QF mandates Vaccine
<SNIP>
But because aviation , particularly at the airline level , requires a certain personality type many Pilots THINK they should have an opinion on everything.
Including high finance , how to run a business , foreign policy ,medieval history and , of course , the validity or otherwise of COVID vaccinations.
Its an ongoing mystery.
All I can say to junior F/Os is don’t take financial / investment or relationship advise from the guy in the left hand seat. You might find to your surprise years later that they are living alone in a caravan chocked on bricks , after three divorces , living of two minute noodles.
It has always been thus.
Anybody knows why let me know.
But because aviation , particularly at the airline level , requires a certain personality type many Pilots THINK they should have an opinion on everything.
Including high finance , how to run a business , foreign policy ,medieval history and , of course , the validity or otherwise of COVID vaccinations.
Its an ongoing mystery.
All I can say to junior F/Os is don’t take financial / investment or relationship advise from the guy in the left hand seat. You might find to your surprise years later that they are living alone in a caravan chocked on bricks , after three divorces , living of two minute noodles.
It has always been thus.
Anybody knows why let me know.
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I’m sorry. Can some one explain to me what is a ‘ leaky vaccine’? At the same time can you also explain how other wise sensible people believe that this is all some sort of government conspiracy?
The man I spent almost 3 months with, teaching me “ line training’ on how to drive trains.. is convinced it is. I have/had great respect for him..but his conspiracy of ‘ the Truth is out there, but it’s being banned by the Government ‘ stuff is becoming close to paranoid.
I just don’t get it.
The man I spent almost 3 months with, teaching me “ line training’ on how to drive trains.. is convinced it is. I have/had great respect for him..but his conspiracy of ‘ the Truth is out there, but it’s being banned by the Government ‘ stuff is becoming close to paranoid.
I just don’t get it.
The congestive dissonance is real. If you're willing to religiously accept a vaccine developed quickly, then completely discount any possible treatments as also complimenting said vaccine then you're all that's wrong with modem 'science'.
It doesn't have to be one or the other. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and we don't have to discount decades-old HUMAN drugs as 'horse dewormer' because TV told me so. There's no conspiracy.
The fundamental issue is one of trust: Who do you trust?
Out of many examples, the Queensland CHO and the NSW CHO disagree as to who should have what vaccine at what age. Either they aren't looking at the same data or they put differing weights on the various risks revealed by the data.
But one thing is certain: They are merely expressing opinions, not objective truths. (It's a bit like different factions in CASA expressing different views about what is "safe".)
So we are confronted with a plethora of mere opinions that differ, and accused of being 'dumb' or 'stupid' when we form a view different to someone else's.
I should note that in my case I'm AZ vaccinated. I conferred with someone who does cold, hard statistical analysis as a day job and whose opinion I trust. But for those that don't know who to trust, it's not surprising they are very sceptical about relying upon one opinion over another. As I said earlier in this thread, there are legions of examples of governments bull****ting to populations and medical studies that come to conclusions subsequently shown to be bull****.
Out of many examples, the Queensland CHO and the NSW CHO disagree as to who should have what vaccine at what age. Either they aren't looking at the same data or they put differing weights on the various risks revealed by the data.
But one thing is certain: They are merely expressing opinions, not objective truths. (It's a bit like different factions in CASA expressing different views about what is "safe".)
So we are confronted with a plethora of mere opinions that differ, and accused of being 'dumb' or 'stupid' when we form a view different to someone else's.
I should note that in my case I'm AZ vaccinated. I conferred with someone who does cold, hard statistical analysis as a day job and whose opinion I trust. But for those that don't know who to trust, it's not surprising they are very sceptical about relying upon one opinion over another. As I said earlier in this thread, there are legions of examples of governments bull****ting to populations and medical studies that come to conclusions subsequently shown to be bull****.
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The fundamental issue is one of trust: Who do you trust?
Out of many examples, the Queensland CHO and the NSW CHO disagree as to who should have what vaccine at what age. Either they aren't looking at the same data or they put differing weights on the various risks revealed by the data.
But one thing is certain: They are merely expressing opinions, not objective truths. (It's a bit like different factions in CASA expressing different views about what is "safe".)
So we are confronted with a plethora of mere opinions that differ, and accused of being 'dumb' or 'stupid' when we form a view different to someone else's.
I should note that in my case I'm AZ vaccinated. I conferred with someone who does cold, hard statistical analysis as a day job and whose opinion I trust. But for those that don't know who to trust, it's not surprising they are very sceptical about relying upon one opinion over another. As I said earlier in this thread, there are legions of examples of governments bull****ting to populations and medical studies that come to conclusions subsequently shown to be bull****.
Out of many examples, the Queensland CHO and the NSW CHO disagree as to who should have what vaccine at what age. Either they aren't looking at the same data or they put differing weights on the various risks revealed by the data.
But one thing is certain: They are merely expressing opinions, not objective truths. (It's a bit like different factions in CASA expressing different views about what is "safe".)
So we are confronted with a plethora of mere opinions that differ, and accused of being 'dumb' or 'stupid' when we form a view different to someone else's.
I should note that in my case I'm AZ vaccinated. I conferred with someone who does cold, hard statistical analysis as a day job and whose opinion I trust. But for those that don't know who to trust, it's not surprising they are very sceptical about relying upon one opinion over another. As I said earlier in this thread, there are legions of examples of governments bull****ting to populations and medical studies that come to conclusions subsequently shown to be bull****.
Errrrr……. Your GP maybe.
Didn’t realise it was so complicated…..
When my mother was pregnant with me her GP offered her Thalidomide.
Each generation of doctors believe they have reached the apotheosis of medical knowledge. But they just provide advice, which is just an opinion. Yes - an opinion hopefully based on very sound expertise and data. But doctors are human like everyone else, and that which used to be a sound procedure is sometimes found not to be and sound data sometimes turns out not to be.
PS: Do you reckon GPs in Queensland are giving their patients the same advice as GPs in NSW are giving to their patients? If yes, I have some cheap shares in a bridge I can sell you.
Each generation of doctors believe they have reached the apotheosis of medical knowledge. But they just provide advice, which is just an opinion. Yes - an opinion hopefully based on very sound expertise and data. But doctors are human like everyone else, and that which used to be a sound procedure is sometimes found not to be and sound data sometimes turns out not to be.
PS: Do you reckon GPs in Queensland are giving their patients the same advice as GPs in NSW are giving to their patients? If yes, I have some cheap shares in a bridge I can sell you.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 11th Sep 2021 at 23:53.
When my mother was pregnant with me her GP offered her Thalidomide.
Each generation of doctors believe they have reached the apotheosis of medical knowledge. But they just provide advice, which is just an opinion. Yes - an opinion hopefully based on very sound expertise and data. But doctors are human like everyone else, and that which used to be a sound procedure is sometimes found not to be and sound data sometimes turns out not to be.
PS: Do you reckon GPs in Queensland are giving their patients the same advice as GPs in NSW are giving to their patients? If yes, I have some cheap shares in a bridge I can sell you.
Each generation of doctors believe they have reached the apotheosis of medical knowledge. But they just provide advice, which is just an opinion. Yes - an opinion hopefully based on very sound expertise and data. But doctors are human like everyone else, and that which used to be a sound procedure is sometimes found not to be and sound data sometimes turns out not to be.
PS: Do you reckon GPs in Queensland are giving their patients the same advice as GPs in NSW are giving to their patients? If yes, I have some cheap shares in a bridge I can sell you.
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It’s a theory that if vaccination doesn’t completely stop infections (sterilising immunity) then the virus will mutate to more virulent forms in vaccinated people.
In the case of Covid it’s been totally debunked.
Vaccinated people are not 'creating' coronavirus variants
Its being pushed by some including Joe Rogan, who once had a decent podcast but has jumped on the anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist bandwagon of late. He’s the most popular podcaster in the world and a lot of young Australian men follow his program religiously. And he’s been spreading unscientific nonsense about vaccines and the pandemic quite constantly
Joe Rogan is using his wildly popular podcast to question vaccines. Experts are fighting back.
In the case of Covid it’s been totally debunked.
Vaccinated people are not 'creating' coronavirus variants
Its being pushed by some including Joe Rogan, who once had a decent podcast but has jumped on the anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist bandwagon of late. He’s the most popular podcaster in the world and a lot of young Australian men follow his program religiously. And he’s been spreading unscientific nonsense about vaccines and the pandemic quite constantly
Joe Rogan is using his wildly popular podcast to question vaccines. Experts are fighting back.
How many cases of Polio and deaths did we have in Australia from that yesterday? Maybe because that vaccine actually worked.
Just for clarity's sake, I've had my 2 x AZ doses. What I disagree with is this covid vaccine fanaticism that some of you display, it's almost religious in nature. To the complete exclusion of any possible treatments.
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Gee LB,
You are going to have to help walk me through this one. I’m a bit slow.
Are you saying that the whole medical profession is part of a global conspiracy?
Or that GPs are incompetent ?
No , wait. Now I get it ,there is a global conspiracy to conceal the fact that all GPs are incompetent.
Is that it ?
Love to be a fly on the wall if you are diagnosed with stage 3 cancer and they run you through the treatment options.
Your head will explode !
You are going to have to help walk me through this one. I’m a bit slow.
Are you saying that the whole medical profession is part of a global conspiracy?
Or that GPs are incompetent ?
No , wait. Now I get it ,there is a global conspiracy to conceal the fact that all GPs are incompetent.
Is that it ?
Love to be a fly on the wall if you are diagnosed with stage 3 cancer and they run you through the treatment options.
Your head will explode !
Thalidomide was the product of an era in which testing, trials, information sharing and regulation was nowhere near as good as it is today.
It was because of that product that a system of safety was developed that gave us the safe and efficient medications and vaccines today.
How the thalidomide scandal led to safer drugs
That argument is the equivalent of saying “In the 1910’s and 20’s most aircraft were wire and canvas contraptions that had a high rate of crashing. Because of that the risk of a modern jetliner crashing could be the same, so people should avoid it”.
We are talking about two totally different eras and environments, bringing up Thalidomide as an example is pointless.
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Gee LB,
You are going to have to help walk me through this one. I’m a bit slow.
Are you saying that the whole medical profession is part of a global conspiracy?
Or that GPs are incompetent ?
No , wait. Now I get it ,there is a global conspiracy to conceal the fact that all GPs are incompetent.
You are going to have to help walk me through this one. I’m a bit slow.
Are you saying that the whole medical profession is part of a global conspiracy?
Or that GPs are incompetent ?
No , wait. Now I get it ,there is a global conspiracy to conceal the fact that all GPs are incompetent.
Your GP can be compared to the average airline pilot: he's trained well (or maybe not so well, often depending on where he was trained) to a certain standard in a certain field: ears, nose, throat, is how they refer to it although there's obviously a bit more to it than that. He'll listen to your heart and lungs, look in your throat and ears, and prescribe some pills or refer you to someone who (supposedly) can really tell you what's wrong with you, all in accordance with the current wisdom and AMA SOPs. He knows about as much about immunology as you know about aerodynamics. You can rattle off the lift equation (I hope!) but could you design a wing for an SST? No, you couldn't, and neither could he tell you wtf is really going to happen to you after he injects the experimental vaccine into your arm.
Go to your GP for advice on the vaccine? Give me strength. The GP will parrot the party line as ordered to by the AMA which you can already find on the HealthNSW website. It might turn out to be accurate and correct or it might not, time will tell, or you could ask the experts on here.
If someone else wants to wait for you lab rats to show the rest how safe it is over a longer period of time, good luck to him. I just don't see why you lot have your jocks in such a bunch.
*sigh*
As usual, anyone who has the temerity to be a bit sceptical is accused of being a conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxer. I've said, on numerous occasions in this thread, that I have been AZ vaxed. (Ironically, the accusers refuse to consider the implications of that fact.)
Hmmmm. Pelvic floor mesh? ADHD and the drugs to 'fix' it? Reflex anal dilation in children as a means to accuse entirely innocent men of paedophilia? (The last one a particularly egregious example.)
For those who think that an 'adventurous' profit-driven medical industry and doctors with superiority complexes have never in the last few decades ever pressed dubious drugs and procedures and 'conditions' on the population, I still have those cheap shares in that bridge. There are obviously a lot of people posting here who either aren't pilots or at least aren't pilots who need medical certificates from CASA Avmed. Anyone who's been paying attention to CASA Avmed's behaviour over the last dozen or so years will know what I'm talking about. If you think they've been making decisions on the basis of objective evidence and risk, I'll halve the price for those bridge shares. And if you've never met a doctor with superiority complex, you've not met too many doctors.
As usual, anyone who has the temerity to be a bit sceptical is accused of being a conspiracy theorist and anti-vaxxer. I've said, on numerous occasions in this thread, that I have been AZ vaxed. (Ironically, the accusers refuse to consider the implications of that fact.)
Hmmmm. Pelvic floor mesh? ADHD and the drugs to 'fix' it? Reflex anal dilation in children as a means to accuse entirely innocent men of paedophilia? (The last one a particularly egregious example.)
For those who think that an 'adventurous' profit-driven medical industry and doctors with superiority complexes have never in the last few decades ever pressed dubious drugs and procedures and 'conditions' on the population, I still have those cheap shares in that bridge. There are obviously a lot of people posting here who either aren't pilots or at least aren't pilots who need medical certificates from CASA Avmed. Anyone who's been paying attention to CASA Avmed's behaviour over the last dozen or so years will know what I'm talking about. If you think they've been making decisions on the basis of objective evidence and risk, I'll halve the price for those bridge shares. And if you've never met a doctor with superiority complex, you've not met too many doctors.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 12th Sep 2021 at 03:29.
Your GP can be compared to the average airline pilot: he's trained well (or maybe not so well, often depending on where he was trained) to a certain standard in a certain field: ears, nose, throat, is how they refer to it although there's obviously a bit more to it than that. He'll listen to your heart and lungs, look in your throat and ears, and prescribe some pills or refer you to someone who (supposedly) can really tell you what's wrong with you, all in accordance with the current wisdom and AMA SOPs. He knows about as much about immunology as you know about aerodynamics. You can rattle off the lift equation (I hope!) but could you design a wing for an SST? No, you couldn't, and neither could he tell you wtf is really going to happen to you after he injects the experimental vaccine into your arm.
Here’s the titles of some who sit on the ATAGI safety board, want to discuss this with them?:
A/Prof Nigel Crawford - Director, Surveillance of Adverse Events Following Vaccination in the Community (SAEFVIC), Head Immunisation Services Royal Children’s Hospital,
Prof Michelle Giles - Infectious Diseases Physician (Alfred Health, Monash Health, Royal Women’s Hospital, Sunshine Hospital), Adult Immunisation Physician
A/Prof Christopher Blyth - Paediatrician Infectious Diseases Physician and Clinical Microbiologist, University of Western Australia
Prof Allen Cheng - Infectious Disease Physician and Director, Infection Prevention Healthcare Epidemiology Unit
Adj. A/Prof Tony Korman - Director, Monash Infectious Diseases and Microbiology, Monash Health
If someone else wants to wait for you lab rats to show the rest how safe it is over a longer period of time, good luck to him. I just don't see why you lot have your jocks in such a bunch.
That “someone else” can lock themselves in their house for a decade, not travel, not enter venues, not work in aviation and not attend public events whilst all the “lab rats” enjoy being part of society.
Last edited by dr dre; 12th Sep 2021 at 03:30.
Your skepticism has to come from a position of informed knowledge and credible data. I’m not seeing any of it from the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists.
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OK Muttley , I’ll declare an interest.
My father , grandfather and brother were all Doctors.
I am the odd one out . I only have a humble BSc and 35 year career in aviation.
Have you the faintest idea what it takes to become a Doctor , especially a Specialist ?
Let me give you a hint.
Your google-searching is not the equivalent of a 6 year basic degree , internship and 10 years post-graduate training and/or clinical research.
Why it should be necessary to state the blindingly obvious I don’t know , but given the amount of drivel being spouted here and elsewhere, some people clearly cant grasp the idea.
So long as a significant proportion of the population think like that Covid is going to be a slow motion recurring nightmare.
My father , grandfather and brother were all Doctors.
I am the odd one out . I only have a humble BSc and 35 year career in aviation.
Have you the faintest idea what it takes to become a Doctor , especially a Specialist ?
Let me give you a hint.
Your google-searching is not the equivalent of a 6 year basic degree , internship and 10 years post-graduate training and/or clinical research.
Why it should be necessary to state the blindingly obvious I don’t know , but given the amount of drivel being spouted here and elsewhere, some people clearly cant grasp the idea.
So long as a significant proportion of the population think like that Covid is going to be a slow motion recurring nightmare.
dd: You said, straight after quoting my statement about Thalidomide: "I hate it when the anti crowd bring up Thalidomide." I took that as you accusing me of being one of the "anti crowd".
And yes: I do come from a position of informed knowledge and credible data, and that includes information and data about plenty of examples of medical industry 'adventurism' and doctor behaviour well beyond the Thalidomide scandal.
And yes: I do come from a position of informed knowledge and credible data, and that includes information and data about plenty of examples of medical industry 'adventurism' and doctor behaviour well beyond the Thalidomide scandal.
Well please present your credible data which backs up whatever point you’re trying to make regarding the Covid vaccines?
No, Grumps, there's no medical profession conspiracy but I like the way you think. Healthy skepticism.
Your GP can be compared to the average airline pilot:…..He knows about as much about immunology as you know about aerodynamics. You can rattle off the lift equation (I hope!) but could you design a wing for an SST?
Your GP can be compared to the average airline pilot:…..He knows about as much about immunology as you know about aerodynamics. You can rattle off the lift equation (I hope!) but could you design a wing for an SST?
If someone else wants to wait for you lab rats to show the rest how safe it is over a longer period of time, good luck to him. I just don't see why you lot have your jocks in such a bunch.
I've been trying to make a point about why healthy scepticism is justified - the clue is in the word 'healthy' and why it is counter-productive to accuse any sceptic of being a conspiracy theorist or anti-vaxxer or both. And for some reason people seem to pick the bits out of my posts that suit their argument and ignore the other bits.
Let's take a simple and factual example. The NSW CHO takes a different view to the QLD CHO as to the age group which may appropriately be given the AZ vaccine. Why is that?
I'm not suggesting a 'conspiracy' or 'corruption' or that one of the CHOs is a lizard person from the planet Coosebane. If they are both looking at the same data, how do they come to a different view? If they are looking at different data, why are they looking at different data?
If the explanation is that they just come to different views based on the same data but make different judgments about the risks and rewards implicit in the data, then - please - don't come here anonymously and make absolute statements about what everyone should believe and accuse anyone who's sceptical about that of being a conspiracy theorist or an anti-vaxxer.