All borders to reopen.
Yaaabut...
When the unvaccinated end up clogging up all the nation's ICUs, despite the 'risk management/protection protocols' used by the unvaccinated while roaming free, the outcome is that there's no room left for the vaccinated when they have their heart attacks, serious accidents and other medical crises.
When the unvaccinated end up clogging up all the nation's ICUs, despite the 'risk management/protection protocols' used by the unvaccinated while roaming free, the outcome is that there's no room left for the vaccinated when they have their heart attacks, serious accidents and other medical crises.
Because we don't want to watch hospital bed confessions from you when you feel it's important that others learn from your experience, that you 'regret' not getting vaccinated and making all those anti-vaccination posts. It's like running into a burning building without suitable firefighting PPE and then complaining of 3rd degree burns.
My best guess! Most of us expect to be vaccinated and at least 80% of us in the first quarter of 2022, that's both doses and time to be deemed effectively protected. I would expect masks and whatever safety procedures to be in place by then. I would expect to see domestic travel to rise progressively to around 60% of precovid capacity and International up to around 40% by end 2023. All that assuming there is no breakout strain that renders the vaccine ineffective and the long term implications of the virus do not effect life expectancy, reproduction or any significant disability. Should any of those things become apparent, vaccinated or not, then I would expect the borders to remain restricted both internally and externally in some significant way.
I will certainly not be flying anywhere, internationally or domestically while the threat of a lockdown is in place. A lockdown that can take place at any time and go on for an indefinite period. Same for border closures. I will also not be booking any theatre or other tickets or be booking any hotels within a driving distance. And I suspect many will be in the same mindset.
so good luck with your 60% prediction.
Yaaabut...
When the unvaccinated end up clogging up all the nation's ICUs, despite the 'risk management/protection protocols' used by the unvaccinated while roaming free, the outcome is that there's no room left for the vaccinated when they have their heart attacks, serious accidents and other medical crises.
When the unvaccinated end up clogging up all the nation's ICUs, despite the 'risk management/protection protocols' used by the unvaccinated while roaming free, the outcome is that there's no room left for the vaccinated when they have their heart attacks, serious accidents and other medical crises.
On that note, NSW doesn't appear to have learned any of the lessons in VIC, including PPE as observed in the news. The common quote is " what on earth have they been doing in the last 12 months, have they learned nothing"
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Yaaabut...
When the unvaccinated end up clogging up all the nation's ICUs, despite the 'risk management/protection protocols' used by the unvaccinated while roaming free, the outcome is that there's no room left for the vaccinated when they have their heart attacks, serious accidents and other medical crises.
When the unvaccinated end up clogging up all the nation's ICUs, despite the 'risk management/protection protocols' used by the unvaccinated while roaming free, the outcome is that there's no room left for the vaccinated when they have their heart attacks, serious accidents and other medical crises.
I will certainly not be flying anywhere, internationally or domestically while the threat of a lockdown is in place. A lockdown that can take place at any time and go on for an indefinite period. Same for border closures. I will also not be booking any theatre or other tickets or be booking any hotels within a driving distance. And I suspect many will be in the same mindset.
so good luck with your 60% prediction.
so good luck with your 60% prediction.
Because we don't want to watch hospital bed confessions from you when you feel it's important that others learn from your experience, that you 'regret' not getting vaccinated and making all those anti-vaccination posts. It's like running into a burning building without suitable firefighting PPE and then complaining of 3rd degree burns.
But but our hospital systems can cope with a huge outbreak because all state governments have planned for such an emergency, have enough beds in their hospitals to cover such an emergency and have enough medical staff on the payroll to adequately handle such an emergency. It has to be true because from their protected and overstaffed premium office suites our PM and Premiers have told us so. They really have their finger on the pulse so to speak.
And all those new doctors and ICU nurses will be cascading out of our local training institutions, soon.
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release (Note- Deaths due to influenza)
Regarding hospital systems being over run:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...16-p57se1.html
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release (Note- Deaths due to influenza)
https://covidlive.com.au/report/hospitalised (Note- Total Hospitalised)
https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/...lu-flucurr.htm (Note- Hospital Admissions)
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...16-p57se1.html
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release (Note- Deaths due to influenza)
https://covidlive.com.au/report/hospitalised (Note- Total Hospitalised)
https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/...lu-flucurr.htm (Note- Hospital Admissions)
What do you think of places like Florida, where there are far fewer restrictions and there is much more widespread transmission, measured in the thousands to tens of thousands of cases per day, and at the most recent figures I've seen, approximately 16,000 people hospitalised out of a population roughly 2/3rds that of Australia? Their ICU's are at approx 90% capacity, with roughly 50% of those beds taken up by covid patients, and the capacity is limited by the number of healthcare workers available, not by the number of physical beds or ventilators or equipment present, so it's not a quick process to easily ramp up to deal with large numbers of new patients over any length of time.
Their ICU's are at approx 90% capacity, with roughly 50% of those beds taken up by covid patients, and the capacity is limited by the number of healthcare workers available, not by the number of physical beds or ventilators or equipment present, so it's not a quick process to easily ramp up to deal with large numbers of new patients over any length of time.
This is a better site for data on influenza. It has actual numbers relating to the flu, rather than combining pneumonia with it.
https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/...rr.htm#current
Few reasons flu is down during our covid outbreak, is same way we have kept covid down. Most of our flu comes in from overseas. Then add lockdowns, etc.
https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/...rr.htm#current
Few reasons flu is down during our covid outbreak, is same way we have kept covid down. Most of our flu comes in from overseas. Then add lockdowns, etc.
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If one person alone makes that decision, it probably won't make any real difference. If any significant number of people all make that same decision, there will be a reservoir of covid circulating among that group being transmitted between themselves and others, mutating as viruses do, into potentially more infectious or harmful forms that are more dangerous or transmissible to the vaccinated - as has already happened with the different variants of covid mutating in India, South America and other places. That puts at risk the vaccinated, the medically unable to be vaccinated or frail, and the unvaccinated alike. So their individual choices impact the broader community. Plenty of people have felt that their own risk management/protection protocols were sufficient, and still died on a ventilator.
For those averse to reading the flu document in 2019 there were 3000 odd hospitalisations due to flu only 246 were admitted to ICU. During the season 812 were listed as having flu symptomology when they died, ie died "with flu". Just under 300,000 were laboratory tested positive for flu that season, you could safely assume 5-10 times more than that got the sniffles from flu that year.
I don't have the time to fully research it but 2020, 28,000 covid cases laboratory confirmed, with seroprevalence putting actual numbers around 3 x that, so around 90,000 cases and 909 deaths. I'm pretty sure hospitalisations and ICU admittance was way higher proportion than the flu.
The difference mainly is that 2019 the flu did what it wanted, in 2020 Covid was mostly controlled by isolation and lockdown. I assume given the flu distribution you would probably see 300,000 symptomatic cases of covid with unrestricted freedom and no vacination in the same year if it was let loose.
I don't have the time to fully research it but 2020, 28,000 covid cases laboratory confirmed, with seroprevalence putting actual numbers around 3 x that, so around 90,000 cases and 909 deaths. I'm pretty sure hospitalisations and ICU admittance was way higher proportion than the flu.
The difference mainly is that 2019 the flu did what it wanted, in 2020 Covid was mostly controlled by isolation and lockdown. I assume given the flu distribution you would probably see 300,000 symptomatic cases of covid with unrestricted freedom and no vacination in the same year if it was let loose.
Last edited by 43Inches; 17th Aug 2021 at 04:11.
I am defending the right of people to CHOOSE. The reality is, the vaccine was developed under emergency provisions and the long time side effects have not been tested. I respect people's choice to take it or not. Delta is more infectious and it will infect vaccinated people as well. I also find it pretty immoral to suggest that medical assistance should be provided in preference for vaccinated people. We know that smoking causes lung cancer- I guess if there is only 1 ventilator avail - you would say that the non smoker should get it. People here are losing the plot.
If I get vaccinated, I protect the non-vaccinated by reducing the chance of transmission, should I become infected by COVID. By an individual "choosing" to not get vaccinated, they put me at risk. I don't think that's ok.
A summarised/altered quote (wrongly attributed to the French President) goes something like this:
"I no longer have any intention of sacrificing my life, my time, my freedom and the adolescence of my children, as well as their right to study properly, for those who refuse to be vaccinated. This time you stay at home, not us."
I would have no problem prioritising ICU beds for vaccinated citizens (suffering from whatever illness they may have) over non vaccinated citizens (due choice, not medical impediment) afflicted by COVID - they've made their choice.
You didnt think 4124 cases that died due to Influenza / Pneumonia in 2019 was a cause for concern. Is that why you didnt advocate for Hard Border closures, Self Isolation and Vaccine Passports back then?
To put in perspective of 300,000 actual diagnosed flu cases only 246 made it to ICU. So the majority (of those that died) were not admitted to hospital with severe flu symptoms like Covid does to you. The rest of the 900 were most likely old aged or compromised and just had flu at the time of death. The difference with Covid is that last year when listed "died with covid" on your death cert Covid was the primary cause in 75% of cases, vs flu which would only account for 100 or so out of that 900 or around 10%. This year I would like to see the stats on "died due to covid" vs "died with covid" as I think most of the vaccine related will be a case of "died with" not "from".
Last edited by 43Inches; 17th Aug 2021 at 04:46.
Chronic Snoozer - TSK TSK TSK - I have NEVER made a single anti Vaccination post. I am, in fact, vaccinated, and currently still flying. I am defending the right of people to CHOOSE. The reality is, the vaccine was developed under emergency provisions and the long time side effects have not been tested. I respect people's choice to take it or not. Delta is more infectious and it will infect vaccinated people as well. I also find it pretty immoral to suggest that medical assistance should be provided in preference for vaccinated people. We know that smoking causes lung cancer- I guess if there is only 1 ventilator avail - you would say that the non smoker should get it. People here are losing the plot.
Happy?
I would have no problem prioritising ICU beds for vaccinated citizens (suffering from whatever illness they may have) over non vaccinated citizens (due choice, not medical impediment) afflicted by COVID - they've made their choice.
If you can quote me an ICU doctor or nurse who's explained how they can practically work out who is voluntarily unvaccinated when presenting to an ICU, please post the link.
And what of children who've just complied with whatever their parents have decided about vaccination?
