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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 01:21
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
I know numerous guys and gals that have joined Network and have far more heavy jet time than most of your colleagues at the White Rat.
That’s reassuring for if / when Qantas Academy Grads are placed in the RHS. It’s been done worldwide already with no problems at all we’re told.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 02:08
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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I know of at least a Dozen Cathay / Dragon guys with well over 10,000hrs that went to Network when they were dumped by Cathay. Good operators with much needed experience for that operation, now getting flogged and paid terribly, I can't imagine they will stick around unless Qantas do something serious about this upcoming EBA. Same goes for a lot of the young guys in the left seat, especially in this market.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 06:09
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Originally Posted by stevieboy330
I know of at least a Dozen Cathay / Dragon guys with well over 10,000hrs that went to Network when they were dumped by Cathay. Good operators with much needed experience for that operation, now getting flogged and paid terribly, I can't imagine they will stick around unless Qantas do something serious about this upcoming EBA. Same goes for a lot of the young guys in the left seat, especially in this market.
They aren’t sticking around.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 11:42
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
”The job everyone wants” You poor delusional little brat.
Yeah, but are they wrong?

No one grows up wanting to join a low paid subsidiary.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 11:52
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
Seriously TL? I mean no disrespect to the good hard working teachers in our society, we have many great teachers, and an equal number of totally ****e ones. A degree in teaching isn’t considered one of the tough ones.

Need to stop belittling the worth of our own - they’re worth more than a teacher salary - not because they’re better, or work harder, but because of the inherent risk in the profession. Day to day risk, career risks, medical risks etc.
My comment was just an attempt to add another dot point to the argument making a comparison with the teaching profession. We all know what is involved in getting the required qualifications to join an airline, and you clearly outline the risks. You’re preaching to the converted here but without all the facts you’re just in an echo chamber.

I’d be the first to advocate for Network pilots to get a massive payrise. With a higher cost base, it may potentially result in less farming out of flying from Mainline, thereby improving my own progression and job security. We’ve seen unprecedented growth at Network over the last 5 years while QF SH is left to wither on the vine.

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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 14:00
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
With a higher cost base, it may potentially result in less farming out of flying from Mainline, thereby improving my own progression and job security
Thats the attitude problem with many Qantas (mainline) pilots. Its everyone else's responsibility.

The truth is that you (or your predecessors) should have had scope clauses 20+ years ago. Jetstar was was an early red flag, but I suspect plenty happily took a secondment across to get that off the ground.

Either way the ship has sailed. Vote with your feet or fight for change, but don't leave it for the likes of network crews to solve your problems.

I don't work for either mob, but one pprune thread is saying new joiners at QF are being bullied into 737 roles on joining, and other threads are full of moaning about a lack.of progression on the 737. Something between those two stories fails to add up to this outsider.


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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 21:50
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QF pilots (AIPA) stood by and watched as the domestic airlines ripped up agreements in 1989.

They failed to act when NJS (now A220 operation) brought in the 146 and undercut Ansett pilots

Then there was Impulse, which became Jetstar….. Alliance etc. etc

‘This mob make Neville Chamberlain look like a fascist.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 22:48
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Lapon. With regard to the other thread, No body is being bullied into 737 roles. Recruits may be asked if they will go straight to the 737. If they say yes, they will most likely get an earlier start date. If they say no, that’s also fine, but will most likely have to wait a bit longer to join. The reason for the statement being added into the recruitment offer is that many people said they would go to the 737, then a joining day, decided that the 737 was now, not really for them. They played the system. Now QF have a statement to stop it from happening again. So those with that statement in their offer, have said yes to the 737 option. Tough luck if they too were trying to game the system.

apologies for hijacking the thread

Last edited by SandyPalms; 22nd Sep 2023 at 23:00.
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Old 22nd Sep 2023, 23:50
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lapon
Thats the attitude problem with many Qantas (mainline) pilots. Its everyone else's responsibility.

The truth is that you (or your predecessors) should have had scope clauses 20+ years ago. Jetstar was was an early red flag, but I suspect plenty happily took a secondment across to get that off the ground.

Either way the ship has sailed. Vote with your feet or fight for change, but don't leave it for the likes of network crews to solve your problems.

I don't work for either mob, but one pprune thread is saying new joiners at QF are being bullied into 737 roles on joining, and other threads are full of moaning about a lack.of progression on the 737. Something between those two stories fails to add up to this outsider.
OK sure mate, it’s my fault that Network pilots are paid below market rates

It’s got nothing at all to do with the fact that Qantas has adopted one of the most aggressive IR wars against its workforce that this country has ever seen.
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 00:02
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
OK sure mate, it’s my fault that Network pilots are paid below market rates

It’s got nothing at all to do with the fact that Qantas has adopted one of the most aggressive IR wars against its workforce that this country has ever seen.
Qantas pilots have always been their own problem. Love to take an elitist attitude and only care about themselves right up until they are threatened, then it’s poor them. 89 was the perfect example! If you clowns actually banded together with the regional guys, JQ, and took it to QF perhaps you would have more support. It is inevitable that you too will be forced into a battle for your positions once the A380 and B737s go. Do you want to be in that fight alone or have all the others you refused to support and belittled taking your jobs. You get what you deserve.
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 00:12
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
My comment was just an attempt to add another dot point to the argument making a comparison with the teaching profession. We all know what is involved in getting the required qualifications to join an airline, and you clearly outline the risks. You’re preaching to the converted here but without all the facts you’re just in an echo chamber.

I’d be the first to advocate for Network pilots to get a massive payrise. With a higher cost base, it may potentially result in less farming out of flying from Mainline, thereby improving my own progression and job security. We’ve seen unprecedented growth at Network over the last 5 years while QF SH is left to wither on the vine.
Wholeheartedly agree all the subsidiaries should be paid better - I reckon it should be a lifestyle choice - not a pay choice - between the entities / hauls..
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 00:36
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
OK sure mate, it’s my fault that Network pilots are paid below market rates
I don't think you'll find any network pilots blaming other pilot groups for thier problems. Thats what a number of QF mainline pilots on these threads seem to do.

You might not like thier conditions so you don't work there, but remember not everyone thinks QF mainline is all that flash either and for them a subsidiary might have more appeal.

As far as network crews go, each had thier reasons for joining and all they are trying to do by the sounds of the thread title is try and improve upon that.


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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 00:47
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
Qantas pilots have always been their own problem. Love to take an elitist attitude and only care about themselves right up until they are threatened, then it’s poor them. 89 was the perfect example! If you clowns actually banded together with the regional guys, JQ, and took it to QF perhaps you would have more support. It is inevitable that you too will be forced into a battle for your positions once the A380 and B737s go. Do you want to be in that fight alone or have all the others you refused to support and belittled taking your jobs. You get what you deserve.
Ye have so little clue….

Why will the A380’s going matter? And same with the 737’s. The A350, 787 and A321 are already included in the relevant EBA’s, so they can’t be farmed out (any attempt to is effectively a transfer of business, not allowed).

As for the A220, watch this space. I’ve said for a while now that I bet a fair chunk of them end up in mainline. Still stand by that.

Finally, how exactly are all the respective groups supposed to “stick it to the company”? Most EBA’s expire at different times, and any action outside of that is effectively unprotected industrial action. There are laws against that mate.

Last edited by morno; 23rd Sep 2023 at 01:06.
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 01:22
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
Finally, how exactly are all the respective groups supposed to “stick it to the company”? Most EBA’s expire at different times, and any action outside of that is effectively unprotected industrial action. There are laws against that mate.
Genuine question: Could it be done under the multi employer bargaining provisions?
A brief google search suggests an employer may no longer have the choice:
https://www.landers.com.au/multi-enterprise-bargaining

I don't know alot about it nor have I heard much chat about what could reverse the divide and conquer trend of recent decades.

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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 04:06
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Just heard the Chief Pilot at Network hand delivering threatening letters to pilots homes. Telling them if they don’t endorse the rubbish EA proposal the company will file for Intractable Bargaining. Keep up the pressure boys and girls!! Bully’s never win. Amazing how PIA brings out the best in the worst.
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 04:30
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno

As for the A220, watch this space. I’ve said for a while now that I bet a fair chunk of them end up in mainline. Still stand by that.
Qantas Pilots have lost that battle champ. AIPA even spat the dummy and made Qantas change the paint job from ‘QANTAS’ back to ‘QANTASLINK’.

NJS have never (well no more than others) had problems recruiting in their 35+ years why would you think they’ll have problems now?

It’ll be good to see Network F100 Pilots being paid more than NJS A220 Pilots once they run a successful PIA campaign.
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 05:10
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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4 hour airport reserve for pilots , up to 4 times per month. What a deal.
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 05:45
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
Just heard the Chief Pilot at Network hand delivering threatening letters to pilots homes. Telling them if they don’t endorse the rubbish EA proposal the company will file for Intractable Bargaining. Keep up the pressure boys and girls!! Bully’s never win. Amazing how PIA brings out the best in the worst.
Call the police for trespassing and then take out a restraining order
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 06:06
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy

NJS have never (well no more than others) had problems recruiting in their 35+ years why would you think they’ll have problems now?
Hahahahahaha you obviously dont work there. Ask your SBP how the recruitment days are going (last campaign).
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Old 23rd Sep 2023, 06:11
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Hand delivered letters to Pilot homes today, "sign the new EBA or you will have back pay cancelled and pay other various penalties & "other options." QF have become a ****ty employer but this kind of intimidation is very nasty. A few Network pilots might be updating their CV's this weekend.
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