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Qantas Recruitment

Old 3rd Feb 2023, 11:08
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Does anyone have any information regarding courses after the February one?
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Old 3rd Feb 2023, 14:11
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Originally Posted by Jc31 View Post
rumor is that 2023 recruiting will be almost entirely internal applicants.
To be replaced by externals coming from where...150+ Cadets?

Once QF Mainline figures this out, recruitment from internals will grind to a slow halt in favour of externals so as not to jeopardise the entire machine. Easier to convince someone from REX or VA to join Mainline, than doing same to join any of the QantasLink or Jetstar group companies.
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Old 3rd Feb 2023, 22:22
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Originally Posted by RealSatoshi View Post
To be replaced by externals coming from where...150+ Cadets?

Once QF Mainline figures this out, recruitment from internals will grind to a slow halt in favour of externals so as not to jeopardise the entire machine. Easier to convince someone from REX or VA to join Mainline, than doing same to join any of the QantasLink or Jetstar group companies.

Not necessarily, if the Group establishes a pathway from the likes of Jetstar to Mainline then that would drive external recruitment. It is in Qantasí interest to show that internal candidates are preferred over externals. We are edging towards the day when only internal candidates will make it into mainline and the only way in is to join a Qantas Group entity.
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Old 3rd Feb 2023, 22:35
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We absolutely are not edging in that direction at all. These clowns donít want career opportunities. They want you stuck. The seniority system ensures that. Itís a long time to command in mainline, heíll itís along time to wide body FO. They will never have a system where group pilots work together rather than in competition. Sorry, thatís a fact. Iíd love it if we were moving to a system where internals could move around entities to find a job that suited them best, I think that would be a group seniorityÖ.and we wonít even get the various workgroups to agree on that, let alone the management morons. One only has to look at the success rate of those coming from JQ to mainline under the MOU. If youíre in the group, there should be no testing at all. Should be simple. Yet all these rules have been imposed, and applicants have failed. Canít believe it.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 00:32
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
Not necessarily, if the Group establishes a pathway from the likes of Jetstar to Mainline then that would drive external recruitment. It is in Qantasí interest to show that internal candidates are preferred over externals. We are edging towards the day when only internal candidates will make it into mainline and the only way in is to join a Qantas Group entity.
Pretty Much.

From what I believe, even though in their ideal world HR would love every pilot in a subsidiary to remain put, theyíve now realised that internal candidates arenít going to sit patiently on the hold file and wait months or even years to get a start date, and then lose several hundred seniority numbers to be behind external candidates. People talk, and if word gets out that being in a subsidiary is a handbrake to getting into mainline they wonít join a subsidiary, or will leave to other companies if progression is glacial.

Of course they were warned about this some time ago, but until it became a reality they didnít do anything about it.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 01:37
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng View Post
we wonít even get the various workgroups to agree on that, let alone the management morons. One only has to look at the success rate of those coming from JQ to mainline under the MOU. If youíre in the group, there should be no testing at all. Should be simple. Yet all these rules have been imposed, and applicants have failed. Canít believe it.
You are quite right. F/Oís from QF used to be able to go to JQ as a Captain under the MOU. But after several years they changed the rules and you had to be a JQ F/O for minimum 6 months and jump through a bunch of hoops before starting command training.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 03:00
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Originally Posted by RealSatoshi View Post
To be replaced by externals coming from where...150+ Cadets?

Once QF Mainline figures this out, recruitment from internals will grind to a slow halt in favour of externals so as not to jeopardise the entire machine. Easier to convince someone from REX or VA to join Mainline, than doing same to join any of the QantasLink or Jetstar group companies.
The problem with that is that if you make the other group airlines any less appealing than they already are, then you will have an even bigger problem attracting suitable candidates, especially those with experience.

The Dash 8 operation, for example, can not survive on cadets alone moving forward.
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 03:38
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Originally Posted by MaxAuto View Post
Does anyone have any information regarding courses after the February one?
Few days ago was told only Feb filled. So perhaps no March course? Has anyone heard for March?
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Old 4th Feb 2023, 06:20
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Have any internals even been given an answer despite being advised that they'd hear by the end of the year? Even what few internals they do take, you are going to be behind 100 other virgn, Rex Cathay peeps etc. anyone's guess when qlink, EFA or JQ will release you, What's the point? Just another kick in the teeth by a group that couldn't care less about it's staff.
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Old 5th Feb 2023, 00:31
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Anyone getting in now will have to face the deciosn of never holding a command at Qantas mainline.

For some thatís not an issueÖfor others thatís a problem.

Obviously this isnít a new issue but joining the wave post COVID in an airline with little to no expansion over the next decade is the harsh reality.
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Old 5th Feb 2023, 00:33
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE View Post
Have any internals even been given an answer despite being advised that they'd hear by the end of the year? Even what few internals they do take, you are going to be behind 100 other virgn, Rex Cathay peeps etc. anyone's guess when qlink, EFA or JQ will release you, What's the point? Just another kick in the teeth by a group that couldn't care less about it's staff.
Internals will trickle through this year at a very limited rate, need to keep the dream alive for the majority of others. Lucky if all have started by the end of 2024. Just another way of being screwed by Qantas.

canít wait for EA negations.. 🍍
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Old 5th Feb 2023, 00:51
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Originally Posted by Fujiroll76 View Post
Anyone getting in now will have to face the deciosn of never holding a command at Qantas mainline.

For some thatís not an issueÖfor others thatís a problem.

Obviously this isnít a new issue but joining the wave post COVID in an airline with little to no expansion over the next decade is the harsh reality.
Depends on oneís age, and how picky they want to be with bids.

I would agree that maybe someone 50+ is not going to hold a command. 45 and under though, I would say thereís still a good chance of at least a narrow body command. 30-35 and under will get a chance at a widebody command.

I would probably safely say that the days of expanding Jetstar are done and dusted, and with more demand for point to point travel in the future, I see there being a good chance of at least some expansion of mainline.

But, all this depends on how pessimistic or optimistic you want to be.

On the other hand, you could just go and enjoy it for what it is, a job where you get to travel.
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Old 5th Feb 2023, 01:30
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From personal experience, life as an FO in a legacy carrier beats the life of a Captain at a low cost carrier……. In my opinion of course.
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 07:56
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
From personal experience, life as an FO in a legacy carrier beats the life of a Captain at a low cost carrierÖÖ. In my opinion of course.
I'm not saying it isn't. I don't personally know, but I would imagine you'd still get better pay and treatment as a QF WB FO then a JQ Captain.
But, there is a huge amount of movement at JQ with rumours of more to come. A whole lot of new airbus commands and no doubt that will Lead to 787 FO spots. More LRs and XLRs to come etc. I would imagine there are a lot of Airbus FOs looking at the superior lifestyle on the 787.
​​​​​A JQ 787 FO v QF 737 FO wouldn't be that far apart on terms and conditions surely? (Assuming JQ doesn't scrap the 787 operation of course...)
Any FO close to those positions has a big decision to make. Joining QF below 100 externals and onto the "B" scale isn't exactly exciting. Even for those who do decide to go, they are jaded with the company before they even start!
If Qantas had shown even the slightest respect to it's group pilot and:
1. Prioritised group hirings over external recruitment
2. Offered seniority numbers to those who can't be immediately released by their group airline
3. Not hired internal candidates onto the new rubbish B scale for SOs,
No one would be complaining. But as been demonstrated numerous times, no one in management could give a rats.
​​​​​
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Old 6th Feb 2023, 20:35
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Originally Posted by cLeArIcE View Post
I'm not saying it isn't. I don't personally know, but I would imagine you'd still get better pay and treatment as a QF WB FO then a JQ Captain.
But, there is a huge amount of movement at JQ with rumours of more to come. A whole lot of new airbus commands and no doubt that will Lead to 787 FO spots. More LRs and XLRs to come etc. I would imagine there are a lot of Airbus FOs looking at the superior lifestyle on the 787.
​​​​​A JQ 787 FO v QF 737 FO wouldn't be that far apart on terms and conditions surely? (Assuming JQ doesn't scrap the 787 operation of course...)
Any FO close to those positions has a big decision to make. Joining QF below 100 externals and onto the "B" scale isn't exactly exciting. Even for those who do decide to go, they are jaded with the company before they even start!
If Qantas had shown even the slightest respect to it's group pilot and:
1. Prioritised group hirings over external recruitment
2. Offered seniority numbers to those who can't be immediately released by their group airline
3. Not hired internal candidates onto the new rubbish B scale for SOs,
No one would be complaining. But as been demonstrated numerous times, no one in management could give a rats.
​​​​​
canít disagree with any of that, would have been a show of good faith to give internals seniority numbers based on acceptance date. That would have required agreement of the Mainline pilot group though and we all know they will NEVER go out of their way to help out group pilots.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 03:48
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
That would have required agreement of the Mainline pilot group though and we all know they will NEVER go out of their way to help out group pilots.
Ollie Iím sure youíre a decent person, and would go out of your way to help every other group pilot, however saying stuff like that is why the IR strategy of divide and conquer works so well against us.



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Old 7th Feb 2023, 20:35
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A former much maligned president of AIPA pushed a group seniority list.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 21:26
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It came close in around 2017, I was at a meeting were some very senior managers said that Joyce wanted Group Seniority to address retention of pilots. The proposal was a Group List where you are ranked on your date of joining, whenever ANY entity needed to recruit then the positions would be advertised internally and allocated via the Group Seniority number.

Only when all positions were allocated could roles be advertised externally to fill the gaps that were left. It would have resulted in ALL mainline jobs going to internal candidates ( probably) and all jobs into the group via the ‘less’ popular group companies. Advantage would have been certainty of movement for internal candidates and certainty of career path for new join externals I.e may have to start in Network but I know I will have access to other opportunities.

That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.

I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award. Now this isn’t exclusive to Qantas, it is a sign that Qantas’ IR strategy has worked perfectly when one union won’t cooperate with another as a matter of principal.

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Old 7th Feb 2023, 21:47
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Will any of those feelings change now that AIPA is making a play for subsidiary pilot membership? Iíd hope itís not another split for the group to exploit.
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Old 7th Feb 2023, 22:56
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
It came close in around 2017, I was at a meeting were some very senior managers said that Joyce wanted Group Seniority to address retention of pilots. The proposal was a Group List where you are ranked on your date of joining, whenever ANY entity needed to recruit then the positions would be advertised internally and allocated via the Group Seniority number.

Only when all positions were allocated could roles be advertised externally to fill the gaps that were left. It would have resulted in ALL mainline jobs going to internal candidates ( probably) and all jobs into the group via the Ďlessí popular group companies. Advantage would have been certainty of movement for internal candidates and certainty of career path for new join externals I.e may have to start in Network but I know I will have access to other opportunities.

That was as far as it it went because guess what, it got shot down by Mainline unions and the company dropped the idea in favour of the current system. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, simple as that.

I was also at a meeting where the head of AIPA shot down supporting a Jetconnect court case for equal pay to the mainline pilots as it was their position not to support any pilot flying a Qantas Branded Aircraft unless they were employed on the Mainline contract. So you can call me sceptical if you like but I have seen AIPA give the middle finger to group pilots on a number of occasions where there may have been some significant benefits for the group at nil cost to the Mainline Award. Now this isnít exclusive to Qantas, it is a sign that Qantasí IR strategy has worked perfectly when one union wonít cooperate with another as a matter of principal.
how do you support a court case for a group of pilots you donít represent? Iím calling bullshit.
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