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Old 15th Aug 2021, 22:39
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Vaccination passports

As had been said several times before, vaccination passports aren’t new.

I came across my old vaccination record the other week (passport sized pale yellow booklet): smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, and another I’ve forgotten.

Had to show this before you could gain entry to many other countries. Not vaccinated = no entry.

Not a medical record; just vaccinations.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 22:39
  #7382 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cirressna
Hang up the wings, zero is here to stay.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw-...14-p58iqs.html
If Australia did open up at 70 per cent adult vaccination with daily cases in the hundreds, as they were in NSW on Saturday, modelling from the Doherty Institute suggests 385,000 coronavirus cases and almost 1500 deaths could occur in six months.
They had us for a moment there.
Holy snappin' duckshyte! 1,500 deaths in 6 months? That's like, what? 3,000 deaths a year?

That's less than half of that caused by voluntary tobacco smoking, according to the ABS and Cancer Council. Guess they'd better ban the durries, now, too!

Ciressna is right though. No Premier, except Gladys most likely, is going to accept a thousand cases a day in a 70-80% vaccinated population. The Democratic Peoples Republic of Westralia, Af-Danistan and Queen-P's-Land have all pinned their re-election campaigns on the "But only I can keep (kept) you safe!" mantra. They - particularly McGoose - will never tolerate such case numbers, even if every man, woman and child in the Country is double-vaccinated against Covid.

As I referred to previously, look at a country like Iceland, that is significantly vaccinated and extrapolate their case percentages to our population, and see what you get. Do the same for the UK and the numbers aren't that different. Around 7000 (Iceland) - 10,000 (UK) cases per day in a vaccinated population.

As of today, the UK has 89.4% of their adult population with one jab, 76.7% have had two, and they're racked up 26,750 cases, and (only) 61 deaths (Source). Our population is ~38% of the UK's so, there's 10,000 cases right there. And 25 deaths.

Iceland - a global leader in vaccination has 64 new cases (Source), with our population being 7422% of theirs, so 4,700 new cases with their 14 day average being 396.2, or for our population, 7,500 a day...

Israel, by all reports one of the first countries to introduce the nationwide vaccine is around 78% of eligible people double-vaccinated (Source), yet even they racked up 4,100 new cases on Saturday (Source) against a population of 9.0M (34% of ours), so an Australian-equivalent 12,000 cases / day!

Covid-Zero? We've got no hope, nor does any other country, but so long as we have state leaders - and their lapdog CHO's pushing a Covid-Zero agenda - Australia as a nation has got stuff-all chance of an internal reopening, no matter what our vaccination numbers are.

And then, what's the outcome of that? Indefinite lockout of NSW? Temporary lockout of Victoria? Permanent G2G passes so the DPRW knows who's coming and going, and where you will stay while in the DPRW and (of course) being able to track you via their G2GNow app, that they now mandate you must use?

Which section of the Australian Constitution do you think would be contravened?
I'm not sure it'll be introduced nationwide, but in the event some states require you to have it, but your home state does not, then s.117 would apply, as was found by Stephen.J in Henry v Boehm and covered in the Street judgement, which is currently the litmus test for s.117 cases. The reason s.117 would apply is simple, because (for example) if WA required all incoming travelers (but not citizens travelling within WA) to have a Vaccine Passport, the "disability or discrimination" would not be equally applicable as the WA resident was already in that other state. Being WA.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 23:10
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Most importantly our Politicians, senior bureaucrats and CMO’s all have their jobs still. In fact, no job keeper for them as they have had 2 pay rises in 18 months. Heck, most get to avoid hotel quarantine and move about rather freely. Funny thing that. I mean, they are such important people (in their own eyes).

I think Australia’s population will (barely) tolerate this lockdown **** until Scotty’s magical 80% vaccination figure is reached. After that, well who knows. Hopefully millions will descend upon each politicians home and demand their freedom that way.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 23:16
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Yeah 1500 deaths sounds like the high end anyway, once vaccination reaches 75%+ combined with Australias sparse population outside the city centers it will not spread like it is in those countries. I will definitely "call bollocks" to any suggestion lockdowns are necessary after that. The sad thing is we could have hit the targets by now, or kept the virus out with some simple smart measures. Sydney is as overrun by covid as Kabul is with Taliban.... It's just band-aids on shotgun wounds until the vax target is met.

Sydneys death rate is already way down on last year and compared to Melbourne. One simple reason the vulnerable and older are mostly vaccinated and isolated, with better protocols to keep them safe.

Last edited by 43Inches; 15th Aug 2021 at 23:29.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 23:29
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Originally Posted by KRviator
.

As of today, the UK has 89.4% of their adult population with one jab, 76.7% have had two, and they're racked up 26,750 cases, and (only) 61 deaths (Source). Our population is ~38% of the UK's so, there's 10,000 cases right there. And 25 deaths.
It is weekend in the UK. We don’t die as much at weekends, it is a reporting thing. UK death rate is 635 a week and rising gently.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 23:33
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It is weekend in the UK. We don’t die as much at weekends, it is a reporting thing. UK daily death rate is over 100 a day and rising gently.
I'd be interested to know if the daily death rates are "due covid" or "with covid". Because now that the virus is so wide spread the chance of dieing "with covid" is much higher but the virus is not the underlying cause of death. This is a genuine question, as it directly relates to how deadly the actual virus is, and I don't know how the UK reports deaths in the mainstream. The monthly mortality figures definitely make the distinction, but they are analysed before release a month or two after.

PS after checking some reporting websites the realtime data is based on whether a person had tested positive within 28 days before or had covid listed on the death certificate. Both in no way are an effective method of determining whether covid actually caused the death. The mortality stats will definitely be very important here to understand what is happening. In past instances without vaccinations Covid on the death cert was about 20-30% higher instances than Covid as the underlying cause of death. For those confused by it, the Death certificate will list the main cause of death, plus anything else that "may" have contributed, covid will be listed if infected, but not determined to be the cause. These numbers are then put in a database using a digitised medical code with no explanation. J128/U071 is died from Pneumonia/cause Covid.

Last edited by 43Inches; 15th Aug 2021 at 23:48.
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Old 15th Aug 2021, 23:35
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Originally Posted by Paragraph377
Most importantly our Politicians, senior bureaucrats and CMO’s all have their jobs still. In fact, no job keeper for them as they have had 2 pay rises in 18 months. Heck, most get to avoid hotel quarantine and move about rather freely. Funny thing that. I mean, they are such important people (in their own eyes).

I think Australia’s population will (barely) tolerate this lockdown **** until Scotty’s magical 80% vaccination figure is reached. After that, well who knows. Hopefully millions will descend upon each politicians home and demand their freedom that way.
Or we could do it the traditional way and have an Election
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 00:21
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I think this will go beyond partisan politics in the months ahead when vaccinations rates high and citizens still losing their livelihoods and freedoms. Vietnam-era Moratorium marches come to mind. Significantly bigger as this bureaucratic and governance train wreck continues with a disease that once vaccinated, younger generations will accept as being largely non-fatal to them.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 00:25
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Is it too soon for a Shaun Micallef comedy sketch ripping off the world leaders arguing over who's not doing their fair share in this population cull target.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 00:47
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Not confirmed, ruthless Dan considering an all Melbourne curfew, just listening to 3aw. Whatever it takes to squash 20 nagging cases. More to come in the presser I guess.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 01:24
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As had been said several times before, vaccination passports aren’t new.

I came across my old vaccination record the other week (passport sized pale yellow booklet): smallpox, cholera, yellow fever, typhoid, and another I’ve forgotten.

Had to show this before you could gain entry to many other countries. Not vaccinated = no entry.

Not a medical record; just vaccinations.
Yeah the difference is you have a CHOICE if you want to go to a country that has those vaccination requirements and you don't want to get vaccinated. It is not the same as if you need to buy groceries, or fly domestically. A vaccination passport in the domestic sense will see riots and protests.

Speaking of riots and protests - I haven't seen any riots or protests in the UK with groups chanting "END THE FREEDOMS - BRING BACK THE LOCKDOWNS" .....

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Old 16th Aug 2021, 01:33
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Originally Posted by Turnleft080
Not confirmed, ruthless Dan considering an all Melbourne curfew, just listening to 3aw. Whatever it takes to squash 20 nagging cases. More to come in the presser I guess.
Judging unscientifically by my tram ride home from work yesterday (anecdotes are not data), there is a significant minority who are not complying with the spirit of the rules in Victoria. Not doing at 20 cases per day does not seem to have worked out well for NSW.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 01:43
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No one is being forced to vaccinate. There will come a time that you will have problems of access to places and jobs without appropriate vaccination. This is entirely legal, like mandating safety equipment or already as vaccinations required for day care attendance etc. Things that are required by basic rights will not be able to restrict, such as access to basic health care (hospitals). But a shop/doctor/airline/library/restaurant etc etc... could place requirements to be vaccinated to enter.

https://business.gov.au/people/customers/refuse-service

Right of refusal of service is acceptable for safety grounds, and also comfort of other clients. You could refuse entry to someone that is physically offensive in odour.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 01:55
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Yes I agree the chance for discrimination increases with any restrictive process. So vaccine passports, well who knows, there's also the worry that these "passports" turn into "national ID" cards. Something the Coalition has been pushing on for a while, which starts to encroach on police state technology. In the US the actual amount of restriction from businesses is low, it really serves no purpose other than block a member of the community from buying your product.

Most people and businesses would already not want anyone obviously sick on the premises and they would be asked to leave or barred entry.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:01
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ACT 19 cases yesterday so things are taking off there. Lockdown extended another two weeks until early Sept.


As for any talk of lockdowns after reaching 80% vaccinated, pure irresponsible idiocy. WA premier talking of it and by the sounds of it the NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant. And it sounds like the NSW premier agrees. Where is the leadership.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:02
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Vaccine passports...

So again we have Scomo showing national leadership. Open to a vaccination passport "but has to be done by the states."

No wonder we are a continent of 8 countries.

And mandating vaccines for employers. Oh, it will be a "reasonableness test". Gee that will give confidence to an employer to have a decision in the best interests of their business knowing that they might lose their house if an employee sues and wins.


and Darwin and Katherine now locking down.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:10
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As has been said earlier, he could take the reins, but oh the responsibility.

He really is showing he should be in opposition with Albo, who is even worse at saying anything that might resemble a policy or stance. "oh the states and businesses can handle that", when it goes pear shaped I can blame them and earn brownie points. If it works I can claim I set that up.

I remember a few months back, " oh the poor citizens of the states, locked away, they should be open like NSW with gold standard contact tracing". Now "The only way out of this is swift hard lockdowns...."
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:17
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Melbourne going into night time curfew for 2 weeks……All borders to reopen.. forget it!
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:30
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Originally Posted by Foxxster
ACT 19 cases yesterday so things are taking off there. Lockdown extended another two weeks until early Sept.


As for any talk of lockdowns after reaching 80% vaccinated, pure irresponsible idiocy. WA premier talking of it and by the sounds of it the NSW chief health officer Kerry Chant. And it sounds like the NSW premier agrees. Where is the leadership.
If we get to 80% and they decide to still lockdown, then it will be total anarchy to the point of storming parliament. Us, the public can do no more. Our duty has been done. Our freedom is 100% deserved. I'm sounding like Maximus.
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Old 16th Aug 2021, 02:37
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UNBELIEVABLE - GLADYS just reported on 7 deaths and she said regrettably 1 15 year old and was going to leave it to Chant to give the details

From the ABC just now - Six of the deaths were aged in their 70s and 80s and one was in their 40s in what was the highest number of daily fatalities NSW has recorded since the pandemic began.

A 15-year-old boy who contracted pneumococcal meningitis and COVID-19 also died but Sydney's Children Hospital confirmed the virus was not the cause of Osama Subuh's death. YET GLADYS REPORTED IT !!!!!! This is getting beyond a joke.

43In - You will have litigation from here to eternity if you mandate vaccinations.
No one is being forced to vaccinate. There will come a time that you will have problems of access to places and jobs without appropriate vaccination
Can you see the stupidity in your statement? If there are ramifications for not getting vaccinated - then you are being FORCED.

It is like the religious concept of God giving you "free will". The dogma goes like this from apologists - "You don't have to accept Jesus - God gave you free will - but you you don't accept Jesus when you die you will go to HELL and be tortured"
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