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Network EBA

Old 29th Jan 2024, 20:12
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Nobody applauded them for their choices.
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Old 29th Jan 2024, 21:21
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Right, I now have 35 minutes on a train so I’ll explain why Soseg’s negative comments about the 43% annoyed me and then I’ll leave it alone.
Let’s say that the Network pilot group is split into ‘group A ‘ and ‘group B’ where group A is the 43% and B is the 57%. ( no point in including abstentions).
The best outcome for Network pilots, and to a lesser degree all Australian pilots, is if A and B get along, they are communicating with each other and able to join forces and pull in the same direction when it is needed. The worst thing for Network pilots is if hate and vitriol develop between group A and B because human nature requires most people to dig in, to become entrenched in their position and make decisions not based on the relevant facts in front of them, but on their instinctual connection to their group. The decisions become emotionally determined rather than logical and it makes it very difficult for the average human to change camps ( especially if they are adult males). That resistance to listening and to changing from group A to B increases in line with the animosity and adversarial comments.
A while back there was a challenging moment in the relationship between A and B ( that’s fine, same as all relationships) and now something good is happening, and naturally the sting of the challenge dissipates as the weeks roll by……..until someone in group B fans the embers.
The smart thing to do, the intelligent thing to do, the mature thing to do for the health of the relationship ( and therefore the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia) is for group B pilots to control their emotions and comments and let time time do its thing so as to allow an easier path for group A pilots to change camps. Not all will but it’s the best chance of the best outcome.
Purposely highlighting the differences in a denigrating way, out of context, is the opposite of what’s needed. Ie it slows the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia. What’s required is really easy, just stay mute on anything that splits the pilot group.
That’s my take anyway. I’m impressed with the cohesion displayed and wish you all the best from the East.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 01:45
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Originally Posted by framer
Right, I now have 35 minutes on a train so Iíll explain why Sosegís negative comments about the 43% annoyed me and then Iíll leave it alone.
Letís say that the Network pilot group is split into Ďgroup A Ď and Ďgroup Bí where group A is the 43% and B is the 57%. ( no point in including abstentions).
The best outcome for Network pilots, and to a lesser degree all Australian pilots, is if A and B get along, they are communicating with each other and able to join forces and pull in the same direction when it is needed. The worst thing for Network pilots is if hate and vitriol develop between group A and B because human nature requires most people to dig in, to become entrenched in their position and make decisions not based on the relevant facts in front of them, but on their instinctual connection to their group. The decisions become emotionally determined rather than logical and it makes it very difficult for the average human to change camps ( especially if they are adult males). That resistance to listening and to changing from group A to B increases in line with the animosity and adversarial comments.
A while back there was a challenging moment in the relationship between A and B ( thatís fine, same as all relationships) and now something good is happening, and naturally the sting of the challenge dissipates as the weeks roll byÖÖ..until someone in group B fans the embers.
The smart thing to do, the intelligent thing to do, the mature thing to do for the health of the relationship ( and therefore the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia) is for group B pilots to control their emotions and comments and let time time do its thing so as to allow an easier path for group A pilots to change camps. Not all will but itís the best chance of the best outcome.
Purposely highlighting the differences in a denigrating way, out of context, is the opposite of whatís needed. Ie it slows the advancement of pilot terms and conditions in Australia. Whatís required is really easy, just stay mute on anything that splits the pilot group.
Thatís my take anyway. Iím impressed with the cohesion displayed and wish you all the best from the East.
Largely agree- mocking someone with an alternative viewpoint is seldom productive. For me the outcome of the last vote (57% no) was close to as encouraging as the first one (~93% no) because it was an increase in the no count in spite of a gruellingly long process, an unambiguous endorsement of a yes vote by AFAP and an almost certainly better deal than has thus far been presented. Iíd say it shook the company close to as much as the outcome of the first vote, too.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 09:26
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001
It would also open the door for ex military pilots, mostly low hours.

Five hundred hours is a great deal more than most FOs start their first jet job with in Europe and UK. Probably SE Asia as well.
No one in the military could afford the paycut to work at Network on their current EBA.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 11:39
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
No one in the military could afford the paycut to work at Network on their current EBA.
The network EBA is bad, but it ainít that bad.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 19:03
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Originally Posted by Tbot
The network EBA is bad, but it ainít that bad.
Some misconceptions about modern military pay. The average 10 year officer coming to end of contract in the RAAF is clearing $170k without super, medical, housing, 7 weeks leave or allowances being added to the mix.

The outflow valve is still open but for people going to Atlas, Mainline, etc - and itís not because of pay, but workplace culture generally.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 19:17
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
Some misconceptions about modern military pay. The average 10 year officer coming to end of contract in the RAAF is clearing $170k without super, medical, housing, 7 weeks leave or allowances being addedÖ..
Just confirming $170,000AUD before tax?
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 19:44
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Clearing would suggest after tax no?
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 20:06
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Originally Posted by Upgraded
Just confirming $170,000AUD before tax?
Before tax. Perhaps naivety on my part but are salaries often expressed in post tax form?
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 20:15
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
Before tax. Perhaps naivety on my part but are salaries often expressed in post tax form?
It’s just the way it is written. Is clearing 170k to me says after tax.

Ahh the Engrish language.

Good to know as I had no idea what military pay was!
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 20:46
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Originally Posted by Global Aviator
Itís just the way it is written. Is clearing 170k to me says after tax.

Ahh the Engrish language.

Good to know as I had no idea what military pay was!
Ah yep, I see what you mean, my apologies - poor choice of words.

The way the current pay system is designed, the last couple of years before your ROSO (contract) ends, you end up getting a $10k jump every year. The pay when youíre starting out isnít spectacular but very deliberately ramps up as youíre getting closer to being able to move on.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 20:51
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Originally Posted by junior.VH-LFA
Before tax. Perhaps naivety on my part but are salaries often expressed in post tax form?
Not often in an Australian PAYG context.

But on this site pilot salaries are often reported in a net sense to produce direct comparison between two jobs especially when they are in different tax jurisdictions (think Aus vs UAE).

Itís conceivable that Mil salaries could include significant tax free compensation so good to clear it up.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 21:46
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It’s conceivable that Mil salaries could include significant tax free compensation so good to clear it up.
Unfortunately a common misperception - full-time, permanent ADF members pay normal tax rates - unless they are deployed in certain "war-like" theatres.
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Old 30th Jan 2024, 22:07
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About the only "special deal" the military get now days is a relatively high level of super (23% after 7 years and 28% after 20 years). Unfortunately MSBS closed to new members in 2016.
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 04:00
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Nothing like being wrong to get someone to stfu.

At least one of the Links has one individual with his hands on the Ďwho goes to mainlineí lever, and due to a forecast huge increase in pilot number, the lever is firmly in the no position. It hasnít occurred to them or QF that retention requires something attractive about the job, not continual disappointment. If you ever want to work for mainline, except for a tiny few who have made it through via a subsidiary, donít work for any of the group airlines.

Keep pushing!
2 per month is not wrong and is rightfully considered a steady stream. As for STFP? I just have better things to do than be here with you 24/7, indulging in conspiracy theories and spreading toxicity the way you do.

Carry on
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Old 31st Jan 2024, 07:06
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Originally Posted by YeahNup
2 per month is not wrong and is rightfully considered a steady stream. As for STFP? I just have better things to do than be here with you 24/7, indulging in conspiracy theories and spreading toxicity the way you do.

Carry on
Yeah 2 per month while people from virgin Rex etc get ahead (years on the seniority list) whilst your stuck getting treated like **** by your QF subsidiary. No appreciation for years of service to the group, no respect, no nothing. Just another example of "we couldn't care less about you, stupid worker peasant."
Look I don't care, I didn't take the job, for some it's worth the wait. What I do know is that it's just another reason I will never care one bit about the company and will only do anything to benefit myself.
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Old 1st Feb 2024, 11:20
  #97 (permalink)  
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They Them c'mon now! Everyone knows the fastest way to Qantas isn't from anyone else in the group.

Seems now the e190 contractors have got a taste for leaving bags and going international , well until the A220 comes.

Mineral Resources announced they're flying Brisbane direct to Kens Bore and Wodgina mine sites. More pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 01:41
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Originally Posted by ShandywithSugar
They Them c'mon now! Everyone knows the fastest way to Qantas isn't from anyone else in the group.

Seems now the e190 contractors have got a taste for leaving bags and going international , well until the A220 comes.

Mineral Resources announced they're flying Brisbane direct to Kens Bore and Wodgina mine sites. More pieces of the puzzle fall into place.
even a few of those will thicken the roster up a bit for anyone clinging to the notion that getting paid bottom dollar in someway guarantees lifestyle
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 06:33
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Absolutely amazing news out of the west today, Good luck everyone!
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Old 2nd Feb 2024, 06:36
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Originally Posted by LostontheLOC
Absolutely amazing news out of the west today, Good luck everyone!
care to share?
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