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Old 16th Aug 2021, 03:40
  #7401 (permalink)  
 
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My opinion, and I reckon a vast majority of Australians is that once that 80% is reached we have given everyone enough chance to mull the stats, understand whats going on and those left have decided to be that way. I'm quite happy that once vaccinated your chance of dieing of this thing is back to flu levels so even 70% we should be considering normal ops and back to business. If WA is still thinking lockdowns after that, its stupid, and makes no sense, time to call Chopper back from the dead and push that state TF out of here.

Can you see the stupidity in your statement? If there are ramifications for not getting vaccinated - then you are being FORCED.
You obviously don't have kids, and don't understand the meaning of the word forced. As right now you can't send your kids to many day care without proof of vaccination. There may be those that provide for unvaccinated kids, but that will be your choice. This ain't about if my statement is stupid or not, its reality and how things already are. You want to fly on my plane and have a medical condition, better have a docs certificate or you don't. Just my companies rules. It's very easy to cite safety rules as flying with the flu or any communicable disease is already considered a no go condition.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 03:59
  #7402 (permalink)  
 
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43In
It's very easy to cite safety rules as flying with the flu or any communicable disease is already considered a no go condition.
Why can't you see the difference here - IF YOU ARE VACCINATED YOU MAY STILL GET THE FLU OR COVID. Your statement above - if you have flu or any communicable disease is already considered a no go condition - SO DOES THAT MEAN I HAVE TO SHOW YOU A FLU VACCINATION PROOF BEFORE I GET ON YOUR PLANE? Are you getting it yet?
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 04:02
  #7403 (permalink)  
 
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The Constitution Watch article quite specifically deals with 'the subject matter of “Forced Vaccinations”' - it's right there in the title,
'A Summary of section 51(xxiiiA) of the Constitution and related case law surrounding the subject matter of “Forced Vaccinations”'

Returning to your original statement,

But now, against the Australian Constitution (now this is important), my medical history will have to be disclosed after they introduce the Vaccine Passport, nationwide.
How does a somewhat nebulous article that purports to address forced vaccinations relate to a Vaccine Passport?

And thanks for the link to an explanation of the Biosecurity (Human Biosecurity Emergency) (Human Coronavirus with Pandemic Potential) Declaration 2020.

How is that even vaguely germane to the contention that having to disclose your medical history is "against the Australian Constitution"?

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Old 16th Aug 2021, 04:16
  #7404 (permalink)  
 
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80% is still no guarantee there will be no lockdowns and borders closure. Elimination is what’s wanted among the premiers (McGowan confirmed WA position on Sunday) in all states except NSW where Gladys has given up on elimination and going for higher vaccination 50% allowed some restriction eased 60% and so on. NSW residents will not be allowed to leave this state for a considerable amount of time, maybe NSW could set up international travel again when 80% is reached for us only and rest of the country can have their own bubble among them self. I would prefer to spend my money in another country than in QLD anyways.

PM was speaking this morning when asked about McGowen position he had nothing to offer other than going back to Poland’s generosity in giving extra Pfizer.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 04:20
  #7405 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SOPS
Melbourne going into night time curfew for 2 weeks……All borders to reopen.. forget it!
Totally superfluous. Everyone is home anyway between 9pm-5am with a 5 km radius. Just another I will obey you master moment. Because of the pub crawl and the party in Nth Caulfield 4 million will now be punished.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 04:30
  #7406 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SHVC
80% is still no guarantee there will be no lockdowns and borders closure. Elimination is what’s wanted among the premiers (McGowan confirmed WA position on Sunday) in all states except NSW where Gladys has given up on elimination and going for higher vaccination 50% allowed some restriction eased 60% and so on. NSW residents will not be allowed to leave this state for a considerable amount of time, maybe NSW could set up international travel again when 80% is reached for us only and rest of the country can have their own bubble among them self. I would prefer to spend my money in another country than in QLD anyways.

PM was speaking this morning when asked about McGowen position he had nothing to offer other than going back to Poland’s generosity in giving extra Pfizer.
Strange that of all the things 160,000 of us every day on average around the world are allowed to die of, some premiers have decided this one is not permitted a single 1.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 05:27
  #7407 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blackout
I think you missed the point of my statement.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2021B00078
The link is to a bill proposed by Craig Kelly. I'd be somewhat surprised if this was to become law.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 05:28
  #7408 (permalink)  
 
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Since we are following the maths, science, and models ( all that fantastic public health stuff ) then may I bring in a proportion. If NSW recorded 156,495 tests : 478 positives then that leaves 8,009,505 non-tests : 24,464 possible positives. So mathematically their could be 24,464 positives cases that have not been tested. If true, they may not know they have it. Why? They are all healthy. So why are the hospitals not saturated and all ICU beds maxed out. I state my case your honour. Open the borders now, with masks, sanitiser and most of the elderly are now vaccinated.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 05:37
  #7409 (permalink)  
 
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Why can't you see the difference here - IF YOU ARE VACCINATED YOU MAY STILL GET THE FLU OR COVID. Your statement above - if you have flu or any communicable disease is already considered a no go condition - SO DOES THAT MEAN I HAVE TO SHOW YOU A FLU VACCINATION PROOF BEFORE I GET ON YOUR PLANE? Are you getting it yet?
Entirely not my decision, that's something you take up with who operates the plane, the airline policy. Not sure what you don't get about that. I've never said I agree with doing any of this, it is how things currently operate and may get worse. As for new work, a company can exclude you because of no HSC certificate, no vaccine is way easier to prove you are at increased threat of lower productivity due to sick leave. You wont even get the chance to argue it, you just wont make it through the application process if you fail to provide a vaccine certificate and its one of the criteria.

Requiring existing workers to vaccinate and maintain vaccination is another matter, SPC Ardmona has already done this, with unanimous support from the workforce apparently. It's pretty easy to push non compliant workers out for other reasons and then mandate all new workers do it. If you've ever worked in low paid work, especially casual you'd know the way they deal with problem workers is just give them reducing hours until they decide to leave for themselves, then just keep the hire cycle going. If you were ever wound down to zero (or close to) hours while others worked more, you should understand they didn't like you for whatever reason and didn't want to bother through the process of officially firing you. Is this all nice and legal, probably not, and that's why there is law suits occasionally, but its rare and they get away with it most times.

Democracy – a casualty of the pandemic

I have a major issue with the headline. I havn't seen any democratic countries turn to dictatorships during the pandemic yet. The pollies are still doing what they were elected to do and will have to face re-election in the near future.

If the general concensus of the population is that they want vaccine passports and restrict those not vaccinated. That is democracy in action. As a business being able to choose entirely who it serves and who it does not (vaccinated or not) is a pure capitalist ideal, the individual business owner can choose entirely how they operate, that would include basic discrimination. Socialism would force the business to serve the masses, as that would be best for the community.

I think the correct term would be sacrificing basic rights as a casualty of the pandemic.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 05:44
  #7410 (permalink)  
 
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Well, we'll all know sooner or later. Clive is going to test it in the high court it seems re WA's plans to have the jab to enter.

But isn't Anna doing same? Will he challenge her?
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:06
  #7411 (permalink)  
 
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Democracy my ass. Facebook and Google data collection, our current government COVID apps, big brother watching, hidden speed cameras, the introduction of thousands of new laws per year with none of the old ones repealed and the stripping of union powers - these muppets have been stripping our democracy for the past 80 years.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:14
  #7412 (permalink)  
 
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Democracy my ass. Facebook and Google data collection, our current government COVID apps, big brother watching, hidden speed cameras, the introduction of thousands of new laws per year with none of the old ones repealed and the stripping of union powers - these muppets have been stripping our democracy for the past 80 years.
Nothing to do with democracy apart from all those muppets being elected. When people in general realise its not a football match that picking liberal or labor or greens is not a competition, but actually alters the direction of policy, then maybe things will change. When people vote cause, Kennet was too arogant, or Kirner was too fat and female or Abbot seemed to not like women. Then that's the failure of democracy.

Learn to educate yourself in politics, pick the team that favours your own point of view, in reality, not via slogans. And kick the ones that don't perform.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:22
  #7413 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LapSap
Strange that of all the things 160,000 of us every day on average around the world are allowed to die of, some premiers have decided this one is not permitted a single 1.


gladys saying as long as we have delta, or presumably any other similar variant, even at 80% vaccinated we will still have restrictions.

hey Gladys. You can F*CK RIGHT OFF WITH THAT. Grow a pair and be a F*CKING leader and an adult. People will die from it. Get used to it. Stop your bull****.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:22
  #7414 (permalink)  
 
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Most politicians are nothing but puppets to big corp. The ones that have any balls get shot down quickly.
Because they know the plebs just barrack for Labor or Liberal with very little swinging, virtually no political education. Business on the other hand knows exactly how important who's in power is to your bottom line and how they can operate.

You want them to listen to the people, then you need the masses to actually care at an election and swing with the actual policies.

I used to be staunch anti labor, why, hate for what happened in '89. I've gotten over that and realised that the Coalition has done just as much damage in the 90s with privatisation of airports and airservices than the strike cost. I realised the Egos that cost in '89 are gone, but the policies that have driven GA to oblivion are still pursued.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:45
  #7415 (permalink)  
 
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43In -
Entirely not my decision, that's something you take up with who operates the plane, the airline policy. Not sure what you don't get about that.
Mate, I'm sorry, it is you that is not getting what I am saying.
Ok I'll try and put it another way.
Forget about covid -
Currently you claim - that with your company - If you have the Flu - you are not permitted to fly. Is that true? I believe it, ie if you present with a fever etc then you may not be permitted to travel. BUT your company, does not, and have never asked, upon check in to show proof that the passenger has had a Flu Vaccination.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I AM SAYING.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 06:51
  #7416 (permalink)  
 
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Currently you claim - that with your company - If you have the Flu - you are not permitted to fly. Is that true? I believe it, ie if you present with a fever etc then you may not be permitted to travel. BUT your company, does not, and have never asked, upon check in to show proof that the passenger has had a Flu Vaccination.
DO YOU SEE WHAT I AM SAYING.
Yes I know, what I'm saying is in the future I have no say in what direction they go in. They might require a vaccine passport, nothing I can do about that. France has mandated it for train travel, so the likelihood increases as other similar nations adopt it. How it would be practical or ethical or within human rights, I will have no say in that.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 07:23
  #7417 (permalink)  
 
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So if I have HIV, am I still allowed to go to bars and procure sex, or do I get locked down with police knocking on my door with stay home orders because im infected.
If you sleep with a partner without telling them you are HIV positive, you can be jailed. So yes you can go to bars etc and procure whatever and you must disclose any diseases that could infect them that you are aware of. HIV is only transmitted via blood etc. You can not walk past someone and infect them.

A partner can actually sue you if they can prove you knowingly slept with them knowing you had an STDs. Same way you can be fined or sued for spitting on someone as its known to spread disease of just about anything.

The idea of lockdowns and isolation is to limit the spread opportunity for easily communicable diseases that can transmit easily to unwilling participants.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 07:31
  #7418 (permalink)  
 
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You are welcome!
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 07:46
  #7419 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
Because they know the plebs just barrack for Labor or Liberal with very little swinging, virtually no political education. Business on the other hand knows exactly how important who's in power is to your bottom line and how they can operate.

You want them to listen to the people, then you need the masses to actually care at an election and swing with the actual policies.

I used to be staunch anti labor, why, hate for what happened in '89. I've gotten over that and realised that the Coalition has done just as much damage in the 90s with privatisation of airports and airservices than the strike cost. I realised the Egos that cost in '89 are gone, but the policies that have driven GA to oblivion are still pursued.
Precisely!
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 08:17
  #7420 (permalink)  
 
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As the Vaccine does not stop transmission and the states want COVID Zero , then it cannot happen , people will still get sick and die from Covid , smaller numbers maybe but they cannot achieve what they are after .
Once everyone has the chance to be vaccinated then it’s a personal risk to go without , it’s not going to stop the pandemic.
Please change the thread name to All Borders never to open please !
pS can’t someone get rid of the Dick Smith ads please !
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