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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 06:50
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A320 Flyer
care to share?
The doodoo has hit the fan.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 07:11
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Is this correct that Qantas want to take pilots to court because they are asking for better than low cost carrier conditions? While they make record profits? Taking pilots to court. Seriously? Shameful. Good luck to those involved. Glad I choose a different path.

Shameful.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 07:29
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Rumours of a EK PER base?
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 07:56
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WhiteNight
Is this correct that Qantas want to take pilots to court because they are asking for better than low cost carrier conditions? While they make record profits? Taking pilots to court. Seriously? Shameful. Good luck to those involved. Glad I choose a different path.

Shameful.
Yes, or at least to arbitration. Or they want us to think that’s the case anyway. They probably don’t want any of it but they do want pilots making irrational choices out of fear. Courageous move if they actually want to relinquish control to commissioners who will feel in no way compelled to comply with the Qantas wages policy.

EK rumours add an interesting twist to the saga.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 08:12
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by YeahNup
The doodoo has hit the fan.
Meh, they haven’t thrown it with much conviction. It tends to spray pretty indiscriminately too and we are a fair bit more used to being hit with it than they are.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 08:20
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HEALY
Rumours of a EK PER base?
CX too. 😂
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 08:39
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Any link to the news?
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 11:03
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Post

Originally Posted by spc98075c
Any link to the news?
I’m sure it will be thoroughly covered by the Roo New’s team of investigative journalists
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 12:35
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
I’m sure it will be thoroughly covered by the Roo New’s team of investigative journalists
Is it on Yammer???? #mymagicplace = Paraburdoo call out as skipper on $65/hr
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 20:16
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by walesregent
Yes, or at least to arbitration. Or they want us to think that’s the case anyway. They probably don’t want any of it but they do want pilots making irrational choices out of fear. Courageous move if they actually want to relinquish control to commissioners who will feel in no way compelled to comply with the Qantas wages policy.

EK rumours add an interesting twist to the saga.
This sums it up! QF are not going to risk the backlash if they have some token win against one of the only cohorts that has been under continuous attack when that cohort is suddenly in dwindling supply. And if true, these Aussie, base rumours are going to accelerate this problem, the balance of power is shifting significantly…fast. The pilot shortage that some have always said we are so well insulated from is on our doorstep. To make matters worse, I mean better, Atlas has also suggested they may throw in a pretty generous USD travel allowance for those who don’t want to live in the US, but want to have all the benefits of better pay and conditions without the IR bullsh!t.

QF are about to see how sticking to their mindless dogma and winning every battle will
be their demise.

The titanic didn’t sink because it hit an iceberg, it sank because it couldn’t change direction.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 22:21
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by walesregent
Courageous move if they actually want to relinquish control to commissioners who will feel in no way compelled to comply with the Qantas wages policy.
FWC will probably only increase wages in line with their own annual reviews of modern awards. Last year it was 5.75%, but was less in previous years.

They only need to apply the “BOOT” test vs the award and not against other EAs.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 22:41
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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I don’t think it’s quite that simple but happy to be shown how I am wrong;
I don’t think this is for a determination, but for a declaration, correct? With a declaration the commission can
specify a post-declaration negotiation period in an intractable bargaining declaration. This allows the Commission to continue to assist parties to resolve the dispute
If it does get to a Determination then I think it is a risky call for Qantas.

When making an intractable bargaining workplace determination, the Commission must take into account:
  • the merits of the case
  • the interests of the employers and employees who will be covered by the determination
  • the significance of any arrangements or benefits in an enterprise agreement that applies to the employees and employers immediately before the determination is made
  • the public interest
  • how productivity in the relevant enterprise(s) might be improved
  • the reasonableness of the conduct of the bargaining representatives during bargaining
  • the extent that bargaining representatives have complied with good faith bargaining requirements, and
  • incentives to continue bargaining at a later time.
In my mind the ‘significance of any arrangements or benefits’, and the ‘reasonableness of the conduct ‘ and the ‘ extent that reps have complied with good faith bargaining requirements’ could be viewed in many ways.
For example, how will a Full Bench view the Qantas Groups willingness to allow the contract to languish below the award for so long in light of the recent nationwide sentiment around Qantas and the treatment of employees?
Would a Full Bench consider that the ‘good faith’ requirements have been met? Did the representatives remain communicative and responsive throughout?
It’s a very interesting time politically to be handing any control to the Fair Work Commission.
​​​​​​​Can someone confirm that this is just for a declaration and not a determination?
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 22:55
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
FWC will probably only increase wages in line with their own annual reviews of modern awards. Last year it was 5.75%, but was less in previous years.

They only need to apply the “BOOT” test vs the award and not against other EAs.
Hi
That’s not quite correct : they will apply both the BOOT test and the new FWA Commission no disadvantage “clause” ie “same job and same pay” within an organisation (which Mining Companies are complaining about).

But as in all things to do with Industrial Relations it’s something of a lottery .

But here’s the kicker : Jetstar pay their Airbus pilots at a higher rate and that will be a reference for a Judgement.

QF lawyers will argue it’s different but to a Judge they will have to prove “why” they shouldn’t pay them Jetstar Wages !

VARA (flying the same aircraft) have just concluded completed a new EBA and approved by the FWA over a week ago . Everyone should look at the differences in pay and working conditions and protections (ie one example guaranteed weekend once in every 4 week roster publish). Network have never given their pilots guarantees for a weekend off etc

Lets be clear the current Network Pilot Group should persist to obtain a fair and equitable outcome .

Cheers
Buddy
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 00:08
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dijon moutard
Hi
That’s not quite correct : they will apply both the BOOT test and the new FWA Commission no disadvantage “clause” ie “same job and same pay” within an organisation (which Mining Companies are complaining about).

But as in all things to do with Industrial Relations it’s something of a lottery .

But here’s the kicker : Jetstar pay their Airbus pilots at a higher rate and that will be a reference for a Judgement.

QF lawyers will argue it’s different but to a Judge they will have to prove “why” they shouldn’t pay them Jetstar Wages !

VARA (flying the same aircraft) have just concluded completed a new EBA and approved by the FWA over a week ago . Everyone should look at the differences in pay and working conditions and protections (ie one example guaranteed weekend once in every 4 week roster publish). Network have never given their pilots guarantees for a weekend off etc

Lets be clear the current Network Pilot Group should persist to obtain a fair and equitable outcome .

Cheers
Buddy
This is definitely the kicker for them. Try to run the same flight schedule under the award and the wages bill could accumulate quite fast, if not being outright impossible. I’m not sure how the process runs but if there is any risk that all the variations from the award are independently costed the figures could be quite different to what Qantas comes up with. No more 16 hour reserve blocks or four sector days for a start. The pinch point is that the award now talks about operating under an approved FRMS in lieu of a strict 38 hour work week (side note- who the f*ck in the commission is responsible for that shamelessly business friendly clause?), but they would have to be betting that their shambolic FRMS trial counts as ‘approved’.
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 03:17
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Is there a way we can sponsor a NAA pilot so they can do longer PIA?
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 10:49
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 1234fly
Is there a way we can sponsor a NAA pilot so they can do longer PIA?
Not a silly question. Didn't NZ ALPA have some sort of 'loan' avalaible to members for such an eventuality once upon a time / still?

I doubt it exists in OZ at the present time, but something to consider for the future?
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Old 3rd Feb 2024, 19:17
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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All this goes to show is that the talk of cultural change and a more constructive relationship with the staff from Ms Hudson was just that - talk.

This organisation will take the chance to screw its staff every time.

The attitudes of the Dixon/ Joyce years just keep on keeping on, although I didn’t expect any different.

Best of luck at FWC ladies and gents.
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Old 4th Feb 2024, 02:41
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Would a FWC decision of “3% or CPI” result in the other QF Group entities getting the same? Wasn’t that a condition of the wages policy?

That alone would instil fear in the eyes of a QantasLink manager.
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Old 4th Feb 2024, 03:29
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
Would a FWC decision of “3% or CPI” result in the other QF Group entities getting the same? Wasn’t that a condition of the wages policy?

That alone would instil fear in the eyes of a QantasLink manager.
Has anyone seen the actual wages policy and all its terms? We know that it involves a pay freeze followed by, now, 3% annual increases but, as far as I’m aware, we don’t know what it says about award or FWC forced pay rises. You get the feeling that it says whatever they want it to say when it suits them, so I have doubts about it triggering group wide pay increases.
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Old 4th Feb 2024, 03:56
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Has anyone seen the actual wages policy and all its terms? We know that it involves a pay freeze followed by, now, 3% annual increases but, as far as I’m aware, we don’t know what it says about award or FWC forced pay rises. You get the feeling that it says whatever they want it to say when it suits them, so I have doubts about it triggering group wide pay increases.
The company can write whatever policy they want but they will be paying you what the FWC determines. I don’t think they’re too bothered about some arbitrary wages policy.
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