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Jetstar EBA 2019

Old 12th Dec 2019, 13:39
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Sorry to be argumentative, but your tone triggered me to question what you said. I doubt it’s factually correct
Question all you want my friend. As for being factually correct, well that remains to be seen. Doesnt change the fact that many believe that sinister intentions were behind the advice
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 13:46
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Even Jetstar understand that members who joined after November 18 can engage in PIA.


2 Eligibility

You are ONLY eligible to engage in the Protected Industrial Action if:

· you are a member of the AFAP ; and

· the AFAP is your bargaining representative.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 17:34
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So....what exactly is the objective of this PIA?
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 19:27
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AIPA legal has always been very good. This sort of thing would be referred to a senior industrial barrister.

QF/JQ May not go after individual pilots who joined AFAP after the ballot. But they sure as **** would look into the AFAP Exec and JQ faction for organising and coercion.

Div 3/4 P340 onwards of the Act (page414). P176 might be worth a look too.

I can’t imagine the intent of the Act is to facilitate employees Monty Pythonesque rushing from one union to another, after a PIA ballot. If there was any doubt, perhaps Q would consider running an action anyway. Make things very real for the AFAP leadership, probably stand them down or lock em’ out because of the stress.

guessing Keith’s email came from JQ. See how they have made a distinction between being a “member of AFAP” and “bargaining representative”. There might be a reason for that.


Yep, what is the objective?? Apart from running it at Xmas?



Last edited by Iron Bar; 12th Dec 2019 at 20:47.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 20:10
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1. With colleagues like some of you, Joyce doesn’t have to do much at all. Half the work is already done. The travelling public are more supportive of this action.

2. Objective = to better the conditions of the employees.

3. Has anyone talked about the fact that QF and Alliance will (may) be picking up some of the flying? Yes, I understand it’s illegal to refuse.


All the best to our Jetstar colleagues, I and everyone I fly with truly hope you come out on top. Please stick together.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 20:46
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Originally Posted by dashate
1. With colleagues like some of you, Joyce doesn’t have to do much at all. Half the work is already done. The travelling public are more supportive of this action.

2. Objective = to better the conditions of the employees.

3. Has anyone talked about the fact that QF and Alliance will (may) be picking up some of the flying? Yes, I understand it’s illegal to refuse.


All the best to our Jetstar colleagues, I and everyone I fly with truly hope you come out on top. Please stick together.
QF, QLink and Alliance are all covering the flying.

The ex JQNZ Dash8's are heading to MEL this weekend to cover some flying as well.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 21:38
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Originally Posted by Going Nowhere
The ex JQNZ Dash8's are heading to MEL this weekend to cover some flying as well.
Yep, looks like TQL/TQM head down this arvo. Slated in for some Melbourne to Launy runs tomorrow. Just like old times in the classic club.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 21:55
  #268 (permalink)  
 
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QF, QLink and Alliance are all covering the flying.
Some of the flying.

Last edited by gordonfvckingramsay; 13th Dec 2019 at 00:00.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 22:16
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What a pack of selfish a/holes to pull this stunt at Xmas disrupting kids and families and using them as hostages.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 22:21
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Who - management?
I agree - they could have easily signed off on the proposed EBA and avoided all of this conflict and upcoming financial impact.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 22:43
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Originally Posted by Johhny Utah
Who - management?
I agree - they could have easily signed off on the proposed EBA and avoided all of this conflict and upcoming financial impact.
Of course, but doing so would penalise those who, in an airline who spend their waking hour making tensions, complexity and generally upsetting everyone.
IR is the only "growth" area in Little Napoleon's reign.
That the company spends a fortune to save a dime is lost on the emperor and his hall of mirrors.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 00:04
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Originally Posted by Iron Bar
AIPA legal has always been very good.


Comedy gold.

Originally Posted by Iron Bar
This sort of thing would be referred to a senior industrial barrister.
If AIPA referred this sort of thing to a senior industrial barrister, don’t you think they should have published that advice? Here’s a tip, they didn’t.

Originally Posted by Iron Bar
QF/JQ May not go after individual pilots who joined AFAP after the ballot. But they sure as **** would look into the AFAP Exec and JQ faction for organising and coercion.
On this we can agree. There are large penalties for false and misleading statements from unions. The AFAP have stood by their advice, consulted external experts, and published that advice. False and misleading statements are a two way street, you may want to seek qualified legal advice on what AIPA is publishing.

Originally Posted by Iron Bar
Div 3/4 P340 onwards of the Act (page414). P176 might be worth a look too.
Bush lawyer 101, thanks for the tip. There are a few other pages that are worth a look, along with a few opinions and rulings from commissioners. But hey, why broaden your horizons when a narrow interpretation suits your purpose. Selective quoting is the best friend of the ignorant.

Originally Posted by Iron Bar
I can’t imagine the intent of the Act is to facilitate employees Monty Pythonesque rushing from one union to another, after a PIA ballot. If there was any doubt, perhaps Q would consider running an action anyway. Make things very real for the AFAP leadership, probably stand them down or lock em’ out because of the stress.
You probably should read the advice the AFAP received from Slater and Gordon. It explains quiet succinctly why employees are allowed to join PIA well after a ballot order has been issued. Alternatively, you can hold court and regale us with your superior opinions, I'm not sure who wants to listen to you.

Originally Posted by Iron Bar
guessing Keith’s email came from JQ. See how they have made a distinction between being a “member of AFAP” and “bargaining representative”. There might be a reason for that.
Genius. What gave it away, the bit where I stated “even Jetstar”

Originally Posted by Iron Bar
Yep, what is the objective?? Apart from running it at Xmas?
Hardly surprising AIPA doesn’t know what the objective of PIA is. It’s only run one PIA campaign in its 30 year history. I'm sure the Jetstar pilots will be in touch if they consider a red tie campaign.



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Old 13th Dec 2019, 00:36
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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2 Eligibility

You are ONLY eligible to engage in the Protected Industrial Action if:

· you are a member of the AFAP ; and

· the AFAP is your bargaining representative.
So if you are an AIPA member and an AFAP member, who is your bargaining representative?
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 03:10
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Well Keith, AFAP and Slater & Gordon, glad it’s not me being asked to rely on any of that advice.

Good luck with the action, going to be an interesting weekend.



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Old 13th Dec 2019, 08:22
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Getting interesting. Latest email.

Originally Posted by The JQ Executive Remuneration Maximization Team
Under the Fair Work act 2009, the company may withhold all pay otherwise due to an employee on any day that the employee engages in protected industrial action in the form of a partial work ban.

This letter constitutes notification to you in accordance with section blah blah of the FWA 2009 that Jetstar refuses to accept the performance of any work by you until you are prepared to perform all your normal duties.

Accordingly, if you engage in one or both of the partial work bans listed above, you will not be entitled to any payment for the entire duration of the partial work ban - The period from 0001 on 14 Dec 19 to 2359 20 Dec 2019.

Last edited by Paddleboat; 13th Dec 2019 at 08:37.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 08:41
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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This is getting interesting. So what they are saying is that even when you turn up to work during the PIA period you will be doing so for free!

Last edited by Ollie Onion; 13th Dec 2019 at 09:00.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 09:06
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I can understand witholding pay during the stop work periods, but not paying someone who is choosing to work to rule? How is that legal?
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 09:12
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I can understand witholding pay during the stop work periods, but not paying someone who is choosing to work to rule? How is that legal?
Presumably Jetstar has legal ‘advice’ (probably from Slater and Gordon) that they’re on safe ground. This is advice, not a court ruling, so take it as you like it.

Not getting paid for a week? I’d personally find that really stressful. Personally, I’d probably be unfit to work. Only speaking for myself, of course.

Very best of luck for the weekend ladies and gents. Stay the course, stay united.

Last edited by DirectAnywhere; 13th Dec 2019 at 09:44.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 09:45
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https://www.linkedin.com/posts/drton...579724288-flAn

Jetstar (JQ) is facing significant issues at the moment, with a part of its labour force requesting a pay rise. JQ management argues this will increase costs and thus fares, to the detriment of the public. Let's analyse this.

Firstly, in competitive markets, nominal wage rates increase with Product Inflation + Productivity. Qantas Group labour productivity has increased at a CAGR of 3.8% since 2005. This is group productivity - the airline doesn't split out JQ productivity. Product Inflation is not the CPI. It is the yield (RASK) growth of JQ. Over the past 5 years, this has increased by 2.4%.

On the basis of these numbers, one could argue for wage growth materially higher than 4%. If you look at the transport workers and pilots, their cost bases are 10% to 15% of total cost - this is an educated guess. If their weighted average wage growth demands are, say, 7%, this represents a JQ cost increase of around 1%. If JQ costs go up by 1% how much will fares go up? A model of JQ RASK indicates on average that 46% of JQ cost increases are passed through to yields. This means we would expect JQ fares to increase by 0.5%.

This means that on SYD-MEL we would expect JQ fares to go up by less than $1.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 09:51
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Considering the vertically challenged one closed down Qantas Mainline because his pilots had the utter audacity to wear red ties and make banal PA’s to passengers explaining their issues during their Industrial action a few years ago , what in God’s name is the unctuous Leprechaun going to do when staff at his pride and joy actually undertake stop work meetings ?
How much Amazing profit ? is the Amazing business going to lose ?
On another note , good luck and happy hunting to all employees downtrodden under Joyce’s pixy boots ,may the wind be at your back and the road rise to meet your feet !
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