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Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 11th Dec 2019, 01:15
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However the union says it has only asked for a 3 per cent wage rise, with the 15 per cent figures based on a exaggerated costing of non-salary claims.
Can anyone elaborate on this quote?
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:04
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So has Joyce gotten to AIPA? Received an email stating that AIPA has advised anyone who joined AFAP on or after Nov 18 (when the ballot was made) will not be protected during PIA. Why are they now acting against the interests of the JQ pilot group? Is the purpose to drive a wedge between what is for the first time, an effectively unified pilot body??

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:33
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I can't imagine anyone will want to be apart of AIPA anymore, it seems like they have sold out. maybe a bit of "if you scratch my back, I will scratch yours" coming up to the next couple of EA's being brought to the table?

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 11:53
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Surely itís because by law if you were not part of the vote then any action you took would be ďunprotectedĒ. If that were the case Jetstar could sack you. So AIPA are assisting their members in not getting fired. Isnít that the basic job of a union??

Whether AIPA should also poll for PIA is a separate and valid debate but explaining the law to your members so they donít jeopardise their careers seems like a sensible move.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 12:02
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Originally Posted by LostontheLOC
I can't imagine anyone will want to be apart of AIPA anymore, it seems like they have sold out. maybe a bit of "if you scratch my back, I will scratch yours" coming up to the next couple of EA's being brought to the table?
I donít have a dog in this race. Iíd suggest AIPA legal has certain advice from their lawyers. AFAP has certain advice from theirs.

Legal Ďopinioní is just that and it isnít worth a pinch of s$&t if it goes to court. The court will decide. Is there precedent to support either sideís position?

Do you want to be the test case in court that proves AIPAís advice was correct? The fines if youíre wrong are significant. $12.6k personally per instance if I recall. You could be up for 25k for this weekend if youíre not protected.

Both sets of lawyers seem to agree if you were an AFAP member at the time of the ballot youíre protected. I assume the vast bulk of Jetstar pilots were AFAP members at the time of the ballot. If youíve joined since is it worth the risk? Will your colleagues have sufficient numbers to get your point across? Just something to consider. Talk to your union and make sure their position is crystal clear and they will cover you against legal action and fines if it so transpires.

All the best for your PIA on the weekend and I hope management gets your message loud and clear. Itís time and I know the overwhelming majority of QF pilots hope for a good outcome for you.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 11th Dec 2019 at 12:20.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 12:52
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They are all fair points, and sitting here on the outside looking at the workings of industrial action that just won't shape the group, but the entire industry moving forward for everyone, I think it's definitely something taking an interest in and supporting if that way inclined.

Would I potentially be the test dummy for a "up to" 12.6k fine? Hard to say, but I don't agree with AIPA's advice which is questionable v the FWC site, but I am sure their interpretation will be justified somehow. The advice does not add up and raises more questions than gives answers.


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Old 11th Dec 2019, 14:30
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Originally Posted by Paddleboat
So has Joyce gotten to AIPA? Received an email stating that AIPA has advised anyone who joined AFAP on or after Nov 18 (when the ballot was made) will not be protected during PIA. Why are they now acting against the interests of the JQ pilot group? Is the purpose to drive a wedge between what is for the first time, an effectively unified pilot body??
To answer these (rhetorical) questions youíd probably need to get in touch with the AIPA Jetstar reps whoíve resigned their positions and joined the AFAP. Allegedly, they did so in order to be a part of the forthcoming PIA having been effectively prevented from conducting their own ballot by the AIPA hierarchy (for entirely rational reasons if your membership is overwhelmingly comprised of QF LH and SH pilots).
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 19:18
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Originally Posted by StudentInDebt

To answer these (rhetorical) questions youíd probably need to get in touch with the AIPA Jetstar reps whoíve resigned their positions and joined the AFAP. Allegedly, they did so in order to be a part of the forthcoming PIA having been effectively prevented from conducting their own ballot by the AIPA hierarchy (for entirely rational reasons if your membership is overwhelmingly comprised of QF LH and SH pilots).
What rational reasons would have the qf body not support PIA, other than some perceived strategic plan for the aipa com (heh).

However, I would heed the aipa advice and ensure you are actually protected before taking any action - they will be vengeful if not.

Good luck folks
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 20:02
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Iíd like to assure anyone with any angst against AIPA that (legalities aside) all Qf pilots (not just AIPA) would be wishing JQ guys & gals nothing but the very best. Complaints against AIPA have never been that it lacks empathy for the plight of any pilot, or indeed person who has an issue with Qf Group management.
Particularly the newly elected members of COM would be doing everything they can to legally assist the plight of JQ drivers. If something appears strange, there will be a very good reason and be very confident it would have nothing to do with selling anyone down the river. I have the highest respect for all the new COM members I know and have known for years - if push came to shove I canít imagine them not putting the interests of others before their own.

As everyone has said - best of luck, the thoughts of many are with you.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 20:23
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Ditto. 10 years ago there was a lot of anger from both pilot groups, unfortunately directed at each other (guilty as charged) when the real target should have been QF management.

wish you nothing but the best of luck, I can only hope AIPA isnít far away from following the same path for SH pilots. Shame itís not at the same time.

all the best.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 20:29
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Iíve got to agree with Vjet, there is huge support for Jetstar Pilots, remember in 2011 we were going through the same thing and it wasnít a pleasant time.

Qantas pilots gain nothing by Jetstar Pilots not getting any improvements in terms and conditions, the better Jetstar do the easier it is for Mainline Pilots to get an improvement or even just retain conditions. Iím no fan of AIPA, but I think the idea of them trying to derail any action by Jetstar Pilots for the benefit of Joyce and co to be laughable. There is no love for his management style I can assure you.

The FWA website is notoriously short on detail regarding PIA, you have to delve into the act to get the details, and to be honest as a pilot I wouldnít be trusting a website over advice from lawyers from a union. Iím not saying either union is correct, but if it was me Iíd want to see some kind of proof from both unions before I put my career on the line.

Best of luck with the week, and remember, by turning this into a union vs union battle, instead of an employee vs company battle, you are playing right into managements hands.

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Old 11th Dec 2019, 22:18
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Are you blokes really that thick? AIPA sends an email to its Jetstar members, warning them against doing something stupid, that could cost them not only money but their job, and you move to criticise them on this forum. If this is the intelligence of Jetstar pilots on display here, you guys are doomed. Good luck with it all.
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 22:35
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What AIPA fail to realise is that these tactics designed to destabilise the AFAP's agenda has actually had the opposite effect. What little AIPA membership that existed at JQ have moved to AFAP due to the stance that has been taken throughout this whole process. Been a long time coming, but the majority of JQ pilots have now finally seen the light. They have AIPA to thank for that
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Old 11th Dec 2019, 23:32
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Originally Posted by Fatguyinalittlecoat
Are you blokes really that thick? AIPA sends an email to its Jetstar members, warning them against doing something stupid, that could cost them not only money but their job, and you move to criticise them on this forum. If this is the intelligence of Jetstar pilots on display here, you guys are doomed. Good luck with it all.
Whilst likely true, that's a little harshly put. How about we say AIPA acted in good faith and whilst no doubt some people would see the worst in their actions it would have been sent with the very best of intentions.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Stressful time, careful thought needed.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:02
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Apologies, it seems I’ve poured petrol on the flames of division rather than water.

I’m sure the AIPA advice to members is well intentioned. I’m also sure that the decision not to go down the PIA route has been made in the interests of its’ wider membership, sometimes it’s better to keep your powder dry.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:11
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Re the AFAP email being shared around. Who else finds it a but rich of the AFAP to be claiming that this action by the JQ pilots will be to the benefit of AIPA members (read QF pilots) after all the damage they did over the art 15 years. As though we should be thankful they are standing up for us. Rewriting history perhaps.

I wish JQ pilots the best of luck, but seriously, that is laughable.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:18
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I don’t share the belief that AIPA and AFAP are best of friends and just looking out for each other. I am not a member of either but was flying with an AIPA member recently who spent most of the flight telling me how he hoped that AFAP would get taken to the cleaners for their ‘rediculous’ demands. He is shortly to join Qantas mainline and said that his mates in Qantas were openly seeing this as an opportunity to get some 787 flying back to Mainline and AIPA was keen on offering to pick up the Jetstar 787 flying when they priced themselves out of the low cost market. Now I am not saying this kind of attitude is prevelent in the majority but the whole ‘we are all friends and supportive’ is a bit of a stretch. I pointed out to this young guy that this sort of attitude is exactly the kind of bull**** the managers want to cultivate and the fractured pilot group is detrimental to everyone, it was a quiet flight home.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:54
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If JQ price themself out of the market, I find it hard that QF will pick it up. Just look at the customer base, they will be priced out by QF due to affordability and therefore it’s gone.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:54
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his mates in Qantas were openly seeing this as an opportunity to get some 787 flying back to Mainline and AIPA was keen on offering to pick up the Jetstar 787 flying when they priced themselves out of the low cost market.
Absolute horse sh#t
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 00:59
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Originally Posted by hotnhigh
Absolute horse sh#t
Agreed.

As a QF pilot and a member of AIPA, I wish the Jetstar pilots all the best in their dispute with management.
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