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Qantas Recruitment

Old 8th Feb 2023, 03:51
  #3141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
Over the next 10 years the number of Mainline domestic pilots will become smaller and smaller.
Not according to forecast recruitment vs retirements for the next 5 years at least. Mainline pilot establishment planned to be about 30% bigger than early 2022 levels.

​​​​​​​The NEOs will still fly the trunk capital city routes at peak times but A220s will be a much more common sight.​​​​​​​
The reason why they're getting a 200 seat aircraft to replace a 174 seat one is forecast passenger growth. None of the major airports in Australia, with the exception of Perth, are planning for new terminal space in the next decade or so. There won't be enough room to park a greater number of A220s in somewhere like Sydney T3. They need bigger aircraft. Added to that the A220 is being operated, for now, by a lower paid regional carrier, which will always suffer long term pilot shortage issues hampering their growth. I could foresee that in the longer term if the company did want to integrate A220 flying on existing mainline routes the option of it being integrated into mainline would have to be considered.

​​​​​​​If your a pilot wanting to try international for a few years then settle on the domestic fleet and have a family your applying to the wrong company by applying for mainline.
Interesting point but in all my years of aviation the propensity to have a family or not has no bearing on whether you migrate to international or domestic flying. For a lot of people international rosters fit more into their chosen family lifestyle.
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 04:30
  #3142 (permalink)  
 
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Some good points made there. It’ll certainly be interesting to see how it pans out over the next 10 years. New Sydney Airport will change things.

Based on tonnage vs $ (roughly) my understanding is that the A220 pilots at QF will be paid something similar to an A321 QF pilot.

A220 70T Capt on a little over $200K vs A321 101T Capt on $270K.

The 220s will never be operated under the mainline banner.
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 05:46
  #3143 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
It came close in around 2017, I was at a meeting were some very senior managers said that Joyce wanted Group Seniority to address retention of pilots.

That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.

I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award.
This is pure garbage.

Regarding a Group seniority list:
- I was on the AIPA committee in 2017 and a Group Opportunity List had long been our stated desire.
- Why would Mainline shoot it down, it doesn’t effect anyone at Mainline negatively so why would they care.
- And finally, as if Joyce gives a sh1t what we wanted. If the CEO wanted a Group list then there would be a Group list today. The bloke locked us out and stood us down, our feelings don’t factor much in his decision making.

As for AIPA not supporting a court case to get Jet Connect equal pay to mainline…. IT WAS AIPA’s COURT CASE!

Do some basic research, AIPA took Qantas to court to get JetConnect covered by Australia industrial law. Ie. put their pilots on the SH EA. It went to the full bench of the FWC and we narrowly lost 2-1. So your assertion is patently absurd.
AIPA Vs Qantas/JetConnect article

Last edited by Beer Baron; 8th Feb 2023 at 06:28.
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 09:54
  #3144 (permalink)  
 
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It came close in around 2017, I was at a meeting were some very senior managers said that Joyce wanted Group Seniority to address retention of pilots. The proposal was a Group List where you are ranked on your date of joining, whenever ANY entity needed to recruit then the positions would be advertised internally and allocated via the Group Seniority number.
I'm fairly certain that the current AIPA President has been advocating a Group Seniority list for a while. If they were Jetstar Senior Managers then you were being lied to. How do I know? Their lips would have been moving. Joyce's solution to the impending pilot shortage was to establish a self-funded cadet scheme at Toowoomba.
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 12:05
  #3145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron
Regarding a Group seniority list:
- Why would Mainline shoot it down, it doesn’t effect anyone at Mainline negatively so why would they care.
What about a 10th year Dash 8 Captain versus a 2nd year QF SO or 7th year QF FO for the next vacancy?
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 12:16
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Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
What about a 10th year Dash 8 Captain versus a 2nd year QF SO or 7th year QF FO for the next vacancy?
There was already a seniority list integration, the Q and A pilots post QF/Australian merger. Was it perfect? No, but integrating lists will never be.

Group seniority will, on the whole, advantage mainline pilots the most, as they have the longest time in the group.

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Old 8th Feb 2023, 14:00
  #3147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EY_Airbus
So how does a highly motivated Aussie individual stuck in the sandpit with a current GCAA medical apply for this position?
Go do your Oz medical with a CASA approved doctor in the UAE, simples!
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 21:00
  #3148 (permalink)  
 
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How a group list should be structured

Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
What about a 10th year Dash 8 Captain versus a 2nd year QF SO or 7th year QF FO for the next vacancy?
A group list should be in the following order

1) Mainline pilots as per their seniority
then,
2) Everyone else in order of date of join

there have been too many people left behind and jaded after being deemed “too valuable” to release whilst they see more junior colleagues allowed to progress their career.

it has cost myself and many others years of seniority and a multitude of 100’s of thousands. Something needs to change not for myself but for sake of future pilots coming through the system.



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Old 8th Feb 2023, 21:08
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Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
What about a 10th year Dash 8 Captain versus a 2nd year QF SO or 7th year QF FO for the next vacancy?
what vacancy do you think a 7th year QF FO would be able to get 😂😂😂
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Old 8th Feb 2023, 22:41
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Originally Posted by RealSatoshi
What about a 10th year Dash 8 Captain versus a 2nd year QF SO or 7th year QF FO for the next vacancy?
It is a hypothetical question as no Group list structure is actually in place but OlliOnion’s post seemed to be about a structure that determines who gets hired into mainline at the bottom rung. So that wouldn’t allow the transfer you suggest.

For a Group list that allowed promotional transfers between entities, you can have an arrangement like DashTrash outlined. On the day it starts all pilots at each entity have priority for promotion within their entity. Everyone hired from then on is on a Group wide DOJ seniority list. Still no disadvantage to current pilots at any entity.

It won’t happen though, as Qantas hate paying for pilots to transfer between aircraft. Tens of thousand of dollars in training costs and months of no or limited productivity. See how they just doubled mainline training freeze periods. Siloed pilot groups on single aircraft types saves money and they don’t care if we like it or not.
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 01:06
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
what vacancy do you think a 7th year QF FO would be able to get 😂😂😂
Who knows...how long does it take in a downturn, for example, to get a P2 seat on the A380...more or less than 7 years?

Originally Posted by Beer Baron
It won’t happen though, as Qantas hate paying for pilots to transfer between aircraft. Tens of thousand of dollars in training costs and months of no or limited productivity. See how they just doubled mainline training freeze periods. Siloed pilot groups on single aircraft types saves money and they don’t care if we like it or not.
Indeed, this ^ here ^ the real reason it'll probably never fly (unfortunately)
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 03:05
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Originally Posted by Beer Baron

It won’t happen though, as Qantas hate paying for pilots to transfer between aircraft. Tens of thousand of dollars in training costs and months of no or limited productivity. See how they just doubled mainline training freeze periods. Siloed pilot groups on single aircraft types saves money and they don’t care if we like it or not.
Or if it does come to fruition there would be trade offs to offset the cost of training, like bonds, type freezes, financial penalties for moving, reduced wages etc.
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 07:39
  #3153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Or if it does come to fruition...
Maybe it's time one of the Group Companies' pilots puts it on their EBA wish list in order to get the ball rolling up against the 3% group wage policy
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 08:13
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Forgive my ignorance, but is there anything actually stopping them from removing the 'link' from the network 320s or the upcoming NJS 220s and running them as 'Qantas' branded?
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 09:27
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Just wack a MEL on the paint work. NEF the **** out of the “link”
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 10:28
  #3156 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pinkpanther1
Forgive my ignorance, but is there anything actually stopping them from removing the 'link' from the network 320s or the upcoming NJS 220s and running them as 'Qantas' branded?
No, they could take paint over the ‘Link’ on a Dash 8 if they wanted to, or a JQ aircraft, or even an EFA one. They already have in a way with Jetconnect.

There’s 717s and E190s running around with business class seats on capital city routes with the word ‘Link’ on the side, so not much difference anymore.



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Old 9th Feb 2023, 10:43
  #3157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
No, they could take paint over the ‘Link’ on a Dash 8 if they wanted to, or a JQ aircraft, or even an EFA one. They already have in a way with Jetconnect.

There’s 717s and E190s running around with business class seats on capital city routes with the word ‘Link’ on the side, so not much difference anymore.
And the 190s curiously use the “Qantas” call sign, unlike any other subsidiary (apart from Jitconnict)
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 10:57
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer
And the 190s curiously use the “Qantas” call sign, unlike any other subsidiary (apart from Jitconnict)
And EFA and Atlas.
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Old 9th Feb 2023, 11:38
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Originally Posted by Bug Smasher Smasher
And EFA and Atlas.
Freighters don’t count
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Old 10th Feb 2023, 11:17
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I can already hear the excited network pilots over the possibility of entirely stealing the mainline RPT network out west for half the wage. Wooh, let’s fly a hand me down airbus for $120k as an FO.

Fun fact, the cleaners they fly out to the mines who go out to scrub toilet bowls at mine sites literally get paid more than Network FOs. And before any of you pipe up — go enquire about it on your next day-stay.
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