed bureaucratic crap. All Aussie international pilots ffs write to your local state and federal members and make some noise.

I’m not incorrect, you’re just not understanding what I’m saying. I’m talking about the treatment of Covid in the population as a whole. I’m not talking about crew quarantine. The affect of crew quarantine on borders is minimal. It’s an inconvenience to crew, that’s all. No one else cares.

An inconvenience. What a stupid ignorant comment. Try 3-4 months of it. Air New Zealand none.

stupid is thinking spending PAID time in quarantine is something to whine about. Don’t like it? Don’t do it. Plenty of work available cleaning toilets with me on minimum wage champ.