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Qantas Recruitment

Old 15th Apr 2023, 04:52
  #3341 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
Only on min guarantee. Rostered hours always 65-70 per month. It'll be $80-100k more at the end of the day.



That's only 575 flying hours in a year, I think it's expected an airline pilot will have to work more than that. With a low minimum guarantee the SH contract gives you flexibility to drop flying and take more time off.
Are NJS Pilots working the same sort of hours?

Perhaps these 2 “mainline” gigs are chalk and cheese and the remuneration reflects that. Ie: QF SH get paid more over a year but are working hard for it whereas the NJS Bin Chickens get paid less (albeit not tonne vs $) but spend a lot of time relaxing at home?

I assume it depends on where your based also.
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Old 15th Apr 2023, 07:13
  #3342 (permalink)  
 
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So its completely fair & reasonable for the over 45 year old & over 55 year old brigade to remain SOs decade in / decade out
On the year 12 payscale
& effectively block any new joiners from ever getting an SO seat on the A380 whilst they enjoy $350K plus salaries
That's fair , just and reasonable behaviour ? , and also that is how you run a good commercial airline business is it ?

Aren't there a ton of Ansett 2001 joiners who are still SOing ?

Interesting chappies

But I guess in many ways , we as Aussies are an interesting species

We think we are oh so superior , but the reality is that we ain't the sharpest tools in the shed & are just a little bit off the pace
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Old 15th Apr 2023, 09:37
  #3343 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
Are NJS Pilots working the same sort of hours?

Perhaps these 2 “mainline” gigs are chalk and cheese and the remuneration reflects that. Ie: QF SH get paid more over a year but are working hard for it whereas the NJS Bin Chickens get paid less (albeit not tonne vs $) but spend a lot of time relaxing at home?
NJS rates are Yr 1 FO $143 ph for 65hrs before overtime kicks in. QF 53.4hrs for $209 ph. At 65hrs it's almost 70% more than NJS.

As to what the actual hours each group are working I'm not sure, but I can't imagine too many airlines aren't rostering pilots substantially below maximum hours.

​​​​​​​I assume it depends on where your based also.
QF roster average hours are balanced between bases. The nature of the flying out of each base ebbs and flows but rostered hours are roughly the same.

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Old 15th Apr 2023, 12:49
  #3344 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Makiko
So its completely fair & reasonable for the over 45 year old & over 55 year old brigade to remain SOs decade in / decade out
On the year 12 payscale
& effectively block any new joiners from ever getting an SO seat on the A380 whilst they enjoy $350K plus salaries
That's fair , just and reasonable behaviour ? , and also that is how you run a good commercial airline business is it ?

Aren't there a ton of Ansett 2001 joiners who are still SOing ?

Interesting chappies

But I guess in many ways , we as Aussies are an interesting species

We think we are oh so superior , but the reality is that we ain't the sharpest tools in the shed & are just a little bit off the pace
Seems they are just playing the seniority system to their advantage, a system QF and many airlines around the world put in place to benefit themselves.

Dont cry now when said pilot follows the same rules and decide to take it easy and have outside interests that make money as well.

As somebody famously once said, ‘Hate the game not the player’

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Old 15th Apr 2023, 20:15
  #3345 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs up Why does anyone care? (Makiko?)

As far as HR are concerned, a pilot is just a licensed body in a seat. Seniority serves the corporation more than the individual; pilots are less ‘portable’ to higher-paying jobs in other companies & ‘the market’ is artificially capped/skewed.

So if, while working under a seniority system, an individual defers promotion for any reason like:
- they’re building a house,
- their partner has cancer,
- a child has special needs,
- they need to commute interstate while caring for aging parents,
- they like the fleet they’re already on,
- the work/life balance is their best compromise, or
- the pay is tolerable…..

​​​​​…..why do some infer it’s just laziness/rorting?…. & their ‘inspired’ solution is apparently to pay SOs less. In most companies SOs don’t exist. In most companies, ULH flying is done by multi-Capt & multi-FO crews. Most QF SOs would be FOs in any other company.

…And enough of the hyperbole please
​​​​​ ​​effectively block any new joiners from ever getting an SO seat on the A380
🤔

All pilots join & are obliged to retain a Class 1 medical & appropriate ratings for their job. Thereafter, their career choices are framed by the EA (& seniority system) under which they work. IT’S FAIR! Some aspire to, and achieve, rapid promotion by being portable to other cities or ‘less-desirable’ fleets. Others simply compromise in order to balance life’s competing priorities.

There endeth the lesson.😊

Last edited by Jetsbest; 16th Apr 2023 at 07:48.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 00:22
  #3346 (permalink)  
 
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So its completely fair & reasonable for the over 45 year old & over 55 year old brigade to remain SOs decade in / decade out
On the year 12 payscale
& effectively block any new joiners from ever getting an SO seat on the A380
1. They don’t owe new joiners a 380 seat.
2. By staying as SOs, they’re leaving FO and command slots open for people who would otherwise have to wait longer for them.

Good for everyone, except a new joiner who feels entitled to a 380 SO spot.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 01:12
  #3347 (permalink)  
 
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Why would anyone want to join onto the 380 these days. Rest assured you’ll still be splitting the bill after your 2 beers and a salad. Don’t be fooled, the person sitting next to you in the back will be on more than double your B scale salary.

787 is the only fleet that wages haven’t been pineappled for new joiners…yet that ship looks to have sailed.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 09:12
  #3348 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76
Why would anyone want to join onto the 380 these days. Rest assured you’ll still be splitting the bill after your 2 beers and a salad. Don’t be fooled, the person sitting next to you in the back will be on more than double your B scale salary.

787 is the only fleet that wages haven’t been pineappled for new joiners…yet that ship looks to have sailed.
And the person sitting next to you is the one who decided that it was ok for his/her future colleagues to earn half of them……..that going to lead to some interesting flight deck conversations……kind of ironic considering the amount of times the mainline pilots have referred to the subsidiaries as Sc@bs.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 09:30
  #3349 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76
Why would anyone want to join onto the 380 these days. Rest assured you’ll still be splitting the bill after your 2 beers and a salad. Don’t be fooled, the person sitting next to you in the back will be on more than double your B scale salary.

787 is the only fleet that wages haven’t been pineappled for new joiners…yet that ship looks to have sailed.
The problem is that despite all of this, it's still a better place to work than NJS, Network or Jetstar.
I can't comment in detail on NJS or Network but, Im not sure if financially it makes a huge difference having a career at QF or JQ. (considering quicker upgrades times etc.) But for that money at JQ you'll work tens times harder, be treated like a dog, receive no respect and have to manage with zero operational support from the company on a daily basis.
All this stuff matters to people. QF might not be a great job these days but it's still better than the rest of the group.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 10:28
  #3350 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jetsbest
As far as HR are concerned, a pilot is just a licensed body in a seat.
And yet the ONLY people require to hold any form of qualifications in aviation are pilots and engineers. Every other cohort in the industry, all the way up to the CEO, can rock up and have a crack as long as they can talk someone into appointing them. Pilots (and engineers) actually have to qualify under the law to ply their trade…HR needs to be reminded of this.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 10:43
  #3351 (permalink)  
 
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🙄

Originally Posted by davidclarke
And the person sitting next to you is the one who decided that it was ok for his/her future colleagues to earn half of them……..that going to lead to some interesting flight deck conversations……kind of ironic considering the amount of times the mainline pilots have referred to the subsidiaries as Sc@bs.
Never let facts (industrial threats & thuggery, a vote of +1200 pilots, Covid, etc) get in the way of a bitter misrepresentation of the choices available to current or future employees…. & how many mainline pilots do you actually know? Ugh😖
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 10:44
  #3352 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE
.
QF might not be a great job these days...
Nah, it’s still a great job.

We’re still getting plenty of subsidiaries Captains still coming over as SOs - that speaks volumes.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 10:56
  #3353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
Nah, it’s still a great job.

We’re still getting plenty of subsidiaries Captains still coming over as SOs - that speaks volumes.
And for every one you get, there are 10 times that many who will probably never be released by their respective subsidiaries. The only way out for these guys and girls is to leave the group completely, and in the case of NJS, with shiny new A220 endorsement in hand.
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Old 16th Apr 2023, 23:58
  #3354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre
NJS rates are Yr 1 FO $143 ph for 65hrs before overtime kicks in. QF 53.4hrs for $209 ph. At 65hrs it's almost 70% more than NJS.

As to what the actual hours each group are working I'm not sure, but I can't imagine too many airlines aren't rostering pilots substantially below maximum hours.



QF roster average hours are balanced between bases. The nature of the flying out of each base ebbs and flows but rostered hours are roughly the same.
Brisbane based 717 captain, haven't flown more than 40hrs a month for since COVID.
I suspect that will change in a year or so.
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Old 17th Apr 2023, 02:26
  #3355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RENURPP
Brisbane based 717 captain, haven't flown more than 40hrs a month for since COVID.
I suspect that will change in a year or so.
So basically if you’re a family man/lady/other and want to be home most* nights then you’re better off working for NJS and getting a quick or DE CMD and $200K a year rather then working for shorthaul and working your ring off and getting average $180K a year (sometime less, sometimes more).

I’d bet money on it that if NJS pilots don’t have the company support now they will once the new toy comes along so there won’t be much difference from that point of view.

The Shorthaul EA is confusing but can they say no to roster changes a week before? Looks like NJS pilots can so that’s a big benefit from a family point of view.
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Old 17th Apr 2023, 07:54
  #3356 (permalink)  
 
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There is value in being a LongHaul International Airline Pilot, and only Qantas Mainline gives you the Choice (i know Jetstar have 787’s but to get there is virtually impossible). I know many will say they don’t care, but they are also the ones that say they will get experience and then go to emirates/Qatar etc………

If you don’t want to be a SO, you can still go to QF, clench your teeth and enjoy the experience until you can go to SH and be home every night. Then, in 15 years when the kids couldn’t give a rats if you’re there or not anymore, you can go to LH and enjoy the perks of that lifestyle. With the other outfits, you can’t. Pretty simple. Best of luck.
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Old 17th Apr 2023, 13:05
  #3357 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
Nah, it’s still a great job.

We’re still getting plenty of subsidiaries Captains still coming over as SOs - that speaks volumes.
I think you misunderstanding the point here - being a Qantas So is better than being a subsidiary CPT, that speaks volumes about being in the subsidiaries in Australia, but be under no illusion that Qantas has been third rate for a long time.
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Old 17th Apr 2023, 15:54
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To summarise

Qantas is ****, but the least **** in Aus.
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Old 18th Apr 2023, 21:16
  #3359 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
So basically if you’re a family man/lady/other and want to be home most* nights then you’re better off working for NJS and getting a quick or DE CMD and $200K a year rather then working for shorthaul and working your ring off and getting average $180K a year (sometime less, sometimes more).

I’d bet money on it that if NJS pilots don’t have the company support now they will once the new toy comes along so there won’t be much difference from that point of view.

The Shorthaul EA is confusing but can they say no to roster changes a week before? Looks like NJS pilots can so that’s a big benefit from a family point of view.
The SH FO average wage for FY2019 was 199k. I’ll bet that’s gone up this FY with the pay rises since then.
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Old 19th Apr 2023, 06:41
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Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
So basically if you’re a family man/lady/other and want to be home most* nights then you’re better off working for NJS
Ummmmm, not quite. From what I’m told the crew are away a LOT, upwards of 10 overnights per month, some as high as 14. Min days off at home, then you’re away again. Worse than long haul lifestyle on worse than short haul conditions. Not very family friendly.
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