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Old 17th Aug 2021, 06:14
  #7461 (permalink)  
 
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Hmmm. People don't take the time to read posts, do they? They love to get all excited and post back on full-automatic...

And what if the non-vaccinated citizen does not have his or her 'Vaccination Passport' or Medicare Card in the pocket of their trackpants when run over at a pedestrian crossing and taken by ambulance, unconscious and critically injured, to an ICU?
Well, they're not in ICU because of COVID, are they? So of course they deserve a bed. As per my initial post.

If you can quote me an ICU doctor or nurse who's explained how they can practically work out who is voluntarily unvaccinated when presenting to an ICU, please post the link.
When someone is admitted to ICU SUFFERING FROM COVID, they've probably not been vaccinated - there are VERY few people who medically CANNOT be vaccinated. You could ask them or their family? Check out their anti-vaxxer Facebook posts perhaps? Call their GP? Wouldn't be hard to work it out...

And what of children who've just complied with whatever their parents have decided about vaccination?
Good point - I hadn't thought of them - we'll exclude under 18s from the plan. See, with discussion, we're getting somewhere!



Last edited by josephfeatherweight; 17th Aug 2021 at 23:04. Reason: Added the word "probably" as suggested by other poster.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 06:37
  #7462 (permalink)  
 
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It's one thing to maybe disagree or dislike the anti-vax, but you will never get a situation where an ICU medical professional will refuse to treat them, unless it came to a point the virus mutated so much it was a huge danger to them.

The treating doctor might put on a frown or an unhappy, "thank's for wasting our time", but they won't intentionally leave you to die.

Friday night your local hospital will be full of drunks, drug afflicted and the results of both, far more preventable and facility wasting than covid patients, vaxxed or not. At least lockdown has reduced this as well.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 06:54
  #7463 (permalink)  
 
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When someone is admitted to ICU SUFFERING FROM COVID, it's pretty obvious whether they've been vaccinated or not.
Bollocks.

And due to minimum post length requirements: Complete bollocks.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 07:32
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Errrmmm, if anyone is labouring under the misconception that vaccination is a guarantee that you won't suffer from Covid, best to recalibrate them as best we can. It is an issue directly relevant to when the borders will be opened, which is I think the topic of this thread?
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 07:46
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The whole point of the vaccine is to reduce the severe effects of Covid i.e. death from said virus. It is also claimed to reduce the impact on the lungs and heart. One dose is slightly effective but two doses are better. So the statement about being admitted to ICU is an indication of not being vaccinated should have the word "probably" added to it. Even then its is no indication of how many doses the person has had. LB is correct in that the point of being vaccinated is to allow for society to be able to live with Covid and have the borders opened.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 07:49
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Exactly, LL. Two doses are better, but aren't a 100% guarantee that the double-dosed won't contract and suffer from Covid.

Last edited by Lead Balloon; 17th Aug 2021 at 08:05. Reason: Fixed typo
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 08:17
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So the statement about being admitted to ICU is an indication of not being vaccinated should have the word "probably" added to it.
That's a fair point - agreed!
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 08:25
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https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ew-cases-today
The tracker showing 70% by 9 Nov and 80% by 28th Nov. You get that feeling when the dates arrive the premiers and their more powerful CHOs will shift the goal posts again.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 08:35
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I’ve had both doses of the killer AZ to hold off the deadly and lethal Delta with its .5% mortality rate.

However, as easy as that choice was, it’s a CHOICE and I find it a little rich that all the ‘fraidy cats are deciding who should get medical treatment and who shouldn’t.

The vaccine doesn’t make anyone immune to COVID but reduces the severity. If people don’t want to have the jab, and subsequently die, then in my book they’ve made their choice and died in freedom.

But it’s a choice. Just because you’re dropping bricks in you speedos doesn’t give you the right to insist others are vaccinated with serums which are, if not experimental, then fairly new to use.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 08:37
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Meanwhile in Canada.

"As soon as possible in the Fall and no later than the end of October, the Government of Canada will require employees in the federally regulated air, rail, and marine transportation sectors to be vaccinated. The vaccination requirement will also extend to certain travellers. This includes all commercial air travellers," his office said.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 08:54
  #7471 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
I’ve had both doses of the killer AZ to hold off the deadly and lethal Delta with its .5% mortality rate.

However, as easy as that choice was, it’s a CHOICE and I find it a little rich that all the ‘fraidy cats are deciding who should get medical treatment and who shouldn’t.

The vaccine doesn’t make anyone immune to COVID but reduces the severity. If people don’t want to have the jab, and subsequently die, then in my book they’ve made their choice and died in freedom.

But it’s a choice. Just because you’re dropping bricks in you speedos doesn’t give you the right to insist others are vaccinated with serums which are, if not experimental, then fairly new to use.
Totally agree ,
Im firmly in the camp that we have to work out a way to live with it . Vaccinations seemed to be logical way but if someone does not want to be vaccinated that’s their right. However if you don’t then you can’t ask to be treated the same . Why should the whole population be locked down , live with curfews , travel restrictions and pay the same for health insurance ? How hard is it to be given a QR code once vaccinated to get access to travel , sports arenas , pubs ?
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 09:17
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Class division, who would have thought in this Nation! There's only 2 sides to this BS con job, pick one & live with it without trying to destroy your fellow man & abusing each other but I guess that is the Aussie way!
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 09:53
  #7473 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by minigundiplomat
But it’s a choice. Just because you’re dropping bricks in you speedos doesn’t give you the right to insist others are vaccinated with serums which are, if not experimental, then fairly new to use.
Vaccinations are a common, run of the mill thing. But if 50 % choose not to vaccinate then we going to have issues. I don't have a problem with choice but it has to be better than just 'I don't want to'. With 4.5 nearly billion vaccines already administered, exactly who is dropping bricks in the speedos again?
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 11:09
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So many people putting trust in the Prime Minister and Premiers comments that once this magical number of 70 to 80% vaccination is reached, it will be freedom all around! Really? Show me the evidence. Show me the accurate data to prove that this will be the case, that 80% will do the trick. Not 81% and not 89.6% but 80% apparently. Show me the risk modelling factoring in known and latent risks.

Keep in mind that Scotty just shoved a giant pineapple up the ass of the people of Afghanistan by ‘getting the data wrong’ (they didn’t think the Taliban would take Kabul until December) and he has been complicit in throwing millions of people under the bus. Yeah, sure Scott, I believe you in regards to your ‘COVID freedom at 80% vaccinated promise’. The PMC spin machine is churning out promises as fast as the reserve bank is printing off dollar bills!
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 11:16
  #7475 (permalink)  
 
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I don't believe a word he says either, but 80% has got to be better for everyone than 25%.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 11:41
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For those putting trust in our maestros of political BS and their promise of ‘80% vaccinated and its back to normal for Australia’, you may want to watch this clip.

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Old 17th Aug 2021, 11:46
  #7477 (permalink)  
 
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I don't trust any of them, thing is they set a bar, the people are fed up. When that 80% is hit, no one is going to listen to them if they try to keep things locked down, they know that, its already coming apart at the seams in Sydney, Melbourne is not far off.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 12:05
  #7478 (permalink)  
 
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Why wait until reaching 80%. They have been saying daily lately, that only some freedoms will come back
80% would be the top mark tbh, if things don't start to ease up passing 60% and especially 70% I think disobedience will rapidly increase.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 12:32
  #7479 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blackout
Why wait until reaching 80%. They have been saying daily lately, that only some freedoms will come back
I think people are waiting to give everyone a chance to get vaccinated. That’s only fair given the complete f*ck up of a rollout.

Once we get to that point, all bets are off.
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Old 17th Aug 2021, 12:53
  #7480 (permalink)  
 
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Pretty sure restrictions on international travel will be around for at least another year, but domestic travel and most restrictions will be gone. The most she could be talking about is masks and social distancing, the basic stuff. Although Gladys could go for broke and do anything, she's stuffed at the next election anyway.

I think people are waiting to give everyone a chance to get vaccinated. That’s only fair given the complete f*ck up of a rollout.
Spot on, the average reasonable person is following the rules and hanging on those magic 70-80%, which most of us know is about everyone that wants to be vaccinated done and dusted. Once its close to that you wont see much tolerance of further lockdowns without some try at opening up and letting it rip. That will be the main driver, not whether the pollies want to or not.
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